The State of Music in the Mainstream!

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058352948/the-state-of-music-in-the-mainstream

Yep music is dead. It gas been fir the last two decades. As soon as you could not buy albums or singles in the shops music died.

Rooks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912717#Comment_122912717

Let's look at a very popular new "artist" in Chappel Roan.

Her new album has fourteen different songwriters credited with some songs having five different songwriters.

Any time I find a new "artist" I like, I look them up to read about the army of songwriters backing them.

It's songwriting by committee. Engineered for maximum profit. The very definition of manufactured pop.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122911648#Comment_122911648

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122911923#Comment_122911923

I know the butcher

rossie1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122911648#Comment_122911648

Technically an act who started in 2010 headlined last year ie Harry Styles.

Ed Sheeran would also be obvious guaranteed sell out if it happened, his first single released in 2011.

But I don't really think Slane is good measure of anything these days. I mean apart from Styles the only acts to headline Slane last decade are Metallica a band that started in 1981, GNR who started in 1985 and Foo Fighters an off-shoot of a band who themselves formed in 1987..

Rooks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934129#Comment_122934129

Did you read their post properly?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122933948#Comment_122933948

I was in a record shop in the last couple of weeks & bought new albums (on vinyl and CD) AND the latest Pet Shop Boys single (Two separate CDs)

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934667#Comment_122934667

Awe very good.

Rooks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934667#Comment_122934667

I'm glad to see vinyl making a resurgence. It's the most mindful way to listen to music, since it's difficult to skip tracks. You tend to just let it play in the intended sequence.

humberklog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122919033#Comment_122919033

I did, I was referring to the bit he said about Slane being known for bringing in the biggest New acts of the day…I listed a load of acts that that weren't New when they played Slane.

I should have bolded the part I was referring to.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934876#Comment_122934876

That meaning of your reply I didnt catch at all no worries.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934876#Comment_122934876

Right lets be pedantic. Ye some were already established acts who just hadn't played Slane yet, others were often new acts like the Verve. Either way, all original acts. The Boss had been around for years before he played Slane, but was at his "peak" when he played Slane.

So if you want to be pedantic, be so. I mean it was for new bands who became huge or the "band of the day", who wrote their own music and were an original act. That clear this up?

For everyone disputing what I said, I've yet to get a list of names of any original act since 2010 who could sell Slane, who write their own music. Someone even suggested Harry Styles. Buying your songwriting credits doesnt count I'm afraid

The Golden Miller

Same, Ren is brilliant. Came accross him with his remix of Bittersweet Symphony. He absolutely nailed it. When he says "this is the Britain I know, this is the Britain I love", it's poignant. Could swap that for Ireland. It's powerful.

Suffers with an illness too, but as hard as he uses new mediums to get "bigger", he should be far bigger. He's a wordsmith. One of the most gifted I've seen since Pete Dohery when it comes to lyrics.

Multi-instrumentalist too, a generational talent tbh, who'll never go as far as he should!

The Golden Miller

Again, its the knock on effect. It's not about listening to the radio, or who does. If you were selling music and got on the radio, it wasn't even just nationwide exposure, it resulted in commercial benefits all around. Just getting on BBC radio, even if no one listened, opened doors. Headline organisers too lazy to source new talent, just look at whos on BBC radio, what 15 year old girls bought.

Even with new mediums for people to promote their music, the music industry has moved to control all these avenues in different ways unfortunatley. Even if you promote your own stuff like the above mentioned Ren, and want creative control, you'll struggle to make inroads without the industrys push. And the industry don't want people who want creative control of their own music.

Ren had number 1 album, you'd think that success should be built on and pushed. But that success was in spite of the industry tbh, doing their best to contain him, or have creative or financial control from his output.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122933837#Comment_122933837

Again, its the knock on effect. It's not about listening to the radio, or who does. If you were selling music and got on the radio, it wasn't even just nationwide exposure, it resulted in commercial benefits all around. Just getting on BBC radio, even if no one listened, opened doors. Headline organisers too lazy to source new talent, just look at whos on BBC radio, what 15 year old girls bought.

