The decline of FG?

FrancieBrady

Folks, the line Minister is intervening now because overspends/ possible corruption/ waste in their department is their responsibility to deal with.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581968#Comment_122581968

That doesn't mean that the Minister is to blame for this, which is where you started out.

If there is an overspend in a government Department, the Minister is correct to investigate when it comes to light, but that is far far removed from your original spurious malicious allegation that the Minister signed off on it.

You have come a long long way from your original allegation as the information has gradually come to light, leaving you with another issue on which you have zero credibility.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581996#Comment_122581996

I said it was 'unconfirmed'. I didn't accuse a Minister of anything. To this very minute we don't know if the minister or a member of his staff knew. We do know other Ministers knew it was being built. What the line Minister knew we simply don't know and that includes you.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582090#Comment_122582090

Now that is the refuge of the most unscrupulous. Throw out a facetious accusation that you picked up on the internet, with a disclaimer that it was unconfirmed.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582117#Comment_122582117

Only one poster here has 'named' a politician responsible for this latest overspend and called for her resignation.

I didn't name the politician and I said it was 'unconfirmed'.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582090#Comment_122582090

You also said - with no qualifications whatsoever:

By signing off on it he has facilitated whatever incompetence was involved. The CS need ministerial sign off to get away with something like this. He could have, with the stroke of a pen, stopped the extravagance/incompetence/corruption or whatever it was inflated the cost. 

Plenty of accusations there - and catching yourself in your own lies to boot.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582265#Comment_122582265

Well, I assume a bit of intelligence on behalf of the reader. I probably should have said 'if he signed off on it….' My bad, consider the point clarified.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582301#Comment_122582301

You made the assertion that:

The CS need ministerial sign off to get away with something like this.

But instead of being capable of even a tiny degree of honesty it's back to throwing personal jibes. Typical.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582303#Comment_122582303

I posted the relevant Civil Service regulations that demonstrated that that particular claim - the CS need ministerial sign-off - was a blatant lie, and there was never a single admission that he was wrong, that he had been disingenuous, that he was engaged in a malicious attack on an unnamed politician.

He throws around false allegations like confetti, against politicians and posters alike.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582303#Comment_122582303

That was not what I was accused of by blanch.

No problem admitting that was a part that was wrong in fact. I'd qualify it by saying the CS need the line minister asleep at the wheel to get away with an overspend like that. Another minister Jack Chambers claimed yesterday he personally was resisting spending submissions so clearly there is no block on a minister controlling his departments spending.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582378#Comment_122582378

Chambers is resisting overall budgets aka spending submissions

Thats not micro management of project budgets

You know this of course but continue spouting rubbish

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582513#Comment_122582513

I 'know' another Minister has taken control of his dept's spending. There seems to be no control in another as the bike shed and other cases in that dept show.

Tbh here you may get ready for others asking these questions Pureza because asked they will be. Tip of an iceberg like RTE vibes of the whole thing. 'but SF' will not be an acceptable answer either.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582562#Comment_122582562

You are again talking out of your backside here as to what I posted

The lack of self awareness projected by your post above and countless others is not even believeable either,hasn't been for years

Correcting your assertion once more,department budgets, indeed CoCo budgets,not project budgets are what the mimister and dept of Finance has some control over,got that yet ?

Nobody today is saying do nothing btw either,are they,no matter how many times you repeat yourself with that falsehood

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582682#Comment_122582682

Ministers have controlled 'project' budgets. Here is one instance.

Midwest Radio - Calls being made to the Transport Minister to allow vital road projects to go ahead

Seems to me what level a Minister wants to get involved is an á la carte decision.

Questions will be asked of the relevant line minister here. With several high profile cases exposed in his dept what did he do in terms of oversight and control? There will be questions for the CS too, no doubt.

Telling those asking questions they are 'talking out of their backsides' will not be an acceptable answer either. I sense ducks are being gotten in a row already.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582792#Comment_122582792

Are you seriously comparing a motorway project budget/go ahead with micro managing the opw's hundreds of projects ?

I don't think you could possibly think thats a credible argument either

Little wonder these threads hop around with the same 3 or 4 readers

No one else would listen to that kind of codswallop

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582856#Comment_122582856

No, I am saying that your contention that a Minister can't control budgets is bogus, it seems a Minister is able to control budgets if he/she wants to. By the way, to counter the shrill 'you can't expect a Minister to be on top of every penny spent in his/her department' rants. I am not expecting that and never said he/she should. They have staff though and the power to delegate.

