Neighbours tree blocking sunlight - possible options

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129884#Comment_122129884

So you want "compromise" once the compromise is what you want?

I've large trees in my garden and very large hedging, but I'm rural and I find the privacy the trees afford and the nature aspect, both very appealing.

The compromise for the OP is to accept the tree and stop searching for faux outrage and reasons such as the "solar" angle which is just BS

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129954#Comment_122129954

Where did I say I'd ask the tree cutter to wait?

Trim the trespassing tree until it's flush with the boundary.

I'd advise the neighbour that this is happening in the future whenever it suits the contractor and ask them as per law if they want their cuttings left at their door.

Im within my rights, they don't own my property over which their tree hangs.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130026#Comment_122130026

So when you said wait until you’re not home, you meant you? Why would the neighbour intervene if you are only cutting your side, and there is nothing stopping the neighbour intervening if your contractor does anything other than what you are legally entitled to.

You have now gone from various methods of poisoning neighbours trees, which you now know you could be criminally liable for, to some sort of avoidance of confrontation by thinking if you are not there, the neighbour cannot intervene with the contractor. A word of advice, and I know this again from experience, contractors will not get involved in neighbour disputes, particularly if they think either party would place the blame on them. If you are not there and the neighbour goes ballistic, the contractor will down tools and wait for you both to sort it out.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129772#Comment_122129772

The OP may be correct.

A quick google search threw up lots of articles saying what the OP said

This is just from one:

In fact, studies have shown that shading just one cell in a panel can reduce the solar power output of the entire panel by a whopping 50-80%.

Discodog

Maybe the tree surgeon could talk to the neighbour & offer them a deal as he has all his equipment there.

yagan

My point about getting a contractor to do the job you're legally entitled to do is that you have a third party witness if the neighbour exhibits threatening or intimidating behaviour.

Follow the letter of the law, be nearby so if the neighbour calls the gardai you can have them confirm in person to your neighbour that you're within your property rights to lop their tree where it trepasses your boundary.

Is the most they deserve for their in consideration.

Or just get it done while they're on holiday. Keep the cuttings for them to accept or refuse as is their legal right.

You could do it yourself but using a contractor deflects. As long as your boundary is respected there's zero they do.

If they refuse the cuttings then you've got firewood. I got two months firewood from my neighbours hedge that I cut back to the boundary.

geographica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128975#Comment_122128975

So currently there is no law in Ireland that states you must do this

geographica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130026#Comment_122130026

What law for cuttings? Not in Ireland

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129522#Comment_122129522

This is know as privacy and enjoyment of one’s property which they are entitled to what they like in their garden and has being said the tree was planted by the builder.

Discodog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130268#Comment_122130268

https://www.treecouncil.ie/trees-and-the-law

My neighbour’s tree is overhanging my garden.
Do I have the right to prune back the branches?

A landowner may cut off any tree branches which over-hangs his/her property without giving notice to the owner of the tree providing the branches which overhang are interfering with the property and causing a nuisance,  i.e. (a tort which involves an act or omission which amounts to unreasonable interference with, disturbance to, or annoyance to another person’s in the exercise of their rights).

 

It is not permitted to enter the neighbour’s property. This includes air space if using a mobile elevated work platform. It is not permitted to cut back branches beyond the boundary. Any work carried out must not render the tree unsafe, dangerous, prone to infection or irreparably damaging the tree.

 

As a good neighbour, one should inform the adjoining landowner before carrying out work.

A landowner may not cut down the tree or enter the land of the tree owner without permission.

 

It is unlawful to ring bark (a process involving the complete removal of a strip of bark from around the entire circumference of either a branch or trunk of a tree) or otherwise injure trees in such a manner as to cause them to die or decay.

 

All cuttings must be given back to the owner of the tree or at least offered back. If the owner of the tree does not want the cuttings, they must be disposed of in a responsible way and should not be left on the tree owner’s property without permission.

geographica

yes I read that but what’s the act? What’s the statute. Afaik there isn’t one in Ireland

Deub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129974#Comment_122129974

Eh? What I want? Where did you read that in my post?

Is it too much to ask from the OP to enjoy their house as it was previous years?

I mean it is not rocket science. We all make an effort to live peacefully. Yes, they can keep the tree but impacting your neighbour is not ok.

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128886#Comment_122128886

There's a row of houses whose back gardens back on to the side of my house. The tree I have the most issue with shades my back garden. The other trees I could live with but I wouldn't be getting solar panels because of them - the one shading the front of my house is about 6metre away rather than 15m and blocks the morning sun to my roof whilst another shading the side of my house is about 1 metre away and blocks the afternoon sun to my roof - not all my roof but it just takes one panel to be shaded for the array not to function.

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129357#Comment_122129357

I think the wife is more militant than the husband on this matter though I haven't spoken to her - just going by references the husband made.

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129751#Comment_122129751

I think it's a birch. Not great pictures but it gives you an idea of the tree and the shade it casts

Tree (2).jpg

Shade 3.JPG

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129772#Comment_122129772

Are you saying this isn't the case any longer:

HOW DOES SOLAR PANEL SHADING WORK?

