E-Scooter Legislation From Monday 19-May-2024

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150639#Comment_122150639

100kmh. In no way should they be ever used on public roads.

Battery packs are not as heavy aa you make out , unless you want to use a lead acid battery a 1kWh battery will

Only add 7kgs

Also the raised suspension means the centre of gravity is higher. Any bump/ pothole etc and you’ll be on your ear

the_amazing_raisin

Looks like they've clarified the guidelines for e-bikes as well

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0517/1449835-e-bikes/

250W max continuous power with more allowed for short bursts, pedal assist only and motor cuts out above 25km/h

Anything above that requires tax and insurance and must be road legal

I was amused that the RSA doesn't think it's time to talk about the quality of bike lanes. When will it be time, because around me some of the bike lanes look more like an off-road circuit?

Anyway I wonder if it'll be effective at all without significant Garda presence

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150777#Comment_122150777

they have another class: which requires them

To be registered and taxed but not insured

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/ee21c-e-moped/

of it has a throttle it needs insurance

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c2a3c-l1e-b-e-mopeds/

also e-scooters can not have seats

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/8a0ba-e-scooters/

the_amazing_raisin

It'd be cool if there was a way to switch between low and high power modes on an e-bikes

So you could go to pedal assist mode to use the bike lanes legitimately, and then could switch to higher power when you want to use the roads

Personally I like using my e-bikes as a pedal bike, but sometimes I can't help but envy the ones just motoring along

Of course, you'd still need to be road legal even when using the bike lanes

I imagine it's technically doable, but legally it'd be a dead end since it would be ripe for abuse

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150760#Comment_122150760

Please read my posts before quoting them and following up with nonsense I never said, or implied.

I posted that scooter as an example of range, not for speed. I said as much in the same post, second line, first paragraph.

The stated range is 50 miles (80km) but the real range would be closer to half that in the real world. Using your own math, 1kWh of Li-Ion battery weighs 7kg. It's actually more than 8kg, but let's say 7kg. So, the 2.5kWh in that scooter weighs 21kg. The battery alone therefore weighs more than the total allowable weight of the scooter. How am I suggesting the batteries weigh more than I am making out? The figures are easily accessible for anyone to see.

The raised suspension (on that model…which again was a weight example) has pros and cons. On our shítty roads, there are more pros to a raised suspension, which by the way is adjustable on any decent scooter.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150903#Comment_122150903

40km range is overkill. Just get a bike e-bike they are much more comfortable and safer for roads outside and inside urban areas

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150955#Comment_122150955

Overkill for who? When I commuted from the Dub subs to the city centre, it was about 12km each way, 24km return. After 2 years of daily use, you would want a decent buffer to keep the scooter working for your commute, so 40km range is not overkill. If I had an e-scooter at the time capable of doing that, at 25km/h, I would have left the car behind most days when I commuted to the CC.

Some people prefer bikes, while other prefer scooters. A scooter was much more comfortable for me. Safety for one over the other is debatable. Pros and cons again.

And again, I don't own a scooter, or a bike. I am speaking in general.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148640#Comment_122148640

What I dont knnow is what happens if you are guilty of an offense. you dont need a license so no points should be applied. but it does not say if its an auto confiscation or court or what.

If it doesn't meet the criteria of a Personal Powered Transport it means that it's a Powered Two Wheeler and you do need a licence for them so you can get penalty points and fine.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151036#Comment_122151036

the correct categories are here:

https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/5e95b-e-bikes-e-mopeds-and-e-scooters/#:~:text=From%2020%20May%202024%2C%20users,categories%20for%20light%20electric%20vehicles.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150902#Comment_122150902

I have zero envy of those on so called e-bikes that are just moving along with no pedalling, sometimes at very high speed and sometimes on pavements too. I wonder how much it will cost to insure them.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151341#Comment_122151341

Yeah well whatever about the riders, the bikes still look like a lot of fun

It's important to remember that the problem of bikes and scooters misbehaving on roads existed long before electric versions came along

You give people a fast way of bypassing traffic, then some of them will be more enthusiastic about how they do the bypassing

This should be stopped by proper road policing, so it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next few months

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151341#Comment_122151341

mopeds, not E bikes

lots of a scum bags with scramblers versions flying around parks dealing drugs

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c2a3c-l1e-b-e-mopeds/

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151668#Comment_122151668

I said so called e-bikes, meaning not e-bikes.

Kaisr Sose

Agree with what will happen in next few months. I doubt vey much they are prepared. There is no info campaign abour the need for a licence, tax or insurance, and the insurance companies are not promoting insurance for them either. Even if you want to be compliant, how do you do it?

My problem with these mopeds is that they brought loads of people with no idea of safety, rules or just common sense onto the roads, mixing with regular cyclists. Without these non legal E things, they would never be on the road as most were always too lazy to cycle.

They have given all genuine, rules of the road abiding cyclists (of which there are many) a bad rep. Motorists just see the bike and 'all cyclist mentality' creeps in.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151797#Comment_122151797

What I would love to see is a proper licensing and insurance system in place for e-mobility for a certain motor power, or speed capability. As has been mentioned earlier, the government and insurance industry have pretty much killed the legal use of 50cc mopeds. 20-30 years ago, they were plentiful, legal and insured for a reasonable price. I had one when I was 16-18 and my insurance was in the region of £300. Tax was about £50. It gave me the freedom to commute to work without relying on our crappy public transport system.

