Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264428#Comment_122264428

They are not your property. Leave them back where you got them.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265112#Comment_122265112

Well I've washed & dried them and now they have my fingerprints. So tossing back into the ditches mightn't be advisable. No way they'll go through a RV machine. But I'm mindful that one of the objectives of this scheme is anti litter and the idea is/was to encourage people to pick them, get deposits back and help keep the streets and roads tidy.

I'm thinking the Minister might be the best recipient, surely he knows what the protocol is? If I do, I'll let you know what the reply is.

Sarn

I’ve seen a Tesco RVM machine take fairly flattened cans and pay out, seems hit and miss.

Unfortunately we were stuck behind an individual with such cans, trying over and over until they were taken. The problem was that the cans also knocked the machine out of commission requiring a staff member to reset it…and then continued doing the same thing.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264544#Comment_122264544

AFAIK none at the moment.

The charities in the Re-turn for Children scheme don't collect themselves.

https://re-turn.ie/return-your-bottles-and-cans-to-make-a-difference-to-a-childs-life/

Re-turn is inviting other charities, clubs etc. to get involved and I understand they will actually be collecting.

So I'm holding onto "roadkill cans" for now in the hope that some good cause will avail of them.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263474#Comment_122263474

Nope.. It's already a ridiculous half-assed "seen to be doing something" nonsense scheme as it is.

Never ceases to amaze me how many people in this country will jump to reward failure and punish themselves some more on the altar of (allegedly) "doing the right thing".

It's no wonder that idiocy like this latest scam gets implemented, never mind off the drawing board in the first place.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266307#Comment_122266307

Doesnt amaze me much. Theyre in every town. The kind of people who hang off a politicians arm for a photo while being robbed blind by their policies. Theyd be the head school lick growing up.

chasm

I've, as yet to return any bottles/cans for a deposit refund. Probably about 5 euro worth sitting in a box in the shed waiting to go back.

I was in McDonalds the other day, and bought my niece a happy meal which she ate "in store'. Just came across the receipt there earlier and noticed the 15c deposit fee for her fruit shoot drink ,which I must admit didn't even enter my head while I was in there! We just finished our meals, cleared our tray in to their (segregated) bins and left.

I know it's only 15c, but I wonder how much Mc Donald's pull in on this not being claimed by the customer?

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265683#Comment_122265683

Now that made me laugh. "Well I've washed & dried them and now they have my fingerprints. So tossing back into the ditches mightn't be advisable. Can I ask what you think might happen if the Gardai dust those cans and find your fingerprints on them?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265001#Comment_122265001

Into Lidl's over flowing general waste bin if that counts?

reubenreuben

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263474#Comment_122263474

If it was 30c for small bottles, it would be more or almost more than that actual cost for some items. Small bottles of water in supermarkets for example.

reubenreuben

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264367#Comment_122264367

The naivety of comparing with Scotland is out of place here.

They are socialist and actually give a toss about their residents so are super careful about implementing new schemes .

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268913#Comment_122268913

You have to question the logic. Get a money grabbing shambles in quickly to get things started and hope it improves later versus another country taking their time to implement a scheme that better suits their needs. Its farcical to suggest the first of those options is better.

dxhound2005

If this thread is to believed our DRS company is going to be very rich. On the pickings of 15 and 25 cent deposits. The Scottish one went bust. They were looking for 20 pence.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-65965368

I have been comparing our scheme to existing ones, and ones planned in Portugal, Poland and elsewhere. They are the same model as Ireland, the polluter collects a deposit which the customer claims back. Very straightforward, and no need to go off into conspiracy theories about it.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122269337#Comment_122269337

The scheme in Scotland hasn't even come into practice yet.

Ms Slater blamed the firm's demise on conditions imposed by the UK government such as the exclusion of glass.

Why are you inventing a "20p" conspiracy theory about why it went bust?

Isn't that blatant misrepresentation of the article you linked?

Will our scheme go bust because glass isn't included so? Why not?

dxhound2005

The one in Poland starting next year is a copy of ours, and others. Is there a Polish word for Gombeen, that people would like to call them?

https://www.gov.pl/web/climate/deposit-refund-system-in-poland#:~:text=Empty%20packages%20covered%20by%20the,packages%20and%20returning%20the%20deposit.

