The decline of FG?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122394945#Comment_122394945

Leo stepped down in April, some people online have floating this so called "big bad story" since before he resigned yet none of them can provide any information on it and most now have moved onto the next nonsense they have dreamt up

We had a few questionable accounts trying t push the same story and then of course the big reveal never happened

If the media had a big bad story maybe you can explain why they are not releasing it? after all he is now gone and has also confirmed he won't run in next election. What is stopping them?

Or more likely, it is bulls**t. When you read some of the stuff on this thread you can see people just imagine up stuff and then declare it is the truth.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122399302#Comment_122399302

If you want to build towards a United Ireland then yes parties on both side of the border need to work together and get their opinion on Ireland and how they see the future

Why wouldn't FG invite him to their party conference? that was in 2019.

Just because he was attending their conference doesn't mean they automatically agree with him or his party.

You will also find FF have done online discussion with politicians from Northern Ireland.

At least they have some cop on and some ability to do their job, not the bickering sh*t and incompetence you see from other parties. You can figure out which party I mean by that yourself

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122399764#Comment_122399764

You making up stuff I said again?

I didn't say anything about 'automatically agreeing with him or his party'.

The only parties in the north who refuse to discuss the future with others can be divined from the Ireland's Future conference, list of participants, every political party in Ireland were there except the DUP, TUV and UUP. They were too busy bickering among themselves while once again the world moved on without them.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122399764#Comment_122399764

What I think the DUP attendance at the FG conference shows is that there is an avenue for dialogue between unionists and nationalists. The key point is that if SF are involved at any point, the dialogue fails.

Many have said that the involvement of SF is the key blockage to progress on a united Ireland. The fact that the DUP could attend an FG conference, but not a SF conference, only confirms that.

Portraying the DUP attendance as a bad things (as some have tried to do) is the height of stupidity as dialogue is the way forward, first towards a shared island, and in time, to consider other options.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400090#Comment_122400090

Many have said that the involvement of SF is the key blockage to progress on a united Ireland. 

I nearly fell off my chair.

The key blockage is successive governments who have failed miserably to live up to our constitutional aspiration and to come up with a plan/proposal.
They are getting braver on that though and the great bandwagon recognisers - Fine Gael - are almost there.

They (FF and FG) will be turning up at more discussions on the future, no doubt in my mind about that.

The DUP/TUV will resist in their Never Never Never fashion up to and after constitutional change.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400148#Comment_122400148

You haev yet to get any predictions right yet continue to make them constantly

You have no idea what the TUV/DUP will do long term

The only way forward is dialogue and cross border project

Not the PSF way which is …..well ou described it lovely above. Let's do f**k all, not talk to everyone and blame everyone else when it doesn't work

Incompetence

PSF should move out of the way and let the politicians get on with it, they can bicker with themselves

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400434#Comment_122400434

You can only 'talk' to the willing.

Again I'll ask but you'll ignore it because you hate the implications and you don't like being wrong.

Who was at the conference organised by Ireland's Future and who wasn't?

Were ALL the major political parties on this island there and were the DUP/TUV/UUP absent?

Who has refused to attend all island talks on everything from Animal Health, Brexit and walked out of the British?Irish strand of the GFA?

Who wants to talk and who doesn't Clo?

BTW: Apparently the conspiracy theorists here reckon the Ireland's Future conference which had EVERY major political party bar the TU/DUP/UUP present was organised by SF - so I expect them to challenge your assertion that SF are 'doing nothing'.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400434#Comment_122400434

What Sinn Fein fear most is that any open dialogue must have no predetermined outcome. They are so wedded to the idea of a united Ireland, in the same way that the DUP are wedded to the UK only outcome, that open dialogue about the future is difficult. What @FrancieBrady and SF want is a closed dialogue with the only possible goal of a united Ireland. No unionist or other nationalist party is going to take a part in that charade, which is why their initiatives constantly fail.

This is what is so much better about the Shared Island Initiative. That is based on the only reality - we share a small island. What political outcomes result in the longer run, result from the coming together of people to openly think and openly discuss with no preconditions. The binary closed ideas of the GFA were necessary at the time to get buy in from terrorists. With the passing of time, the opening of dialogue to broaden the discussion is more necessary than ever. This government has repeatedly shown to take a mature view on this, unlike the warmongerers singing rebel songs in the pub or at the election count centre.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400595#Comment_122400595

Again, the facts contradict you.

Several people at the Future Ireland conference spoke openly about how they opposed a UI and preferred the existing arrangements, there was no rancour or anger and their views were listened to.
SF make no secret that they want a UI, but have taken part in debates and discussions that include other outcomes.
They, like others want the chance to persuade and that requires the responsible body - The government of the day - to come up with a plan.
After that, let those who wish to stay in the Union or who want a federal solution or who want a UI, persuade the electorate in NORMAL democratic fashion.

Leo Varadkar at least knows that the time has come.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400647#Comment_122400647

The facts contradict you - the government are planning - for a shared island. These are the details that matter.

