Shortage of Catholic priests.

political analyst

This article is from October 2023.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-67064894

Earlier that year, Bishop Donal McKeown warned that some Catholic funerals might take place without a Mass. As of the time of that article, the first Catholic lay funeral ministers in Northern Ireland were about to be appointed.

Does the Vatican really regard the lack of a Mass in some funerals as a price worth paying for the continuation of Catholic priests' celibacy?

Presumably, letting Catholic priests get married would increase the number of vocations, wouldn't it?

Pope Francis seems to be quite different from Benedict XVI. So why doesn't he abolish the celibacy rule?

**Threadbans**

Dick Phelan

SupaCat95

Frank Bullitt

I don’t think it’s a simple as letting them get married. Probably more to do with the large scale cover up of child abuse, crimes against humanity and people generally not believe a word of the Catholic religion.

Once they sort that though, everyone will want to be a priest.

One eyed Jack

Presumably, letting Catholic priests get married would increase the number of vocations, wouldn't it?

Married to each other even, I don’t think it would make a blind bit of difference. It hasn’t for the Anglican Church, which is also experiencing a similar decline in the UK:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/01/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-established-church

Mrs OBumble

You can have a perfectly good Catholic funeral without it including a mass.

ottolwinner

presumably letting them get married would cause financial dependency for spouses and families that the organisation couldn’t tot up a bill for.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058346958/shortage-of-catholic-priests

Could you perhaps reference the article that sent you off on the tangent about celebrity, your comments might make a bit more sense in such a context….

Strumms

There are dozens of Eastern European, African and South American lads in the Dublin diocese anyway… sensible thing is probably acknowledging that people of those countries see Ireland as somewhere they’d like to be… so just bring in as many as required..just looked there and on quick count about 4 dozen non irish names listed on the Dublin diocesan website….

shortage of pilots ? Import more ! Carpenters ? The same…

NSAman

since being gay carries equal rights, the church isn’t the hiding place it once was.

whisky_galore

Protestant congregations have had similar declines for decades, without the mass child abuse baggage.

Organised religion in Europe (bar Islam) has been on the wane generally. If it wasn't for older generations clinging desperately to the RCC and their adult kids pandering to them and the schools it would have fallen off a cliff here.

ax530

I think the issue with marriage is more financial/legal. Church provide homes for priests how does it work when separated and broken families involved.

The current set up few priests, nuns sharing a house wouldn't work with families.

Divorce splitting assets again tricky with church owning buildings ( churches, house, maybe even schools)

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020768#Comment_122020768

I'm not a Catholic myself, but my Dad died in 2020 during the very height of lockdown, and when I went to organise his funeral, there wasn't a priest available. So a deacon was provided - he couldn't say mass, but he officiated a Catholic funeral.

scottser

The last 4-5 weddings I've been to including my own, and at least the same amount of funerals have been Humanist ceremonies. The Catholic Church seems to be really struggling for relevancy these days.

eightieschewbaccy

I've had a lot of contact with the church over the decades and frankly have very little time for the hierarchy. There's plenty of good priests out there who are genuinely decent people. But the people who rise in the ranks to Bishop etc just often tend to not be great people.

Priests who weren't the problematic ones ended up being treated like crap by said hierarchy over the years. So honestly, I'd think anyone entering the clergy would have to be a little bit mental at this stage. It's just a pretty awful organization as a whole.

randd1

• Homosexuality is no longer seen as sinful, degenerate, or illegal, so no need to go to the priesthood to cover it up or repent for it.
• No-one will ever fully trust the Church again after the scale of abuse of women and children that has been revealed.
• Decades of jokes, thoughts, arguments, debates and programmes either attacking or mocking religion instead of religious only views being allowed breaking down centuries of indoctrination.

And the big one for me. No-one will ever listen to or place any faith in the Church again regarding morality and righteousness after the scale of abuse of women and children that has been revealed. And when religion loses all moral authority, or said morality is seen an hypocritical and corrupt as people see in the Church in light of it's own actions and words, all the Church offers are a few stories which people will either believe or not.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020752#Comment_122020752

Married to each other?! That's not what I meant!

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020772#Comment_122020772

My reference to Pope Francis wasn't about celebrity - it was about his role as the boss of the Church. Stop reading things in that aren't there.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021769#Comment_122021769

Homosexuality is no longer seen as sinful, degenerate, or illegal, so no need to go to the priesthood to cover it up or repent for it.