"Money, material & data flow: In accordance with the principle of extended producer responsibility, the producers of beverages in packaging covered by the deposit system will finance the system. The deposit collected by the retailers will be transferred to the representing entity, and all financial settlements will be made monthly. Producers, will bear the costs associated with, among other things, the collection and transportation of packaging and waste, and keeping records and accounting for deposits. The system will additionally be financed by an unreturned deposit and the sale of recycled materials."

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122269396#Comment_122269396

Is it a copy of ours? Already there are multiple differences between their version of the system and ours.

Deposit value: to be determined by regulation (still being processed).

All retailers, regardless of their area, will collect a deposit if they offer beverages in packages covered by the system… Empty packages covered by the deposit system will be allowed to be returned at commercial units with an area of more than 200 m2.

• Material type and packaging sizes covered by the system:
  • disposable plastic bottles of up to 3 liters,
  • reusable glass bottles of up to 1.5 liters,
  • metal cans of up to 1 liter.

So either you didn't read the article and just dumped it.

Or worse, did read it, and falsely misrepresented its content.

It is not possible to say, from that article, that it will be a copy of ours.

Another demonstration your posts are just excercises in pro-Return propaganda.

argentum

How are the costs covered in this , How does the retailer cover the cost of electricity ,staff and storage

If I buy 50 cans in Lidl and bring the empty cans to Aldi I can ask for cash back or just use the receipt to get a reduced price shop.

Every receipt I've handed over so far just gets thrown into a bin so how do Aldi get the money back that they have given me

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122269429#Comment_122269429

They get a small amount per returned item processed, 2.2 per item iirc if done via the RVM.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265001#Comment_122265001

This. We need people to realise that just because the machine isn't working they have to leave and find somewhere else. No. If the machine isn't working, then it's a manual return. Go to the customer service desk and tell them you want to make a manual return. The machine will be fixed quick, trust me. They can't refuse, they are taking part in the scam scheme so have to accept the returns. If people actually started doing this, we may be able to pressure the shops into refusing Re-Scam machines and not taking part in the returns (maybe they're not legally allowed). Yes, I know the shops are not to blame, but us giving out isn't changing anything, obviously. But if we can make it so annoying and costly for the shops, they can actually enforce change.

Twice I've had to initiate a manual return (with 2-4 18-pack diet coke boxes full of cans) in Tesco. Someone fixed the machine within a few minutes both times.

nc6000

I'm sure this has been asked before but why don't the machines take bottles or cans without the logo? I don't mean refund a deposit which was never paid, I mean just take all bottles and cans if their aim is to improve the rate of recycling?

I just thought of this the other while returning a few items and one of them was an older bottle without the logo on it. No big deal as I just brought it home and popped it into the recycling bin like I used to do for everything. I just thought it would have made sense for the machine to accept it even just to make sure it was properly recycled.

Maybe there's a good reason they can't do this.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122269977#Comment_122269977

Because it's about the money, not recycling.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122269977#Comment_122269977

The bottles and cans that give refunds have barcodes on them, the machine can't tell what you're putting in without the barcode

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122269977#Comment_122269977

It probably doesn't matter much now that all stock sold must be DRS compatible and have the logo and barcode.

We have had many complaints here about RVM's filling up too often.

I suppose if they allowed the machines to be used as a disposal point for non scope items that would have made the problem worse.

The stated goal of Re-turn is to get our recycling rate up to 90%.

sligeach

Some little 80110× on the old thread said the RVM's accept crushed cans and bottles as long as the barcode is visible. I can tell you now, they don't. I was trying to save on space so I crushed the items, leaving the barcode visible.

I got 1 15c receipt out of about 24 items. Sometimes the machine took the item in, but it didn't give credit for it. But more often than not, the machine had a fit, as the can kept going in and out, and then you're trying to grab it before it went back in again. The 1 receipt I got was where I had to try and reform the can. I ended up dumping the lot in the bin beside the machine. Lesson learned, but it's made me hate the scheme even more, if that's even possible.

Me crushing the cans and bottles with my foot should be helping save the planet, as it takes less electricity for the RVM to do so. Crushed or not, it's the same item.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122270235#Comment_122270235

The stated goal of Re-turn is to get our recycling rate up to 90%

No it isn't, even though they have been telling that lie from the start, so I will forgive you for spreading it, you seem to believe everything they tell you.

The collection rate target is 90%. Completely different.

