Would you be in favour of Migrant checkpoints in Northern Ireland? - read OP before posting

nullzero

We need to beef up our processes for reviewing these people's applications.

We should be assessing people within days not weeks or months.

A huge number of people arriving here are chancing their arm because of our reputation for being a soft touch, the UK threatening them with deportation to Rwanda isn't the catalyst for tent cities popping up in Dublin, this problem predates that and we all know it.

The waffle pushed by the usual hard line loons on the left here about anyone having a problem with packing young men into tents, being funded by the far right in the UK or Christian groups in the US or whatever other insane conspiratorial claptrap they're spouting today is getting preposterous now.

Yes the likes of the few real far right idiots in Ireland will see this situation as an opportunity to rally support but this isn't an issue based in intolerance or hatred it's simply an issue of pitting people against each other for dwindling resources and if we keep doing it, we will end up with a real problem with intolerance and hatred and it will have been brought to life by the very people supposedly working to prevent it.

Get Real

Not an option at all at all. To check for migrants, you have to check everyone.

Anybody wanting this, how do you expect it to work practically? Pulling in cars, trucks, busses. Enforcing a hard border essentially and causing traffic jams. Even if it was 1 in every ten vehicles, the slowing down and moving lanes of everyone else would be chaos. And how do you know there's nobody in the other 9? Pointless.

How can we have a common travel area, if we stop traffic and freight?

In addition, do you want checkpoints on the M1 causing havoc, when someone who really wants to could just walk down a random rural road, of which there are 100s.

Even if stopped, all a person has to do is say they are here to claim asylum, as they do in airports already. So it'd be purely for show to satisfy some weird desire of a few, and be a nightmare for every other practical reason.

REDBULL68

No more border on this Island, ye can stop the buses and trains in louth, won't make a difference, till the Irish, British and French reach an agreement they will keep coming.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058350551/would-you-be-in-favour-of-migrant-checkpoints-in-northern-ireland

When someone uses a propaganda rag as a source of information it can't be taken seriously. Go find a proper source of information to start with and then perhaps understand why that will not happen, no matter who many rigged polls they make. But I do hope they keep up the BS because in the end they will learn the lesson that when you play silly games you will win silly prizes - in this case a physical border in the Irish Sea. Because that is the solution the guarantors of the Good Friday Agreement (EU, US, UN).

TheChizler

Witnessed migrant checks on the train from Italy to France a couple of years ago. The French police marched past all the white passengers straight to all those with brown skin demanding documentation. They only pulled a couple of people off the train. Would never want to see anything like that here.

beeker1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105364#Comment_122105364

You say " a few far right idiots" , you obviously don't read the papers ! 82% are calling for border checks , not idiots just average men & women from all walks of life ! Our last census showed a 1 in 5 not born here , that's 20% , a far higher number than the UK or France , two colonialists who pillaged the world ! All we did was export well educated kids who became captains of industry & pillars of their communities , not a bunch of migrant tourists looking to take advantage of our generosity !

JP Liz V1

There needs to be proper checks at every enter point into Ireland so yes I would be in favour for NI checks too

3DataModem

As much as I dislike the situation, I think the brits have a perfectly fair argument.

A bunch of lads arriving from the EU, marching through the UK, and heading back to the EU. They don't have any obligation to put a stop to this. We made our bed with the EU.

Of course we could still stop it if we wanted, but the brits know we have no desire to have a land border up north, for our own entirely valid reasons. So from their perspective it's "shrug" not their problem.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105220#Comment_122105220

80% of asylum applicants are coming over the NI border.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/04/23/80-of-asylum-applications-to-be-processed-within-three-months-under-new-eu-rules/

Actually, scratch that, it's 90%.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0430/1446420-cabinet-migration-legislation/

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105397#Comment_122105397

You know how they expect it to work, they just don't have the guts to say the quiet part out loud.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105572#Comment_122105572

And how would border checks stop that?

considering they are claiming asylum

Dav010

Majority of Irish people want a hard border where all people, and cargo are stopped and checked entering the South?

After all that was done to remove the hard border, we would be the laughing stock of the world. What do you think the Irish version of the Mexican coyotes would be called? The badgers maybe.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105572#Comment_122105572

How do people claim asylum?

What I mean is, what's the mechanism?

What do they have to do to claim asylum?

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122104904#Comment_122104904

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122104735#Comment_122104735

There's over 300 crossings to northern Ireland. The only way to man them all with checkpoints would be to block the majority of them. Then build massive checkpoints on a few crossings.

Then check the 177,000 lorries, 208,000 vans, and 1,850,000 cars that cross the border each month. Just because you're not checking the goods in a van/lorry doesn't mean you don't have to check it for people.

And if a migrant is found, they can then ask for asylum.

So really what you guys want is millions to be spent, massive disruption to cross border trade and travel, so a migrant can claim asylum at the border rather than in Dublin.

Smart guys, really smart.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105570#Comment_122105570

Here's the thing: they do have an obligation to stop this. It's an aspect of the common travel area.

One feature of the CTA is that if I arrive in, say, Heathrow in transit to Ireland, I go through immigration at Heathrow. Once the immigration officer learns that I am in transit to Dublin, he doesn't ask himself if I am entitled to enter the UK; he asks himself if I am entitled to enter Ireland. So UK immigration officers apply Irish immigration rules. This works the other way around if someone arrives in, say, Shannon in transit to London.

Part of this deal is that if UK stuffs up and admits me when I'm not, in fact, entitled to be in Ireland, if/when I'm detected in Ireland the Irish authorities can send me back to the UK. The UK admitted me to the CTA; I'm their problem. And, again, vice versa if someone is admitted at Shannon and travels on to the UK, despite not being entitled to enter the UK; they can be sent back to Ireland.

