Shortage of Catholic priests.

political analyst

This article is from October 2023.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-67064894

Earlier that year, Bishop Donal McKeown warned that some Catholic funerals might take place without a Mass. As of the time of that article, the first Catholic lay funeral ministers in Northern Ireland were about to be appointed.

Does the Vatican really regard the lack of a Mass in some funerals as a price worth paying for the continuation of Catholic priests' celibacy?

Presumably, letting Catholic priests get married would increase the number of vocations, wouldn't it?

Pope Francis seems to be quite different from Benedict XVI. So why doesn't he abolish the celibacy rule?

**Threadbans**

Dick Phelan

SupaCat95

Frank Bullitt

I don’t think it’s a simple as letting them get married. Probably more to do with the large scale cover up of child abuse, crimes against humanity and people generally not believe a word of the Catholic religion.

Once they sort that though, everyone will want to be a priest.

One eyed Jack

Presumably, letting Catholic priests get married would increase the number of vocations, wouldn't it?

Married to each other even, I don’t think it would make a blind bit of difference. It hasn’t for the Anglican Church, which is also experiencing a similar decline in the UK:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/01/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-established-church

Mrs OBumble

You can have a perfectly good Catholic funeral without it including a mass.

ottolwinner

presumably letting them get married would cause financial dependency for spouses and families that the organisation couldn’t tot up a bill for.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058346958/shortage-of-catholic-priests

Could you perhaps reference the article that sent you off on the tangent about celebrity, your comments might make a bit more sense in such a context….

Strumms

There are dozens of Eastern European, African and South American lads in the Dublin diocese anyway… sensible thing is probably acknowledging that people of those countries see Ireland as somewhere they’d like to be… so just bring in as many as required..just looked there and on quick count about 4 dozen non irish names listed on the Dublin diocesan website….

shortage of pilots ? Import more ! Carpenters ? The same…

NSAman

since being gay carries equal rights, the church isn’t the hiding place it once was.

whisky_galore

Protestant congregations have had similar declines for decades, without the mass child abuse baggage.

Organised religion in Europe (bar Islam) has been on the wane generally. If it wasn't for older generations clinging desperately to the RCC and their adult kids pandering to them and the schools it would have fallen off a cliff here.

ax530

I think the issue with marriage is more financial/legal. Church provide homes for priests how does it work when separated and broken families involved.

The current set up few priests, nuns sharing a house wouldn't work with families.

Divorce splitting assets again tricky with church owning buildings ( churches, house, maybe even schools)

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020768#Comment_122020768

I'm not a Catholic myself, but my Dad died in 2020 during the very height of lockdown, and when I went to organise his funeral, there wasn't a priest available. So a deacon was provided - he couldn't say mass, but he officiated a Catholic funeral.

scottser

The last 4-5 weddings I've been to including my own, and at least the same amount of funerals have been Humanist ceremonies. The Catholic Church seems to be really struggling for relevancy these days.

eightieschewbaccy

I've had a lot of contact with the church over the decades and frankly have very little time for the hierarchy. There's plenty of good priests out there who are genuinely decent people. But the people who rise in the ranks to Bishop etc just often tend to not be great people.

Priests who weren't the problematic ones ended up being treated like crap by said hierarchy over the years. So honestly, I'd think anyone entering the clergy would have to be a little bit mental at this stage. It's just a pretty awful organization as a whole.

randd1

• Homosexuality is no longer seen as sinful, degenerate, or illegal, so no need to go to the priesthood to cover it up or repent for it.
• No-one will ever fully trust the Church again after the scale of abuse of women and children that has been revealed.
• Decades of jokes, thoughts, arguments, debates and programmes either attacking or mocking religion instead of religious only views being allowed breaking down centuries of indoctrination.

And the big one for me. No-one will ever listen to or place any faith in the Church again regarding morality and righteousness after the scale of abuse of women and children that has been revealed. And when religion loses all moral authority, or said morality is seen an hypocritical and corrupt as people see in the Church in light of it's own actions and words, all the Church offers are a few stories which people will either believe or not.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020752#Comment_122020752

Married to each other?! That's not what I meant!