We have no idea what the current collection rate is, which is handy if you are running a massive scam. Isn't it?

moycullen14

Have people changed their buying habits because of the scheme? Probably the best result for the environment would be to stop buying plastic bottles and maybe cans.

Guy ahead of me in the supermarket the other day (Lidl) had 4x12 trays of water, what's that, €12 in deposit? Seems mad as the water in our area is pretty good, why not get a reusable bottle and fill it out of the tap?

odyssey06

Bought some mini bottles of red wine in M&S, in plastic bottles, hit with 15c deposit on each… unexpected! But swings and roundabouts as I have an empty bottle bought pre-DRS that I can now get 15c back on.

elperello

What I said was "stated goal" which is true and not a lie.

A key aim is a plastic recycling plant built in Limerick which will recycle what they collect.

All the aluminium they collect will be recycled because as we all know separated aluminium has a commercial value already for recyclers.

If we reach verified figures of 90% collection the current rate will be irrelevant.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272904#Comment_122272904

It would be interesting to get figures on that.

I tended more to buying beer in glass bottles during the transition period.

The man buying all that water maybe doing it for a sports event or something of that nature.

You are right about the reusable bottle filled from the tap.

If your local water is palatable it's a small change that's easy to make.

donspeekinglesh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272904#Comment_122272904

Yep, I kicked my Pepsi Max habit, and my wife gave up buying sparkling water. Easily a dozen fewer 2ltr bottles a week

sligeach

Tesco today.

"No time for waste." Except they don't mind wasting your time. Before I left, I seen a man walking in with 2 bags full of empties. His look of disgust was priceless.

Lidl today.

At least one of them was working.

Aldi today.

I haven't seen an Aldi with 2 RVM's, I've found them so often to be broken, this time it was full, maybe if there was 2 it would spread the load and have a back-up for when they inevitably break. And they're the same size as Lidl.

odyssey06

And the gombeen in chief from Return was spewing patronising BS to the press about avoiding weekends! Blaming the victim easier than doing a proper job.

reubenreuben

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272904#Comment_122272904

It's not just the practice of buying plastic bottles and cans that could change but manufacturers providing alternatives instead.

Some drinks can only be bought in plastic bottles or cans.

If this was really for the good of the environment then manufacturers would be forced to provide alternatives that are environment friendly.

Straws are a good example.

Genghis

While some people changed habits, I bet the reduction in plastic use is miniscule.

This is because a deposit based scheme is designed for perpetual plastic use, it greenwashes everyone into thinking single use plastic is circular, recycled, sustainable, when it's not.

Compare DRS to the impact a straight forward non refundable consumer levy might have. Let's say it was to start small (5c or 10c and item) but be announced in advance it would grow to say €1 per bottle within say 8 years. Now that is an incentive and a timeline for producers to find an alternative to plastic.

Before you say a levy only shafts the customer, remember that practically anything sold in plastic can be sold in can, bottle, bulk or draught: there are alternatives and these would not be levied. Bottles and cans were already well recycled too. So there is strong consumer demand as well as a producer route.

As well as solving the problem of plastic for good - something we will have to address anyway, it could have been done without a quango, without a logo, without an entire reverse supply chain being built off the ground.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276196#Comment_122276196

There's already plant/organic based containers for water and milk etc out there - why didn't they just legislate for them to be used instead of continuing to endorse plastic use - hmmm. something to do with the producers maybe having to shell out the money instead.

They were using them for the 1€ water bottles in Dublin airport when I went through a few weeks ago so why not in wide usage?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276167#Comment_122276167

As has been pointed out on the thread... easiest switch would have been levy or tax plastics and not cans. But nope Return needed the money from the cans.

chasm

The 'honesty" water in Dublin airport went up to €2 once they changed from plastic bottles.

Do Dublin airport still expect you to bring the bottle back from your travels to claim the deposit paid in shops there? I brought sn empty bottle last time and used the free hydration station.

I was never one for purchasing fizzy drinks etc so I can't say my purchasing habits have changed there, however the odd time I buy beer I try to look for good deals in bottles now. Most of my plastic bottle use has always, and still is Milk, and then household cleaning products and toiletries like bleach, fabric conditioner, bubble bath, shampoo etc.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276514#Comment_122276514

Ahh you're right 2 euro (just checked my transactions) and it was brought in due to DRS - still cheaper than the rip off shops in every airport worldwide
I don't know the processing costs of the product but if expensive one would assume mass production would bring prices down to the plastic production levels

bog master

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/other/firm-sues-scottish-ministers-for-200million-after-drs-disaster/ar-BB1osZtO?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=0b450691b49a43ca8cfd607aa5a521db&ei=18

I am so glad our own beautiful scheme is Not for Profit!