So, yeah, there's a long-standing bilateral arrangement about this between IRL and UK. It's part of the CTA; it predates both countries' EU membership; it's unaffected by Brexit.

It operates with respect to asylum seekers as weill as with respect to any other traveler. There are a couple of extra hoops but, yes, if UK admits someone who travels on to Ireland, isn't entitled to be in Ireland, and applies for asylum in Ireland, Ireland can send him back to the UK to apply there (and vice versa).

Until now. What has happened in recent weeks is that IRL has started complaining publicly about the number of asylum seekers entering via the UK, and the UK has responded by saying they won't take back asylum seekers from IRL any more. This was an astonishingly stupid thing for the Irish government to do; right now the UK government has very little room for manouevre and absolutely zero political capital; if you pick a fight with them about migrants of course they're going to do the perfidious Albion thing; what else can they do?

And this is why the question of policing the border comes up; if the UK unilaterally terminates one of the agreed arrangements that keep the border open, can IRL still deal with an open border or does it have to accept that, despite everything, the UK can bring about the closure of the Irish land border?

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105584#Comment_122105584

I can just imagine them traipsing across the hills of cavan singing their anthem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIyixC9NsLI

whisky_galore

People aren't stupid, they'll find ways around the hundreds of km of largely unguarded border. Unless you make it like North Korea / South Korea.

Just make Ireland unattractive enough as a destination for unskilled migrants. Job done.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105510#Comment_122105510

"All we did was export well educated kids who became captains of industry & pillars of their communities"

I hope that's a joke lol

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105443#Comment_122105443

Try as you might to (patently obviously) astrotruf this claim into reality, "hur dur, the people I don't like would approve of this so it must be the wrong course of action and my position should be in opposition regardless of the facts", is more of a lefty type 'broke brained thinking' thing. I could give a toss if 'the Unionists would approve' of this or not. A stopped clock is right twice a day. There's a problem and the fix is obvious. Refuse entry to the state to those that don't have a right to enter the state at the border.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105173#Comment_122105173

The majority of those passionate flag wavers do not give a fiddlers about the 6 counties, well except when they go up there for cheap booze and the likes.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106736#Comment_122106736

Engaging in a bit of stereotyping are we?

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106795#Comment_122106795

Someone engaging in stereotypes in a debate about immigration?

That's novel.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106670#Comment_122106670

So you want to turn the clock back 30 and re-establish the border checks?

And how are you going to patrol all the back roads and fields that criss-cross the border? Remember, by the time these people have reached the South, they have already outwitted the British who had a head start on us, are more motivated and organised, and had to make their way in probably a few cases, across the English Channel in a RIB. You think dodging a checkpoint on a main road will pose an issue?

LambshankRedemption

I voted no in the poll for a number of reasons.

1. First and foremost, seemingly you can arrive in Dublin Airport and lose your passport somewhere between the plane and border control and still be let in.
2. Michael Martin said that migrants were coming in from NI, but he never gave numbers. We could be talking 2 or 20 or 200. Even 200 pales in comparison to the thousands that have come in by air and are let in any way.
3. Lack of enforcement. You send the migrant back over the border, they get on another bus and get past the checkpoint the next time.
4. It would seriously inconvenience all the people who cross the border everyday and have been for years, and due to fuzzy numbers.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105597#Comment_122105597

Absolutely. And this is before we even touch on the fact that many of us here, in our lifetime (and I say this also as someone from the Newry area), can vividly recall the fact that the border was once manned by an armed military force complete with checkpoints, massive blocks dropped on country backroads, watchtowers and the RAF patrolling the skies. Despite this — people, weapons and smuggled goods still flowed across.

So, we have already seen the limitations inherent in that kind of border, so what do people really think is going to be achievable with border checks that won't come anywhere close to that level of effort? And this is also in a context where the all-island economy and socioeconomic links between North and South are even more developed now than they were during the Troubles.

I just don't see how the downsides fail to outweigh the potential upsides of hardening the border.

Strumms

there have been identified approximately 208 border crossings between NI and the Republic. The length of the border is approximately 310 miles…

You’d need a force of thousands to man it……close to 10,000 by my rough yet very conservative guesstimate.

tohaltuwi

Yes we could try spot checks but I can see the many obstacles that everyone else has stated. I do think we need to show some muscle and deport those who are likely to be purely economic migrants. I’ve lost my passport and can’t get one in time for an upcoming journey to the UK with Ryanair, so had to make alternative arrangements. These lads (mostly lads) are coming here in their droves without passports, no sweat.

Strumms

the vast majority of EU citizens want changes and to have tighter controls on immigration / protection.

Yet the EU as a political organisation are fighting tooth and nail to to keep the current situation.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105364#Comment_122105364

We need to beef up our processes for reviewing these people's applications.

We should be assessing people within days not weeks or months.

And how do you propose we do that.

I'm no expert but I believe that the reason for the delays are because the process of investigating an asylum claim is not straightforward.

Let's say a guy arrives in Ireland, claims his name is Simon something or other and he wants asylum because he's from a war torn region of the DRC and if he goes back there he's not safe.

The only paperwork he has is false because he needed false papers in the first place to flee.

The process in Ireland has to investigate all this to see if he is telling the truth.

Do you think that is an easy process?

They have to contact someone or some organization in the war torn region of the DRC to try and establish if this guy is telling the truth, they have to establish if he is who he claims he is, they have to establish if he is at risk and how much risk.

Do you think that could be achieved in a matter of days?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106965#Comment_122106965

Exactly. How do you determine who someone is if they're from some totally corrupt basket case of a country?

I don't really see any viable solutions. I always thought that sooner or later there'll be machine guns on euro borders gunning people down, as the flow of people is going to become so much worse than it is now, which will give rise to all kind of crazy people in power.