Traditionally, solar panels are connected in a series of parallel ‘strings’. This means if one panel is covered by shade from a tree or chimney, then all the connected panels within the string will also lose power. This is because the panels are wired together in such a way that the output is reduced to that of the weakest panel within the system. Shading just one cell in a module to half causes the output power of the whole module to fall to half. No matter how many cells there are in the string, completely shading one cell will cause the output power of the module to fall to zero.

https://www.deegesolar.co.uk/solar_panels_shading/#:~:text=This%20means%20if%20one%20panel,weakest%20panel%20within%20the%20system.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130915#Comment_122130915

Read it in the full context of how it is written. - and who is writing it.

It says "some" research claim "up to" 40% efficiency is lost in shading.

Then it goes on to explain that using them to install solar, this is very much minimised.

In other words, unless you try and install yourself or use cowboys and haven't a clue what to do, shading is not a big issue.

On top of this, the OP says shading is an issue in the evening only - and at GROUND level. And even then you are looking at the evening where the sun is shining. - Not many of them in the past few months. Its a deciduous tree, so not much of an issue from Oct to March either.

What I'm trying to say is that if the OP tries to use this as a reason to have the tree cut down, it will fail abysmally.

Generally speaking solar will work at average 75%-80% of efficiency on a bright day without sun. On heavy cloud days, such as today, it will drop to 60% or less.

jonnreeks

How long have been neighbours and have had this tree growing between you? 😗

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131865#Comment_122131865

Literally all solar panel installers state the same thing:

https://www.google.com/search?q=shading+of+solar+panels&rlz=1C1GCEA_enIE1000IE1000&oq=shading+of+solar+panels&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCQgAEEUYORiABDIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMggIAxAAGBYYHjIKCAQQABgPGBYYHjIICAUQABgWGB4yDQgGEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgHEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyCggIEAAYgAQYogQyCggJEAAYgAQYogTSAQoxMjU5OGowajE1qAIIsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#ip=1

Also, I'm the OP and I did not say shading is an issue in the evening only and at the ground level - both are incorrect.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129330#Comment_122129330

Ivy most definately can smother a leylandii and stop it from growing, especially when they are in hedge form. The Ivy will reach the top and prevent any new growth as it will all be in shade.

House beside me leverages this to keep the hedge at the desired height, but if you let the Ivy run, you wil end up with lots of dead spots in the face of the hedge.

Rowley Birkin QC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122122371#Comment_122122371

How the hell does this have 9 "thanks"?

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131910#Comment_122131910

The trees have been growing since the houses were built ~20 years ago - inevitably it only becomes an issue when the height becomes excessive.

I'm not really interested in the rights and wrongs of it anyway - my original question was whether anyone has had experience of seeking a work order under Section 45, Land Conveyancing, Law Reform Act 2009 - it seems not!

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130533#Comment_122130533

There isnt afaik, its common law abatement of nuisance - smith v giddy and lemon v webb.

There appear to be people suggesting the op trims back the tree in such a way as to render it unstable, this is bad advice as the op may then become liable for any damage caused.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122130487#Comment_122130487

The problem with this is, a lot of the time, removing the over hanging branches will leave the tree unsafe, so then you are stuck with nothing you can do.

I know this from painful experience where the "neighbour" in question is the council who planted crappy, cheap sycamore trees 5 feet from the boundary hedge 30 years ago and they are now almost touching the house, must be 20+ feet hanging over the garden and killing the lawn and fence beneath it due to lack of sunlight.

Occasionally they will give it a light prune, but that might be every 5 years and it does nothing to help the situation, the tree is 40+ feet tall and the ground slopes down 10 feet to the house, the tree also leans down towards the house so when it falls, it will fall into the house.

Dozens of letters and emails later, council still does nothing. The roots broke the path, so they redid the path this year!

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122131990#Comment_122131990

I'm very conscious of this - if I cut a third of the tree it may die in which case I could be criminally liable. The tree needs to be pruned regularly to keep it under control. The neighbour indicated that he intends to allow nature take its course, i.e. not prune at all, which is just storing up a bigger problem for the future which is why I'm contemplating seeking a work order now.

magicbastarder

the bigger immediate issue i see is that if you've a 10m tree 6m from your house, is the physical danger to your house - possibly with windthrow; that's within reach of your house. or with roots.

birch wouldn't be too problematic regarding roots and foundations IIRC, and wouldn't cause huge damage if it fell against the house probably, but i suspect you'd have greater luck tackling it from that angle than a light-related one.

bullpost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132007#Comment_122132007

Possibly a follow up conversation with neighbour to point out increasing frequency of storms due to climate change and that he would be liable to any damage to your property if a tree falls?

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132168#Comment_122132168

I don't see that as an option given how he left it - i.e. closed the door in my face having hardly got a word in edgeways. If we have another conversation it will be about the legal action I'll probably be taking. Even then I'm inclined to correspond by letter in future as it provides a record.

GreeBo

I would send them a registered letter informing them of the risk that their tree is posing to your house due to its size and proximity. If you can get a solicitor to do it all the better. Then if and when the tree does come down you can show that you warned them. Also, the fact that you now have evidence to show this might encourage them to do something about it now.

Silver Birch grow very high, but usually taking off some limbs lower down can have a significant effect on the amount of shade they create, without impacting the tree visually too much.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132007#Comment_122132007

From the photo you posted, cutting it back does not seem of much benefit due it's height. The tree just looks inappropriate in a compact garden and close proximity to other buildings. I can't offer advice on getting a works order but my focus would be on that. Have you spoken to your insurance company about this matter ? They have an interest in this should the tree cause issues that give rise to a claim.