Would you be in favour of Migrant checkpoints in Northern Ireland? - read OP before posting

Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122107805#Comment_122107805

Come up to, say, the Diamond in Carndonagh, with a soap box and a megaphone, and proclaim that. Wear a good pair of runners.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110734#Comment_122110734

TBF, there are a lot of words there that they locals wouldn’t understand.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110734#Comment_122110734

Thanks for reminding me of yet another reason to enforce the border: the tolerance for violence and lawlessness that so many of our northern neighbours display so proudly.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110826#Comment_122110826

Carndonagh is in Donegal.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110832#Comment_122110832

I stand corrected. It seems it's @Ronald Binge Redux who's the one proud to threaten violence when he can't logically disagree with someone else's views.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110724#Comment_122110724

if anything your last two paragraphs strengthen the pro border controls argument - a scary thought really - though not sure how much cash work is really going in this day and age.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122109336#Comment_122109336

I suspect that you're not arguing in good faith here but the comparison to the Israel-Palestine border is a pretty wild one. I mean, there are hard borders between countries with generally peaceful relations (US and Canada for example) that you could have used as a much more analogous example — but for whatever reason you decided to choose the border between two sides of a violent and bloody conflict.

The problem with a hard border in Ireland is that it is politically, practically, socially and economically disadvantageous to pretty much everyone on the island (the North voted against Brexit after all) and having migrant checkpoints probably only succeeds in creating more problems than it's worth for a gain which seems only optical (and to be honest, I think the optics would turn pretty foul pretty quickly).

event

All the people saying there should be border checks, how close to the border do you live?

Absolute pie in the sky stuff.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058350551/would-you-be-in-favour-of-migrant-checkpoints-in-northern-ireland

Being the Daily Mail this survey result is likley fabricated.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110957#Comment_122110957

Yeah, I think that there is a tendency (among some) to have an abstract view on the border — for a lot of the population their only "interaction" with it will be crossing the border on the M1 or other main roads. Even if you put checks on those main roads, which would cause major disruption, you're still left with the headache of how you deal with the countryside and myriad of backroads between Cullaville and Castlebayney and all the other places along the border that are effectively a single seamless community.

The most I can really ever see being achieved is spot checks in the form of pulling the odd car or suspicious vehicle over — but even then I'm not really sure what achieves meaningfully.

Of course, the other option is reunification 😜

Cluedo Monopoly

Has anyone figured out why McEntee and Harris were sending 100 Gardai to the border last week? For "frontline" immigration work. It was all a bit confusing and then Sunak made them retract.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111074#Comment_122111074

Yep the NI border was always a sieve. Impossible to put meaningful immigration checks in place.

jmayo

For all the people bleating about border checks between ROI and NI, we have actual border checks at Dublin airport, Dublin and Rosslare ports.

What fooking use is it to have border checks when you just allow people through who legally have no right to enter.

Does anyone remember the name Mohamed Morei?

Well he was the guy that Gardai encountered in Dundalk who then supposedly gave him directions to Dublin and how to claim asylum.

He decided he would like to first slaughter some people and unfortunately legitimate legal immigrant to Ireland 24-year-old Yosuke Sasaki was killed.

BTW how many here realise Morei is sitting in Central Mental Hospital, or at least was, after being found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity.

I wonder will he be deported?

Firstly order checks are unenforceable on border with NI and secondly we don't even properly enforce laws where we already do have them.

We are a joke.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111325#Comment_122111325

Yes, though I don't know how you propose to have any system which in all cases prevents the occurrence of any major crime committed by any person who entered Ireland as a migrant or asylum seeker / refugee. That is not to say that the system cannot or should not be reviewed and improved, but it gets tiresome when people roll out this "hey, look at this example of a person who should not have been allowed into the country, isn't this country such a joke?!" — as if you apparently have the answers to utterly ensuring beyond all doubt that only people who won't do bad things will ever be allowed into the country and will otherwise always be apprehended before they do that bad thing.

Then on top of that, I don't know why the guy wasn't deported. Do you? Deportations are something which lots of the apparently no-nonsense immigration systems struggle with, including the US.

Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122110844#Comment_122110844

I'm just a old pussycat. The argument to close the border is as popular up here as Holy Water would be in an Orange Lodge. But then again I suspect that none of ye would have a clue about Donegal anyway.

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111074#Comment_122111074

Like here is one for ye. A school bus leaves Crossmaglen every day to takes kids to school in Dundalk. Are all those kids to have their passports with them, like some people proposed? And if little Mickey loses his passport in school, will he be stranded on the south side of the border until he can get a new passport?