Why do people always trot this out? Is it some kind of virtue signalling? Back in the day, boys would be sent off to start training as priests when they were kids. That wasn't right at all but that's besides the point. I would think in the vast majority of cases, the kids weren't really making informed choices one way or another. Except that it was probably seen as a prestigious route to go so they probably didn't realise at 12 what they were getting into.

Why the rush to portray them as closet homosexuals who made some choice as an adult in order to "hide"?

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021658#Comment_122021658

A problem with property ownership in divorce only arises when a spouse owns property - so it wouldn't arise in the breakdown of a priest's marriage.

Cluedo Monopoly

In the height of the Roman Catholic empire in Ireland, sons were strongly encouraged to join the priesthood - "calling" or not. Especially the 'odd' sons who may not have other prospects. These days parents would be horrified if their son said he was joining the priesthood. You'd certainly ask Why and then do your best to dissuade them. It's just not a normal profession or a normal organisation. Still far from it.

Oscar_Madison

I was reading a very good researched and informed article a number of years ago - Apparently even the Pope in all his power and might can get challenged - there’s a cohort of senior clerics that don’t want progress and are ultra conservative - Francis has been battling them since his early days as pope - so getting through married priests isn’t as plain sailing as “make it so” unfortunately.
Even then, as others have said you’re going to actually then have to attract married men or indeed women if it went that far, to the “priesthood” - that’s going to involve years of dedicated study and participation in religious events to get you up to speed - this will all be done part time as you’ll still be working in your normal job- so even if the green light for married male or female priests came in tomorrow morning you’d need:

1. Volunteers
2. Committing to approx 5 years of part time study and completion of various activities to set you up for success in your priestly duties
3. An extremely large workload eventually leaving you very little time for family

I’m just not seeing it happening.

I know that there is a certificate or diploma course currently running for lay people wishing to support priests in some of their duties - this course is an intensive 2 year programme with a lot of study meetings and work experience- it covers things like visiting the sick leading prayer etc You then give a 5 year commitment post “graduation” to support your parish - it’s probably the way things will go medium term but even then, that initiative needs volunteers to sign up and you can imagine it’s not quite over subscribed

briany

Participation in almost all aspects of Catholic life has fallen pretty drastically in the last four decades, including the areas you can still be married and be involved with. You only have to look at mass attendance for that. It follows pretty naturally that the proportion of the faithful who would become priests shrinks down so much when the faithful themselves become less in number.

Overall, however, the Catholic church is doing just fine. The African congregation is absolutely booming.

yagan

On the issue of inheritance for married priests hasn't celibacy been the exception to the long term norm?

I think the Greek orthodox priests are paid like basic rank civil servants, but that's as far as I know about that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021658#Comment_122021658

Imagine a Father Ted reboot with a few kids running around the parochial house.

They wouldn't get the same jokes from Len Brennan's illegitimate child though.

Lewis_Benson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022120#Comment_122022120

How's the son?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022132#Comment_122022132

Grand yeah he's over there in the corner playing lego

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022136#Comment_122022136

he’d be long finished 3rd level college at this stage - actually that would be a cool reboot - Len’s son joins the priesthood - Doogle is now PP and takes on Len’s son as a trainee - laughter ensues for 3 series and a few Christmas specials - I mean it couldn’t be any worse than Mrs Browns Boys ……could it ? 😀

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022146#Comment_122022146

Doogle is now PP 

Like an AI priest? I like where you're going with this…

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022232#Comment_122022232

it will be Graham Lenihan’s big come back from being cancelled 🤪

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022445#Comment_122022445

A Father Ted/IT Crowd mash-up? If that doesn't get him back into public affection I don't know what will…

There'll be less churches soon, so it'll even itself out naturally. You'll have to go on a religious pilgrimage to find a church for sunday mass soon enough. Only the most committed god botherers will remain.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020768#Comment_122020768

But sure the mass just makes everyone feel miserable!

BaywatchHQ

Many priests would have been celibate anyway regardless if they joined the priesthood as many of them are non neurotypical. Also I don't believe allowing priests to marry would make such of a difference as young people aren't interested in the Catholic church. My parish currently has a temporary Spanish priest who noone understands.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023618#Comment_122023618

I think it would have definitely made a difference if it was brought in 40 years ago. Now not so much since so many people have left the catholic church. The pool of potential priests is far smaller now. But 40 years ago there would have been a lot more young men who might have considered it except for the celibacy clause.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024836#Comment_122024836

They should embrace new ideas in order to survive. We all know religious doctrine is made up BS anyway, so they can just make up some new rules to become more modern and progressive.