Anyway the Minister has now come out now publicly and said he was not even aware of the project. So we have that. We'll see where it goes from here.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582904#Comment_122582904

You are conflating micro management with macro management

Deliberately so I'd say as the pet project of yours to chase a minister wouldn't work without doing that

It''s nonsense

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582992#Comment_122582992

Not confusing a thing.
Ministers patently can get involved with spending on projects if they deem it important.

Not just me 'chasing' the minister either for answers here. Sorry to disappoint you.

In fairness for a young fella he has learned the 'I know nothing' routine well.

Ivana Bacik, Eamon Ryan and the Ceann Comhairle knew about it IB and the CC having a media reported spat about it. His replacement K. O'Donnell (Minister For Housing at the time)knew about it and organised planning for it (all reported in the media) and two Dáil committees also discussed the building of it, also reported in the media.

It was also built in his workplace and he never heard of it until this week?

This is why FG are in decline IMO, people can see through the flannel now. They had a chance, a golden one after 2008 but Enda's flannel about New Politics blew it.

pureza

These posts are getting longer

You know what they say about explaining

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583137#Comment_122583137

The Minister you say has norhing to answer for is ‘explaining’ and he’ll be ‘explaining’ some more too. Ditto the CS.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122578186#Comment_122578186

Depends what you consider to be "the benefit" of home ownership. To many people there are multiple benefits, such as being able to develop an extension, a driveway or an attic, to eventually own your home and the security of not paying rent in your later years, to leave something to your kids so they always have a fallback and don't end up homeless, to know that you won't be kicked out of your home and have to find a new one on the whim of your landlord.

When you rent a property the price you can sell for and who you can sell to are benefits you don't have anyway

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583137#Comment_122583137

I told you that I had shown him the expenditure approval limits for the Civil Service and that as a result the Minister wouldn't have signed off on the project - which was his first and main claim, a claim which has been shown to be disingenuous and malicious. He has repeatedly ignored that information and continued to discuss and debate in bad faith. You can only take it so far, show the absurdity of his arguments, and then just leave it there.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584289#Comment_122584289

Again: I said that it required 'confirmation'. Exactly what you should be doing instead of making unproven allegations.

The Minister has now claimed he knew nothing at all of the project. We will see if that is true in due course. If it is it begs several other questions.

Red Silurian

SF now pointing out that they will build houses for 250k while FFG builds bike sheds for 335k. Funny analogy I think we can all agree

Vexorg

do you really believe that Sinn Fein can build houses for €250,000, are they not saying that will sell from that figure after an €8,000,000,000 per annum subsidy.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584770#Comment_122584770

This is a good example of somebody falling for false information

They are saying they will build 75,000 for social rental, 25,000 for affordable purchase and 25,000 for affordable rental at a cost of €39bn which when you divide the two figures equates to an average of 312,000 for each of the above mentioned 125,000 homes.

The social and affordable rental will be a nice continuous earner for the state while it's not clear if the €6.25bn+ made form the sale of 25,000 houses for 250k+ each is included in the €39bn figure or not it's prudent to assume that it is

In total, including the private builders building 175k homes over 5 years, it equates to 60k homes a year

I hope this clears it up for you

Vexorg

nope it does not clear it up, do you really believe Sinn Fein can build a house for €250,000?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584537#Comment_122584537

One of the features of the 'arrogance of power' is increasing displeasure and outrage if anyone scrutinises what you are doing. This releases Minister/members and supporters of those in power onto media and social media to arrogantly try to cast shade on anyone who scrutinises or questions them or offers alternatives to what they are doing.
You can see it clearly in this debacle over the bike shed and when somebody offers a different way of doing things, like housing.

The word 'schadenfreude' has been mentioned a lot here, but the way the bike shed and the new housing policy have combined to see the government's own schadenfreude come to bite them in the ass would be hilarious if it wasn't such a serious abuse of power and the taxpayer . More to come I would say.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122585013#Comment_122585013

Lad makes arrogant post after arrogant post accusing others of arrogance

The ironing

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122585048#Comment_122585048

QED.
Cast shade, point over there, rage at messengers and whistleblowers, demean, deride and undermine but never ever offer solutions that might undermine/criticise what is currently going on and those involved.

Stick religiously to the 'I know nothing' excuses, circle the wagons again and carry on. Increasingly the FG/FF/Green way.