Even with new mediums for people to promote their music, the music industry has moved to control all these avenues in different ways unfortunatley. Even if you promote your own stuff like the above mentioned Ren, and want creative control, you'll struggle to make inroads without the industrys push. And the industry don't want people who want creative control of their own music.

Ren had number 1 album, you'd think that success should be built on and pushed. But that success was in spite of the industry tbh, doing their best to contain him, or have creative or financial control from his output

thereiver

Harry styles is a good singer he has talent he can sell out arenas around the world I don't think his fans really care if he writes his songs .there's many genres of music .I think it's great that there's singer songwriters out there but that's only part of the pop music spectrum .

Yes if you get radio airplay it will help you to get more streams or sell CDs and get offered a chance to play at venues or make money touring I have never heard of ren I read sites like nme sterogum and rolllingstone salon.con and guardian UK music I like singers like Springsteen Lana del Rey joni mitchell but I think there seems to be less successful singer songwriters in 2024 as there

was in previous decades at least in the genre of pop music

Rooks

I'm just watching the Beach Boys documentary on Disney+, could you imagine an album like Pet Sounds being released these days?

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935304#Comment_122935304

He's not a singer songwriter though. He's akin to Robbie Williams. An "entertainer", singing songs wrote for him, and carefully cultivated by the music industry.

Ive no issue with that, theres always been manufactured music in the mainstream. My concern is the reason, and continued absence of real songwriters and acts. Harry Styles was just used as an example, of there being a lack of real original acts to play Slane, rather than putting him down for what he is

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935307#Comment_122935307

What a band. An no

Rooks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935310#Comment_122935310

I've no issue with manufactured pop. I like Chappel Roan, despite my post above. Elvis had a bunch of songs written for him.

I just miss the days when a band like Nirvana would also be part of popular culture. But as Rick Beato put it in that video, record labels aren't willing to back that sort of music anymore, preferring to sell a singular product such as Harry Styles, etc. It's a lot less risky for them, so it makes sense.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935334#Comment_122935334

Ren got a number one album, being clever enough to utilise all the mediums for "stream numbers" and "views". But the industry still wont push him as he wants to retain creative control of his music.

As you say the industry aren't willing to back him, despite having more talent in his little finger than Harry Styles.

This is Ren btw, for anyone intereted. A generational wordsmith!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwtEOp7pC1A

thereiver

I think it takes talent to go on stage and sing a song and keep an audience,s attention for an hour or more. He s a pop singer .he's not trying to be Bob Dylan or a latter day John lennon.elvis was a great singer who had great charisma and was also handsome .I don't think he was a great songwriter .

At least he's not destroying himself using drugs or having short affairs with young women .he seems to have a sensible lifestyle and he has the chance to have a long career in the music business

I think the music industry has very limited support unless you have hits in the charts and have a significant fanbase and x amount of streaming no,s or YouTube video views .

I think there's 1000s of talented singers and songwriters on streaming services but most will never be famous they won't get promoted by the music industry unless they get a viral video on YouTube or tik tok that pushes them into the public eye and gets millions of views

I think we need pop singers in a way as much as we need singer ,songwriters that write songs that have some commentary on modern life and political issues

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935396#Comment_122935396

I'm not disputing Harry Styles doesn't have talent to entertain a crowd. You seem to be under the notion, I'm having a go at him, I'm not, he is what he is and has a place in the "entertainment" industry for sure.

Really don't know what you mean by "latter" John Lennon though. He didn't start songwriting in his later years, did it from day 1. He revolutionised the music industry, creating what we know as "contemporary" music today. Due to his songwriting, guys like Elvis struggled, Lennon changed the game. The real king had arrived.

The Rolling Stones told by Decca, they had to start writing original music, covers didnt matter anymore. The Stones first few albums covers. Dylan a better lyricist than Lennon maybe, but wouldn't be doing what he did without Lennon. Lennon changed how music was recorded, wrote and consumed. Created "contemporary" music as we know it.

I'm just clarifying really. It wasn't a "latter" Lennon who became a songwriter, he always was. And the first to persist with his own music, original songs, and break through. It changed the game and the course of music history as we know it.

