The decline of FG?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861346#Comment_122861346

Yeah, sure the groups can engage in democratic politics, but surely, even they shouldn't be putting forward candidates who have been convicted. This isn't about political parties, this is about individuals. You seem to think that the GFA gave a free pass to every thug who claimed a good republican label for his thuggery.

Danzy

I think it is up to the public alone to decide, if someone has a conviction or not they should still be allowed run.

I haven't Called for McGahon to not run, though i think little of him and even less of his Uncle Brendan who was as low a man that ever crawled the corridors of Leinster hse.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861375#Comment_122861375

No.
You have convicted people on foot of allegations - not me.

Conflict/war goes hand in hand with 'thuggish' behaviour by all sides engaged in that conflict/war. All sides including the Irish government engaged in thuggish behaviour, it goes with the territory.

Your problem and FG's problem here is that they have been hoist by their own petard and high moral grounding. All you can do is point over there.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861446#Comment_122861446

McGahon was cleared of offences by a court, found innocent, and you are here demanding he step down because of what he did. That is the definition of convicting on foot of an allegation!!

Don't recall Pearse Doherty gaining his public order conviction for fighting in a war against the British. As for Ellis, he is one of the most evil men on this island.

I am not calling for any of them to step down from the election, or be deselected by their party - you are! And you are reserving your ire for the one who was found innocent, while ignoring those convicted.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861510#Comment_122861510

McGahon was cleared of offences by a court, found innocent, and you are here demanding he step down because of what he did. That is the definition of convicting on foot of an allegation!!

Where have I demanded 'he step down'?
A court of this state found that he was 65% liable for the altercation and also liable for 39,000 euros for the injuries he caused. That is not 'me' making a finding.

I have called out FG hypocrisy on this and the O'Brien incident not for anyone to 'step down'.

You are making stuff up here.

pureza

well I think that on November 30th when SF get into power that they should add coverage of McGahon and Pierse Doherty’s loutish behaviour prosecution to their investigations of RTE News coverage on Gaza to see if it met Belfasts requirements

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122860822#Comment_122860822

Regardless of the verdict, he still assaulted Breen White. Even his own party leader now is starting to go against him

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41519531.html

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861799#Comment_122861799

"Regardless of the verdit"

You really haven't a clue about the legal system works.

THe link is outdated is irrelevant, don't bother tagging me again with such nonsense.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861829#Comment_122861829

The 'legal system' that found he was 65% liable and forced him to pay 39,000 for the injuries he caused?

You can stand on your head claiming this is trivial but it is. with other stuff tumbling out, a dominant part of the campaign and has FG on the backfoot with not only SF questioning it.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861880#Comment_122861880

I would rather stick to the policies, but I dont think SF are in moral position to question anybodies behaviour, tbf.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861880#Comment_122861880

Are you telling us that you don't know the difference between a criminal charge and a civil action because it does sound like it?

I'fd also question what right SF have to question others in terms of violence given that the likes of Gerry Kelly still remain in SF's Ard Chomhairle. Pot. Kettle. Black!

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861880#Comment_122861880

I already said to not tag me with nonsense

Go spend a little time researching the difference between civil and criminal. Less time posting gibberish

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861510#Comment_122861510

Ellis is a great man, you just disagree with his views and history.

People who have fought in wars served in armies are not that unusual in parliaments across Europe or the world.

...Bbut 47 years ago, this happened or that happened.....

Good for you, go back in time if you can, everyone else has to live now, in the world today.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861963#Comment_122861963

I'm fully aware of the difference.

Did a court of this state find that he was 65% liable and fine him damages for injuries caused?

Allinall

Good for you, go back in time if you can, everyone else has to live now, in the world today.

Those that haven't been murdered, obviously.

harryharry25

Have Fine Gael commented on why they kept the public in the dark that one of their councillors got removed from the party for sending inappropriate texts and what these texts were?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861991#Comment_122861991

The civil action did not find JMcG or anyone else guilty - it decided on compensation. So the only reason I can see for you to continue with this is for a petty attempt to point score.

What exactly has a civil action got to do with his guilt? I've taken civil action against other parties over the years, been compensated and yet those parties were never found guilty. I've also been involved in criminal trials (as a witness) and while there was no compensation, guilt most certainly was decided.

A civil action has a different threshold compared to a criminal trial and you are simply pushing this because it suits your agenda.

edit: typos

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862050#Comment_122862050

The civil action did not JMcG or anyone else guilty - it decided on compensation.

because it found that he was 65% liable and inflicted grave injuries.

That is all that is being claimed by me here.

And it does not dilute the actual point made that this incident and others has FG on the back foot of the election campaign.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862095#Comment_122862095

So you believe that someone who is not guilty of an offence but found liable for damages should not have been selected to stand for a political party? (Personally, I don't think they should have selected him either and I've stated that here.)

However, in that case and if that is the acceptable threshold you expect, why does SF happily allow convicted terrorists, bombers and murderers to stand for election? How can you support such a party?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862126#Comment_122862126

Again - my issue with it is the holier than thou hypocrisy of FG and their supporters on these issues.

They did the same thing last time out, ridiculed others and then almost immediately got found out having done the same thing themselves. They never learn and now find themselves seriously on the backfoot for the entire campaign.

I have given my views on the actions carried out in the conflict/war and what was agreed in the GFA that I supported and voted for.

I see sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862126#Comment_122862126

How are you a Mod on here when you're clearly rabidly anti Sinn Fein?

Mental stuff

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861702#Comment_122861702

What hypocrisy? Have FG called for everyone accused of an offence in court to step down? Have they called for everyone who has lost a civil action in court to step down? Please provide the link.

You are the one applying double standards, making a song and a dance about McGahon, never convicted of any offence, and ignoring those convicted of an offence in your own party.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862147#Comment_122862147

So it is about the posters, not the issue?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862163#Comment_122862163

What's wrong with being rabidly anti Sinn Fein, mod or not?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861985#Comment_122861985

Ellis' victims are still walking around, suffering, knowing that he is alive and well. He has never shown any remorse for his involvement in the callous murders of innocent people, some of them women and children.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862163#Comment_122862163

Are you seriously expecting a volunteer on a politics forum to not have a political opinion? (and I'm quite capable of separating my personal opinion from my mod role)

Mod: Now stop trying to derail the thread!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862164#Comment_122862164

Who called for him to 'step down'? Not me.

The hypocrisy is to call yourself the 'party of law and order' and then stand over a selection like this.

To lambast another party for 'secretive kangaroo courts' or for having 'a lack of transparency' when it turns out you have a case on your books where you refused to say publicly why someone was expelled etc. Then we have them climbing onto the high moral ground over internal party 'bullying and abuse' when they also have issues with it and ignored them and in the case of Barry Walsh brought somebody back into the party who was expelled for it.

Then you have a senior party member who lambasted another party leader for blocking housing and it's revealed two members of her own party held up a development for almost a year and only relented when they gained out of it.

That's just the stuff that has come out since the campaign started and is why they are on the back foot, explaining instead of promoting.

I could go on.

I see sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862180#Comment_122862180

Nothing as long as people can be critical of FG the same way people are of SF without censorship.

harryharry25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862229#Comment_122862229

What's even more hypocritical is the same people who were up in anger over the 2 most recent Sinn Fein issues, have no issues that FG got rid of this fella for sending inappropriate messages and hiding it from the public

Vexorg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122862243#Comment_122862243

Do you have any examples of posters critical of FineGael being censored?