Just imagine if your local priest was gay or trans… and Sunday mass was like going to a local pride festival. They might get some fresh new blood into their cult, and could look to the future with more optimism. Instead of dwindling attendance figures and crumbling decaying churches.

gym_imposter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024857#Comment_122024857

Apparently the likes of the church of England hasn't seen any increase in attendance since becoming more liberal

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022098#Comment_122022098

Do those senior clerics have the power to remove a Pope from office? If they do, then that demolishes the idea of papal infallibility.

Just close/merge a few churches. In some parts of Dublin you'll find several churches within a small radius (I can count 6 within 2km radius of my house). There's hardly a demand for that many.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032801#Comment_122032801

Nope, and while that does mean the Pope is unimpeachable, Papal infallibility is an entirely different idea! 😳

Francis’ battle with the more hardline Conservative clerics among the flock is less of an actual battle, and more Francis giving them the signal that they should flock off, with the sign of peace reversed, in their general direction 😏

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032881#Comment_122032881

If it's impossible to remove him from office then why is he afraid of those clerics. If his word is law in the Vatican then what difference does what those clerics say make?

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032886#Comment_122032886

I think I get where you’re coming from now. Francis isn’t afraid of them, so much as they’re just a pain in the arse, and should they gain enough authority, then there could be a change in Canon Law which would bring about the possibility of ousting the Pope from office. However the existence of that law would then also apply to anyone among themselves who might one day hope to ascend to the throne, so to speak, and that’s why they’re wary of bringing it back:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2010/03/can-the-pope-be-fired.html

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032930#Comment_122032930

But the Pope has a veto and so any plan by those clerics to change Canon Law to bring about that possibility would come to nothing, wouldn't it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024857#Comment_122024857

Lol, I don't think an "openly" gay priest is going to help matters!

They have been modern and progressive for a long time.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024857#Comment_122024857

Just cannot imagine that ever happening in Ireland.

Besides, it's the message that's important, not the delivery.

And if people dont believe in the message, well the game is up.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032949#Comment_122032949

Now you see why Francis isn’t afraid, and the hardline Conservative clerics amount to nothing more than a pain in the arse for him.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032962#Comment_122032962

Then why won't he let priests get married?

purplepanda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020770#Comment_122020770

Wasn't that the reason celibacy in the clergy was encouraged, I recall reading it wasn't until after 1000AD onwards that it became common practice. Or is it connected with the Latin - Orthodox schism of 1054? As Orthodox priests can marry.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023147#Comment_122023147

Ah there's still plenty God botherers like myself left to keep the doors open, sorry you'll have to suffer our presence a while longer 😂

mikethecop

I have very little interest in the church but it seems that there has a shortage of priests as long as I an remember , and that a while.

it really is hard to understand the objections to married and female priests in this day and age, if they want to choose that life and people who want to choose that life are needed then whats the fecking problem popie ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I think the problem is disturst in religions generally. People are not turning away form the church in order to pursue a different faith, they just tend to be more skeptical and that's not something that's going to be changed by a loosening of attitudes.

XsApollo

we are a wealthy country, how many young fellas nowadays would pick a career as a priest?

Back in the day I’m sure people decided to become a priest because of pressure, or nothing better to do.

they will have to start finding priests from less wealthy countries, vulnerable people .

That’s their speciality preying on the vulnerable.

And a big no to removing the celibacy requirement, so people forget what that organisation did to children and is still doing mind you in other parts of the world.

I can imagine what kind of life being indoctrinated into the Catholic Church would mean for a kid. Abuse and no freedom.

Fu*cking animals.

hoodie6029

How they are still going after all their scandals and criminal behaviour for decades is beyond me.

Refusal to pay compensation to the victims even though they got to State to foot the bill for most of it, stringing g it out as long as possible so many of the victims are dead to reduce the bill. The vile legal behaviour of the Christian Brothers.
Now little by little selling all their prime property while claiming poverty.

If they started up today they be investigated as a Organised Criminal Gang and have CAB after them.

Their absolute refusal to acknowledge anyone’s right to longer be counted as Catholic too. If it was Facebook or anyone else at that, they’d be in the High Court explaining themselves fairly quickly.
The sooner that they are gone from Ireland, the better. Unfortunately they just move their scam to other countries.