Everything we know as "modern music" today, goes back to and starts with John Lennon. Not a "latter" John Lennon, said like he took to songwriting over time!

Badly Drunk Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122933837#Comment_122933837

Yeah, Rickrolling started in 2008, and next thing you know…Rick Astley is playing Glastonbury in 2023!! Amazing!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122934735#Comment_122934735

Yes, I agree. However it's not always the best sound quality. It's case-by-case for me. I have always bought both formats. CD works better for longform pieces, classical, live recordings, tracks with quiet passages etc. Also genre box sets (e.g. the ones that Cherry Red release) are just impractical on vinyl. And for V/A compilations, CDs are much better - I remember buying the Deep Heat series in 1989-1991 and the vinyl was crammed with sides of 30+ minutes. Very difficult to cue up and when DJing with them, the gain had to go way up. If I put on a 12" next, you had to make a serious adjustment to the master volume.

In terms of a resurgence, vinyl is doing well but in terms of unit sales, it's only ahead of CD in the US.

In UK, Europe, Australia and Japan, new CDs still outsell new LPs.

thereiver

I meant harry styles is a pop star he's not trying to be the next Bob Dylan or be the voice of a generation.john Lennon was a good singer and a great songwriter since he joined the Beatles

i think modern music started sometime in the 50,s when rock and roll was born even before elvis starting making music

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122935820#Comment_122935820

Music in the 50s and before, was generally people experimenting, covering or putting different takes on older songs etc. Not that there was anything wrong with that. The Stones were doing it their first few albums. It was just the done thing.

The Beatles changed that though, particularly Lennon. They're the first real/modern band to come along, intent on releasing only original songs, or close to it. It changed the game. It's what made Elvis and Bill Haley etc suddenly seem obsolete. Whether you rank them as the best ever or not, they changed the course of modern music history, to what we have today.

Off the back of them a whole new generation of bands like the Kinks or established bands like the Stones, writing their own stuff. Kinks You Really Got Me, created that distored sound, and was evolved into heavy metal over the years. But that wouldn't have happened if the Beatles weren't writing their own songs, paving the way for the Kinks and others, in how the music industry started to evolve. Most modern genres and and contemporary music as we know it really, starts with the Beatles, and particularly John Lennon.

And it's why Elvis didn't like Lennon. Elvis was the king. But the real king then came along. Elvis simply couldn't do what Lennon did, and it made Elvis insecure tbh. Regardless of what you think of Lennon as a person, he changed the game. Most influential musician in modern times.

But what he started, is now in danger of disappearing

thereiver

Millions still listen to the Beatles Lennon still influences songwriters the Beatles are not forgotten I don't think he wrote any significant songs after he went solo except maybe happy Xmas war is over .there were many American bands like the beach boys who wrote thier own songs in the 70s.

I don't think Elvis Presley songs last eg they sound quaint and old fashioned

The Beatles best songs still sound fresh and powerful with interesting melodys and lyrics that are meaningful listen to a good singer singing Beatles songs in concert they don't sound outdated Elvis was the king of rock and roll but he never developed a new sound or wrote any songs .his music is stuck in the 60s and 70s .

thereiver

72 per cent of streaming is older music versus the rest is new music Of course there's mediocre songs in every decade people listen to the hits or songs from thier youth or rock music .many singers pop groups are simply forgotten .I think the singer songwriter persona became more important in the 60s with singers like Dylan Joni Mitchell writing about their life and their views on politics.

I think it's sad there's very few groups that get in the charts now .2 or 3 people singing together have a special sound different from one person whoever talented they are

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122939547#Comment_122939547

I know the Beach Boys were writing their own music, everyone was since John Lennon came along. Thats the point, Lennon changed the game. The Stones were going to be dropped if they didn't start writing original music too.

And as you say, The Beatles effectively killed off Elvis. The Beatles still sound fresh, as they invented what we know as contemporary music, and are still the modern day template!

pappyodaniel

"Before Elvis, there was nothin" - John Lennon