Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123066265#Comment_123066265

Can return go bankrupt?

Given that they have been handed a scam to more or less print money I severely doubt that is a possibility.

poop emoji

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123066889#Comment_123066889

Hehe good point tho Anglo Irish had a license to print money as a bank and well …

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123066792#Comment_123066792

Re-turn is either a quango or not.

I say not and I have outlined why.

There's no such thing as a contextual quango.

It's up to those using the description to support their claim which they have failed to do.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123067193#Comment_123067193

It's entirely justified to call it a quango.
I outlined all the reasons why above in post 3268, you didn't even attempt to engage with them, just a cop out answer about having "the same conversation".

But here's the summary:
They are a quango. They are quasi-governmental. They operate using devolved powers, within parameters entirely specified by government fiat, via a state monopoly. They provide a specific service to the public. No other company can collect Re-turns. Engagement with Re-turn is obligatory if you wish to reclaim your deposit.

For someone who claims not to be here defending or excusing Re-turn, you sure seem to have a dog in the fight when it comes to the finer definition of what a quango is and arguing the point in relation to Re-turn.

You still haven't come up with a better description of that Re-turn is. Despite being asked by multiple posters.
Another reason why it is entirely reasonable to refer to Re-turn and quango together.

There's no such thing as a contextual quango? Why not?

And I and others will continue to do so to refer to them as a quango, or worse than a quango. And every post you make just presents such a position even more as a defence of Re-turn, and your claims to the contrary have no credibility.

No one else would continue to dispute the point without providing an alternative description of Return even if paints them in a bad light.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123067331#Comment_123067331

I'm not copping out of anything but I see no value in going over old ground.

Like yourself I'm discussing this matter on my own terms and I reject your attempt at a summary.

You are throwing the kitchen sink at it with a lot of irrelevancies presumably hoping something will stick.

But yet again you have failed to come up with a definition of quango that fits Re-turn.

Like many on this thread, you have moved on to questioning my integrity and inferring that I have some personal gain from Re-turn.

You and "other posters" can continue to incorrectly categorise Re-turn as a quango if you wish but I reserve the right to intervene as I see fit.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123067929#Comment_123067929

All I have done is point out the inconsistency in your posts ie declaring in challenging the use of quango you are not defending or excusing them, and the number of posts you have on the subject on the thread.

There was zero mention made of personal gain. Only that the number of posts you have on the subject are hard to reconcile with such a declaration.

Actions speak louder than words and those posts as actions = zero credibility to your claims not to be defending or excusing them.

How you interpret that is on you.

You can reject whatever you want but I have in several recent posts justified its use. Zero attempt made in your posts to actually rebut the points made just dismissive one liners.

Such a response reinforces the strength of the claim that they are worse than a quango, and possessing those faults in common that has led it to being used as a perjorative description.

LambshankRedemption

You and "other posters" can continue to incorrectly categorise Re-turn as a quango if you wish but I reserve the right to intervene as I see fit.

Why don't you intervene with some facts as to why it is not a Quango?

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123066163#Comment_123066163

Its not a given if you dont know it is.

What youve quoted is further down the page in 1 of nearly 70 FAQs.

They put their lie about EU Targets being recycling targets at the top of the page as 1 of the 4 benefits of a DRS.

They know many more re-turn.ie visitors will read the DRS benefits section at the top of the page than will go searching down through the FAQs.

Unless its ok to lie at the top of the page as long as the reality is somewhere else less prominent.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068015#Comment_123068015

I've been consistent since this issue was first raised months ago.

Anyway it's time for me to bow out for now.

I accept that you believe you are right but I disagree with you.

I'm sure we'll chat again.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068254#Comment_123068254

The point is that Re-turn can't force anyone to use their system.

We have had several posters here saying that for one reason or another they won't.

So if the deposit isn't incentive enough Re-turn can't do any more about it.

They say they will send all the returns they get for re-cycling.

If they don't send all their collected cans/bottles then they will be lying.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068322#Comment_123068322

Theyre already lying about EU targets at the top of their own webpage that you linked to.

Enter Username Here

I'm sure that this has been asked multiple times, but I am having issues with the forum. It springs up the page when I scroll down, so i log out. Then it won't allow me to search through the thread properly.

Who are Re-turn? How did they get the contract?

Is it divided between Panda, Greyhound, Wiser and whoever else. around the country depending on where they are? If not, why not?

How much do they make per container, or do they get all of the profits of the unreturned containers to fund better machines and generally improve?

fritzelly

Haven't followed this thread in a while - still one person defending to the hilt a corrupt organisation

Archeron

Let's not forget disabled / housebound people can still go take a jump as far as return are concerned. My personal bugbear having family members in that category.