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020772#Comment_122020772

My reference to Pope Francis wasn't about celebrity - it was about his role as the boss of the Church. Stop reading things in that aren't there.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021769#Comment_122021769

Homosexuality is no longer seen as sinful, degenerate, or illegal, so no need to go to the priesthood to cover it up or repent for it.

Why do people always trot this out? Is it some kind of virtue signalling? Back in the day, boys would be sent off to start training as priests when they were kids. That wasn't right at all but that's besides the point. I would think in the vast majority of cases, the kids weren't really making informed choices one way or another. Except that it was probably seen as a prestigious route to go so they probably didn't realise at 12 what they were getting into.

Why the rush to portray them as closet homosexuals who made some choice as an adult in order to "hide"?

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021658#Comment_122021658

A problem with property ownership in divorce only arises when a spouse owns property - so it wouldn't arise in the breakdown of a priest's marriage.

Cluedo Monopoly

In the height of the Roman Catholic empire in Ireland, sons were strongly encouraged to join the priesthood - "calling" or not. Especially the 'odd' sons who may not have other prospects. These days parents would be horrified if their son said he was joining the priesthood. You'd certainly ask Why and then do your best to dissuade them. It's just not a normal profession or a normal organisation. Still far from it.

Oscar_Madison

I was reading a very good researched and informed article a number of years ago - Apparently even the Pope in all his power and might can get challenged - there’s a cohort of senior clerics that don’t want progress and are ultra conservative - Francis has been battling them since his early days as pope - so getting through married priests isn’t as plain sailing as “make it so” unfortunately.
Even then, as others have said you’re going to actually then have to attract married men or indeed women if it went that far, to the “priesthood” - that’s going to involve years of dedicated study and participation in religious events to get you up to speed - this will all be done part time as you’ll still be working in your normal job- so even if the green light for married male or female priests came in tomorrow morning you’d need:

1. Volunteers
2. Committing to approx 5 years of part time study and completion of various activities to set you up for success in your priestly duties
3. An extremely large workload eventually leaving you very little time for family

I’m just not seeing it happening.

I know that there is a certificate or diploma course currently running for lay people wishing to support priests in some of their duties - this course is an intensive 2 year programme with a lot of study meetings and work experience- it covers things like visiting the sick leading prayer etc You then give a 5 year commitment post “graduation” to support your parish - it’s probably the way things will go medium term but even then, that initiative needs volunteers to sign up and you can imagine it’s not quite over subscribed

briany

Participation in almost all aspects of Catholic life has fallen pretty drastically in the last four decades, including the areas you can still be married and be involved with. You only have to look at mass attendance for that. It follows pretty naturally that the proportion of the faithful who would become priests shrinks down so much when the faithful themselves become less in number.

Overall, however, the Catholic church is doing just fine. The African congregation is absolutely booming.

yagan

On the issue of inheritance for married priests hasn't celibacy been the exception to the long term norm?

I think the Greek orthodox priests are paid like basic rank civil servants, but that's as far as I know about that.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021658#Comment_122021658

Imagine a Father Ted reboot with a few kids running around the parochial house.

They wouldn't get the same jokes from Len Brennan's illegitimate child though.

Lewis_Benson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022120#Comment_122022120

How's the son?

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022132#Comment_122022132

Grand yeah he's over there in the corner playing lego

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022136#Comment_122022136

he’d be long finished 3rd level college at this stage - actually that would be a cool reboot - Len’s son joins the priesthood - Doogle is now PP and takes on Len’s son as a trainee - laughter ensues for 3 series and a few Christmas specials - I mean it couldn’t be any worse than Mrs Browns Boys ……could it ? 😀

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022146#Comment_122022146

Doogle is now PP 

Like an AI priest? I like where you're going with this…

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022232#Comment_122022232

it will be Graham Lenihan’s big come back from being cancelled 🤪

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022445#Comment_122022445

A Father Ted/IT Crowd mash-up? If that doesn't get him back into public affection I don't know what will…

Poon Tang

There'll be less churches soon, so it'll even itself out naturally. You'll have to go on a religious pilgrimage to find a church for sunday mass soon enough. Only the most committed god botherers will remain.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122020768#Comment_122020768

But sure the mass just makes everyone feel miserable!