What will they do in the Cooley mountains, have people up at the mast making sure people arent climbing Flagstaff and walking across?

Its an idiotic suggestion made by people who have no actual way the world works.

scottser

Hey, I know. What if we used the money for extra border controls to build housing?

*ducks for cover

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111564#Comment_122111564

Exactly, went to school in Newry myself and a fair few lads who came in everyday from Louth. And that's only a small example of the complexity of cross border movement at every moment of every day.

The thing that (some) people don't understand is that the reason a hard border and migrant checkpoints aren't very workable at the border with NI is for the very same reason imposing a border between Connacht and Munster would be unworkable — because you are attempting to create a hard border between two places that operate as one community on either side and who are all Irish and who have absolutely zero appetite to be in any way compliant with making it work the way it would need to work to stop migration.

Randycove

creating a border would just mean an additional revenue stream for the people who “inadvertently” built their houses straddling it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111325#Comment_122111325

What fooking use is it to have border checks when you just allow people through who legally have no right to enter.

Those claiming asylum do legally have a right to enter while their claim is processed.

munchkin_utd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111926#Comment_122111926

there is already such a group and they seem to be very well off indeed with lavish weddings and gravestones the size of a small chapel

as for sealing the border, thats not going to happen. The british army even did a survey back in the 70s where they worked out what would be needed to seal the border and you end up with massive walls, ditches, moates , watchtowers etc costing the equivalent of many billions of Euro in todays money, and even then not guaranteed to stop everyone (which is why they didnt do it)

Even scale that back to a round the clock presence on all 300 crossings with no infrastructure, thats 900 gardai working in 3 x 8hour shifts but realistically you'd need to multiply that by 3 or 4 to cover for holidays or have more on main crossings so looking at 4000 or more gardai - in order to stop what is barely a few 100 people

Cop on , seriously

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111945#Comment_122111945

They do need to move them, but abandoning them with no money is just going to cause people to turn to crime.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111844#Comment_122111844

they are legally allowed pass through safe countries and then claim asylum. if that wasn't the case we'd only have asylum seekers in the med countries.

flancmange

Can't house anyone, irish or not,

Cant provide necessary and timely healthcare,

No creches,

School places next to impossible,

Less and less teachers and gardai,

Increasing amounts of people arriving,

Increasing anger

Increasing violence

Solutions? Cant do this, cant do that, that would be impossible, this is impractical, that isn't a solution, this will create worse problems.

Let me tell you, this whole muthafukka is gonna explode, baby. BOOM

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111564#Comment_122111564

Sometimes you have to look past small inconveniences for greater good.

If proper immigration control was implemented at the ports of entry here and free movement of UK and Irish citizens only enforced as it should be then we wouldn’t be having this discussion at all.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112242#Comment_122112242

But we would because someone from other than the UK or EU could arrive at an Irish port of entry and request asylum.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112300#Comment_122112300

About the border controls at the north?
I don’t think so? An asylum seeker who claims asylum in the UK should not be able to travel(legitimately) from the mainland UK to NI without approval or similar. Bonkers of they are but then again stranger things have happened.

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112242#Comment_122112242

Small inconveniences? Amazing.

And this is not really a discussion because discussions usually have some basis in reality. A border check between the north and south is simply not possible.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112485#Comment_122112485

Well in the context of time it would be small inconincnce for a child in the republic having to go to a school in the republic and any other edge cases that can be thought up. Again if the governments in question actually followed and enforced their own rules it wouldn’t even be up for discussion.

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122112569#Comment_122112569

Children in the republic go to school in the republic in my example. Maybe you need to go back to school yourself if you cant read properly.

And if you don't want to have the discussion, you don't have to. There are loads of threads on boards about what the govt should or shouldn't do in relation to immigration. This thread is quite specifically about a border. Coming in and saying that "if the govt did their job we wouldnt need to discuss this" doesnt really add anything, now does it?

But in the interest of 'edge cases' what would you do for all the nurses, doctors, teachers, firemen that live north of the border but work south of it. Tell them to get a job in the north? Tell them to live in the south? Tell them to leave for work earlier in the morning so that they can get to their essential job on time? Suppose that's only a small inconvenience.

This goes back to what I said earlier, people who live nowhere near the border haven't got a clue about the logistics and the daily lives of people who do live there. Its absolutely unworkable.

But you're right, this shouldn't be up for discussion.