Biffa was expecting £10 million in profit per year over 10 years.

dxhound2005

The UK scheme will be up and running by October 2027. Just like Casement Park will be ready for the Euros in 2028.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68898109

Floppybits

I have changed habits, I now check which store is doing a deal on drinks and go there. Last week 18 coke zero for €10 in Tesco or 18 in Dunnes so went to tesco with my 3 black bags of cans and bottles. Then do all the shopping in that stor

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278070#Comment_122278070

A fantasy

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276196#Comment_122276196

Yes, we need a complete change of habits and instead of increasing recycling to 90%, reduce single use plastic usage to 10%. Like instead of shops selling bottles of coke, have a coke fountain, and you bring your reuseable plastic bottle to get your coke fix. I bought a gatorade branded bottle (obviously it doesnt need to be a branded bottle, I just liked it), and now instead of buying gatorade in bottles, I have gatorade powder and fill my bottle up with tap water.

Similarly, I'd like syrups to become more common and other powders to become more common.

Citizen Six

First proper nightmare with the system the other day. Went to Tesco in Fairview, machine is down the back of the shop. Display said to call member of staff. As I finish reading it, an aggressive homeless alco starts shouting that he's first in the queue. He didn't see the funny side of it when I laughed and said I was the first one at the machine. He said he'd already called staff and shouted at me to do the same.
I said 'watch this', and turned off the machine at the socket, and on again, fully expecting it to boot up. But the screen stayed black. He got more irate, and I offered to take his cans to Lidl with me. He didn't like that, took a swing, and landed on the ground.

Off I went to Lidl in East Wall, both machines out of order. Across the road to Aldi, where one machine was down, but I was able to use the remaining one.

So out of five machines, only one was working. Maybe I was wrong all along. 😂

Citizen Six

That would cut down on the profit to be made.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122269977#Comment_122269977

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278900#Comment_122278900

Ahem…and I'll quote you…

"Do you need someone to show you how they work maybe?"

😋

kippy

This may have been referenced already so apologies. Obviously as per usual they haven't provided any items sold per month even for context as they want to look at the percentages next year I think or some other BS and while I am skeptical of this I'll give them it but at the bottom of the article it states that or return rate with the old system was actually 80 percent and the aim of this system is to eventually get to 98 percent.

That's the first time I've seen a figure as high as eighty percent given for the return rate of our older system.

If that rate is accurate it's even more baffling why that system wasn't tweaked. If the same amount of marketing and PR spend went into that system as well as some tweaks around the edges there's no reason why a similar target of plus ninety percent couldn't have been achieved with far less negative environmental impact than this hair brained nonsense.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/deposit-return-scheme-reaches-new-milestone-in-june-1736726

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281378#Comment_122281378

Re-turn says by separating plastic and aluminium from general recycling, Ireland can achieve a 98% quality of recyclate - surpassing the 80% effectiveness of the recycling bin system.

Im reading this as the % of what is collected qualifies as recyclable.

Ireland can achieve a 98% quality of recyclate

Can we? So maybe. When? Another aspirational spoofy stat.

What is included/excluded in this term "98% quality of recyclate". Does this include whats being collected in recycle wheelie bins into the future? Any plans for whats now left in recycle wheelie bins that we're still paying for?

They must have some team of spin merchants coming up with vaguely worded stats about how great things might be at some undefined time in the future. This doesn't tell us very much at all. Stat gymnastics for show.

What would be fairer are some actual stats on the extra carbon footprint of Re-Turn and total deposits charged monthly at point of sale. Before people p!ss themselves yes a lag on the return of containers is only fair also but we are entitled to all this information so we can assess exactly what's happening in this scheme.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122278900#Comment_122278900

I'm old enough to remember the good old days of walking a few yards to your bin and getting on with your life.

Now you have to reboot the bin whilst dodging punches from irate drunks.

I miss the good old days.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265985#Comment_122265985

The charities aren't able to claim on crushed cans any more than you or I.