Give people the option to properly register, tax and insure these. Have the limit at 80kmph, which is about what a 50cc moped is capable of. Make it compulsory to wear helmets, and have working lights, indicators and horn. Have license plates on them. Have a simpler licensing requirement that doesn't mean the user would need CBT lessons, but would need to pass a basic test. It wouldn't be perfect, but would be a whole lot better than what we have now and what we will soon have.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151847#Comment_122151847

50cc is closer to 65kmh unless you Mod them.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151847#Comment_122151847

How would people pass the basic test without lessons? The reason why IBT was brought in was because too many people were getting on bikes with no clue how to use them, IBT teaches them the basics. If you don't want lessons, and a test, you can stick below 25km/h.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151864#Comment_122151864

The mopeds I owned were a Suzuki Katana and a Gilera DNA. The tope speed on these was 80km/h. I never modified my mopeds. They were restricted to 50km/h until the first service which was about 1k miles.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122152183#Comment_122152183

Without giving it in depth thought, I would propose a day in the classroom to cover all the safety and rules followed a tailored theory test and followed by a short practical test in a controlled environment.

The reason is two fold.

1. The same rules for e-bikes and e-scooters largely apply to the non motorised variants.
2. It would encourage and enable a safer use of these vehicles prior to moving onto the current class of mopeds/motorbikes which require tax and insurance and a real license. More of the former would have gained real road experience before jumping onto the much faster latter.

Of course this is just an off the top of my head suggestion and would need ironing out, but it’s a good start and is far better than what has been brought in which will lead to many breaking the new laws and no way to bring the powerful scooters into the legal fold.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122152401#Comment_122152401

the top speed of the katana was about 42 mph or 67km. Unless you include going down hills 😂

The speed limit in cities is 50kmh or 30kmh.

The top speed of the DNA 50 is 29mph or 47kmh.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122152514#Comment_122152514

I owned both of these, including a Yamaha Aerox. I know what top speeds I reached.

82 on the katana.

77 on the dna.

81 on the aerox.

these were on the flat straight, coast road, Sutton where the speed indicator is to this day.

Now, if someone is fat, that will reduce the top speed of course.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122152401#Comment_122152401

Without giving it in depth thought, I would propose a day in the classroom to cover all the safety and rules followed a tailored theory test and followed by a short practical test in a controlled environment.

You've just described IBT minus the test, only difference is IBT is 2 days not 1.

https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/services/s1.8-learner-driver-resources/cbt_initial-_syllabus_sept_2010-review-2020.pdf?sfvrsn=ab66fe62_5

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122154053#Comment_122154053

Pretty much. A shorter version for a simplified license to enable people to get very basic road safety knowledge before riding on a scooter or e-bike capable of speeds between 20 and (I would suggest) 50km/h. I think anything on 2 wheels faster than 50km/h should require an A1 license.

It would be an easy upsell to get most to undertake the A1 IBT.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122154118#Comment_122154118

You need an AM licence for anything which goes over 25km/h and it's already a requirement for an A1 licence for anything which can exceed 45km/h, so what you are proposing is what's already required or included in the new legislation.

IBT is Initial Basic Training, what less can you teach someone?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122154198#Comment_122154198

IBT is Initial Basic Training, what less can you teach someone?

The amount of nonsense in the IBT could be slashed to a half day intense theory and a controlled environment basic run through on an e-scooter and e-bike.

What less can you teach someone? For a start, there need not be any talk about where the choke is. Talk about every single aspect of gloves, boots, visors and clothes is just way beyond what needs to be known by someone looking to ride an e-scooter or e-bike at speeds of 20-50km/h. Kill switches and mirrors, avoiding damage to the vehicle if it falls over 😂. FFS, do I need to go on? Half of the "training" could be deleted and it would still be too much and irrelevant for the purpose I have stated.

CramCycle

Make it part of the transition year syllabus, very simple to do and you could easily make a hands on experience part of it.

the_amazing_raisin

One good argument against the 16 year old age limit I heard was that for a lot of secondary school kids their E-scooters were their way of getting to and from school

If they don't have bikes then that's just going to result in their parents driving them, meaning more traffic

They really could have left the age limit lower, maybe 14 would be better

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162627#Comment_122162627

the argument falls apart when a person says instead of buying them a scooter buy them a bike. ..

Bikes promote healthy living. Scooter promotes lazy living and teenage obesity

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122162822#Comment_122162822

Yeah but if they've already gotten scooters then I imagine their parents won't be buying them any nice bikes soon

My point is more that this legislation is just going to drive young people back towards car travel, which we're supposed to be avoiding

As a society we should be finding a way to make scooters work, not making them overly restrictive.

I agree there should be a limit on motor power and speed, and even weight to a degree

However I fail to see how a 14 year old somehow cannot handle a lightweight scooter restricted to 20km/h, but is able to ride an ebike which is assisted up to 25km/h

I don't really see the point in any age restriction if the speed and power is already restricted. If there was a higher speed category for E-scooters then it would make sense for that to be age restricted

beggars_bush

Time to start confiscating scooters off scrotes

phester28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122146718#Comment_122146718

NO, Germany rules limit the speed to 20kph, The IRISH rules is a "MAX Design" speed of 20kph. this would need to be reflected on the name plate of the scooter.

Also needing 2 wheel breaking is going to rule out 99% of all available scooters. only the crazy fast scooters has 2 wheel breaking.