They've had a a year to come up with a solution for this and haven't bothered their holes, so as far I'm concerned they are a pack of scumbags.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068726#Comment_123068726

There is a significant cohort of people who get their groceries delivered. I am one, purely for the convenience, but there are lots of people who do it from necessity, be it mobility issues or transport issues. One year in, and zero solution has been suggested or offered. Those people have no choice but to put their recyclables in their green bin and let Re-turn keep their deposits.

Obviously it's in ReTurns interest to not come up with a solution because they keep the deposits. Oh yeah, I know, it's a "not for profit". 🙄

There could be some kind of a waiver system. The RVM scans the barcode to check if its registered so if the barcode is obscured, a deposit will not be returned. Tesco or SuperValu or whoever, could scan the barcode when the order is being picked, and then cover the barcode. Permanent marker, or super sticky labels or something, and remove the deposit fee from the item. Thats one low tech idea straight off the top of my head.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068765#Comment_123068765

How does the retailer get the deposit back with your low tech idea?

They have paid the deposit when purchasing the stock without knowing whether it will be sold to a home delivery or in store customer. The customer purchasing the item makes the retailer whole.

Agree the scheme should be more accessible for disabled people but a waiver is impractical.

geographica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123059772#Comment_123059772

Don’t know about maintenance but the shops empty them to somewhere (out the back i guess)

Extra costs on the shop, it must be worth their while 🤔

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069113#Comment_123069113

Thats where the waiver comes in. The deposit is waived on a small percentage of the stock they buy.

That idea was straight off the top of my head as I was typing the post. With 2 years of planning and the scheme running for a year now, Return and the supermarkets have had ample time to come up with a practical solution, and yet nothing.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069220#Comment_123069220

The practical solution is you return the bottles you buy if you want your deposit back. It doesn't matter if you get them by home delivery or not.

What you're proposing isn't remotely consistent with achieving the EU targets we're signed up to.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069299#Comment_123069299

And if you have mobility problems and dont drive, it's just tough sh!t is it?

And actually, it does help achieving the targets because the people just puts their bottles into the green bin, but aren't being penalised for it.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069307#Comment_123069307

In the first post you replied to I said that the scheme should be more accessible to people with disabilities so no it's not tough ****.

If you don't drive you get to a machine, the same way you get anywhere else. Walk, cycle, bus, lift etc. Bring a small quantity at a time etc.

And there's no way of knowing whether any person that would benefit from your waiver actually puts stuff in a green bin so it doesn't help with the targets.

As much as I think Ireland has made a dogs dinner of this, people also need to be grown up about it. Yes we were lied to about it being convenient for everyone but I won't let them keep my money.

khamilton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225773#Comment_122225773

Cans should never have been included in the scheme considering our extremely high level of aluminium recycling to begin with. The reason they were included was a) as a source of revenue for return & b) because as usual, the Green Party completely falls down on execution because they pushed out all their members who were passionate about environmental policy years ago.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069375#Comment_123069375

I don't drive. To take my bottles back I would have to order a taxi because there isnt one walking distance from me. Maybe if I save all my bottles up for a year, the deposit might pay for the taxi. Instead, I just put them in the green bin.

In the first post you replied to I said that the scheme should be more accessible to people with disabilities so no it's not tough *

If people with disabilities cant get to an RVM, it is just a case of tough sh!t.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069390#Comment_123069390

Agree 100%. Cans also not covered by the single use plastics directive (for obvious reasons)

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068610#Comment_123068610

Yes, the scrolling issue affects everyone, you have to wait for the screen to completely load the content of all replies and then it is usable.

Re-turn are funded through beverage producer fees, unclaimed deposits and the sell on value of recyclables.

Re-turn are made up of beverage producers. Nothing to do with Greyhound, Panda etc who lobbied against the scheme as it takes valuable recyclables out of their processing stream.
The directors of the company include representatives from major drinks producers and retailers, such as Heineken Ireland, Tesco Ireland, Diageo, Britvic Ireland, and the Clada Group

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/re-turn-directors-receive-400000-30156790

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123070373#Comment_123070373

While they aren't connected to Panda etc important to note they are connected to Repak somehow. Share the same registered address.

Citizen Six

Has this bulk deposit machine in Ireland been posted yet?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDwqso5II9c/?igsh=MW5qazNrN2JmMm9lbw==

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123071729#Comment_123071729

Yes it has.

AFAIK it's the only one.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123066317#Comment_123066317

So they're a quasi-quango...

poop emoji

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123072468#Comment_123072468

quango double plus good