That is all that is needed for now. When that is shown to work, other things may come on the table.

Like SF policies, Future Ireland is long on hyperbole and short on details and common sense.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400563#Comment_122400563

Didn't Donaldson go to the FG conference? so thats willing isn't it

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400938#Comment_122400938

Not to discuss but to put the case for us rejoining the Commonwealth. He got a standing ovation but I think subsequent events showed FG that they are great buddies only as long as they are getting their way.
SF and anyone who dealt with them have known that for a long time. Theresa May and Boris found out too.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400990#Comment_122400990

As I already said they don't have to agree with him

At least they talk, sticking fingers in ears and acting like children doesn't work

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122401014#Comment_122401014

Again what SF fail to see is that talking leads to results.

All the posturing about we have to plan for a united Ireland only pushes people away. A sit-down with all options on the table is the only real way forward. That is scary for Sinn Fein as it means the restricted binary options are opened out.

To be fair to the people of Northern Ireland, most of them have figured this out. This is why the proportion for a united Ireland is stuck below 40% (other than in the fevered aftermath of Brexit).

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122401032#Comment_122401032

As I said many times, anyone who wants a United Ireland is sadly mistaken if they think PSF will achieve it. They will be still here in 100 year bikcering with every party in Ireland and trying to change their history

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122401041#Comment_122401041

The way they are going they won't be here in 100 years. Their latest attempt at an immigration policy appears to be nothing more than dog-whistling to the racists with little detail and crazy unimplementable ideas. It won't be enough for the right-wing racists and it will put off those of us with a conscience.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400743#Comment_122400743

And who is ignoring that and screaming about ‘sectarian’ funding only the denizens of the DUP and TUV. Even funding for a road and a bridge were deemed to be ‘sectarian’.

mehico

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122401032#Comment_122401032

I wouldn't agree with your point about all the posturing for a plan.

All political parties recognise the importance of planning:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0716/1460216-united-ireland-committee/

Augme

Three nights in a row there has been a fire at the Crown Paints site in Coolock. Multiple Garda injured in the riots and the GRA serious issues with their officers being put in danger. This can't be helpful to a party who are desperate to project a strong image on law and order.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0720/1460937-coolock-unrest-dublin/

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406591#Comment_122406591

ah fg will be grand come ge time, theyll have ff to keep them propped up, nothing to be worrying about…..

BQQ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406591#Comment_122406591

But they are also desperate to be seen as tough on immigration, so they stand back twiddling thumbs while these nutters burn buildings and attack people living in tents

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122406591#Comment_122406591

THE OWNER OF the former Crown Paints site in Coolock earmarked for asylum seekers has received over €23 million from the Department of Children since last year for the provision of accommodation of Ukrainians and international protection applicants. 

Pity our children didn't receive services of 23 Million euro!!! Yet we pay high taxes.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122399737#Comment_122399737

Leo stepped down in April, some people online have floating this so called "big bad story" since before he resigned yet none of them can provide any information on it and most now have moved onto the next nonsense they have dreamt up

Not me anyway, I'm sticking to my guns on "the big bad" story which might not necessarily be a bad story. You are correct, I have no proof such a story exists and I will refuse to believe what I read on places like this or twitter unless I can get it properly verified also. I might be wrong as well, of course, but I don't think I'll believe that until maybe March 2025. Give it 12 months from the date he decided to stepped down you know?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122401072#Comment_122401072

For the sake of our health service I really hope not. Although there is one lad who wants to fix a major problem in the health service, I hope he climbs high enough in the party for his plans to come to fruition

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412518#Comment_122412518

If not FFG in govt, then who?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412525#Comment_122412525

I was in hospital 3 nights last week looking after my 93 year old grandmother who was waiting 5 days for a bed, then after getting a bed she had to wait 9 days for a process that took 15 minutes

I don't know who can sort out our health service but I know FFG can't and aren't bothered to.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412802#Comment_122412802

Shocking, services are so poor yet people don't want to fight for a better one.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412802#Comment_122412802

Sorry to hear that. Wishing a speedy recovery to your grandmother.

Lots to be done on the health service front, I agree.

I am not convinced that any of the other non-governmental parties have the answers though.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412820#Comment_122412820

Who said anything about fighting? If you want political change you have to vote for it, not fight for it.

And it's not as simple as throwing money at it, some politician will actually need to force through some major changes that will hurt some very rich private hospital owners. Last year the health budget was €22.5billion. That's the equivalent of €4,500 for each of the 5 million people living here or €375/month.

Just checking the most expensive VHI plan there is €392/month per adult and €86 per child. The govt could pay for a family of 4 on the most expensive VHI plan for less than what they are paying directly for it.

So who would I prefer to see fixing our health service and all that goes with it. Anybody at all is my answer

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412870#Comment_122412870

The problem isn't rich private hospital owners. They don't do A&E.

The problem is at the frontline, where restrictive practices among frontline staff are outdated and outmoded.