The crusade against the motorist continues...

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027796#Comment_122027796

Breezy is right..

How much more clarity is required over what comes up on a Google search for "Fluorescent tabards" and why?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027816#Comment_122027816

"Now if we go for a walk they will all run and get the hi-viz, so it works"

Ya it works in the sense that your kids now go put it on.

It doesn't work in the sense that your kids are still gonna get a smack of that badly driven car.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027829#Comment_122027829

In fairness most people go through their whole life without ever getting "a smack of a badly driven car".

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027847#Comment_122027847

The car usually is badly driven when it hits you though!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027538#Comment_122027538

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027543#Comment_122027543

If hiviz is so good, why aren't they giving out hiviz stickers for all sides of all cars? Why it is just something that we expect pedestrians to do, while drivers swan around in black and navy cars? Why have the RSA got zero evidence to justify the benefits of the €5 million spend on hiviz materials (mostly spent with their Mayo neighbours, PortWest, by a mad coincidence).

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027851#Comment_122027851

It's a bit like dog bites man no story etc.

We have no statistics for all the people who walked home in the dark and got there safely.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027869#Comment_122027869

Speaking as someone who was hit by a badly driven car I had to stand up and be counted there..

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027857#Comment_122027857

Hi-viz are good. Are they the total answer? no

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027965#Comment_122027965

They're really only a think in Ireland and UK. Have a look around the best cycling cultures, and you don't see hiviz and helmets. You see people cycling in ordinary clothes as part of their ordinary daily routine.

They're really a sign of a victim blaming culture, telling kids to 'be safe be seen' while drivers tear around in black and navy cars.

They're not really all that good.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027894#Comment_122027894

No offence intended, obviously as you got hit by a car that's serious.

I hope you got on ok.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027982#Comment_122027982

I don't disagree, but make a small change to drivers and it's a "crusade" against them. The crusade they have done for years has to be forgotten

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027857#Comment_122027857

This has been explained to you before, but cars have these things called "lights" to help them be visible. And cars post-2011 even have Daytime Running Lights because even in broad daylight, cars are more visible when actively lit. BTW, the European regulations don't say anything about car colour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daytime_running_lamp#European_Union

By contrast, a pedestrian has nothing, and that could be a problem if they're walking on, for example, rural roads late at night.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028549#Comment_122028549

Cyclists have lights. Some pedestrians have lights.

I see a couple of cars on each winter commute with no back lights, because they don't know how their DRLs work. Surely hiviz panels would help visibility of these black and navy cars?

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028571#Comment_122028571

Wait, for just those cars? All the black and navy cars? All cars?

If someone is driving without lights during lighting up hours, they're already breaking the law.

But thank you for proving my point which is that all road users should ensure that they are visible.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028592#Comment_122028592

If someone is speeding and hits a pedestrian, no amount of visibility aids would have saved them, they could have floodlights shining down on them and it wouldn't help because they problem is excess speed on the drivers part.

Same story for drink driving, no amount of hi viz counteracts the alcohol in a drivers system causing poor reactions and judgement.

Very very few road deaths are due to poor pedestrian visibility. It is a red herring.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028592#Comment_122028592

Point of clarity about your third paragraph given that you make reference to the law in the second: I don't believe that the law says anything at all about pedestrians being visible. As for cyclists, it requires bikes to have a white and red light from dusk until dawn - nothing is mentioned about the rest of the time.

Flinty997

Statistically the vast majority of accidents between cars and pedestrians and cyclists are not caused by the pedestrian or cyclist not being visible.

But by the driver not looking and or not paying attention or poor driving.

So having your child lit up like dayglow Christmas trees is actually going to achieve very little. Regardless if you're going to blame the child in the accident for not making the driver drive better or see them.

It's a false narrative to avoid doing anything about bad driving and enforcement.

Flinty997

It's says a lot a about the mindset that in a thread about congestion, people want to make it about children causing cars to drive into them.

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028549#Comment_122028549

You seem to ever only get in your car to go anywhere, I've been hit by a car in the town down a lane, because they were going too fast and thought people should jump out of the way, I've been hit by a car 3 times on my bicycle while having a bright flashing rear light, my wife was hit by a car in a lane in town. My dog was nearly hit by a car that was driving on the footpath to park-but all these were 'my fault' until I had footage on the bike and submitted that, got video footage of the other incidents and made sure charges were brought against the drivers. These were all daytime incidents.

Fortunately only one of these incidents was serious enough to need follow through on compensation for damage to my bike/equipment.

I have a van and a car, I do about 12,000 km per year on them, cycle about 12k per year and I walk a lot.

The standard of driving is brutal, the amount of people that do not use indicators, that do not slow down in a pedestrian area, that do not slow down around vulnerable road users etc is atrocious, the sense of entitlement is unbelievable. Re lights on cars, on a dull day, or when it's raining, or dusk, the lack of common sense by many motorists is off the charts, Hi-viz would help, but these people are in control of a 1 ton+ metal cage that kills and maims people every day, why don't they not all have their lights on all the time? When it rains and/or visibility is reduced, turn on the lights- not just to see, but to be seen. Slow down, use the brake when there are vulnerable road users that you are passing. It's not rocket science.

One thing that all drivers should be forced to do is to be a pedestrian and a cyclist and be close passed, it may give a small bit of understanding, it seems you have no experience of either.

Seth Brundle

One thing that all drivers should be forced to do is to be a pedestrian and a cyclist and be close passed, it may give a small bit of understanding, it seems you have no experience of either.

Whilst this is a good idea, I can't see it happening. Apparently, Dublin Bus were asked to do something similar to the following but decided against it as it was too dangerous!

https://twitter.com/soneerbozkurt/status/1748911248920432672

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027816#Comment_122027816

We don't have the Gardai and the people wont pay the additional taxes to have Gardai.Take a quick example, bus lane enforcement.

We don't have people wanting to join the Gardaí, which is a much bigger problem. And considering the regular abuse they get from the public and from their commissioner I can't say I blame them.

So if you put a Garda on every bus lane in Dublin that would probably be majority of the force, plus people would flash etc and they would end up sitting catching very few people and a waste of time

It wouldn't be a massive waste of time as they would enforce the law which, as a taxpayer, I feel, is always worth doing. The very fact that they would catch very few people would mean the enforcement works. I accept it wouldn't be a very profitable exercise

Education is key to everything. Driving school in lieu of penalty points would literally be a solution there

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027816#Comment_122027816

Why would you put a Garda,at a bus lane? It's 2024, technology exists to do this job. If the cameras on the m50 can capture number plates to charge a toll, those cameras could be placed along bus lanes to fine drivers who use them illegally.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029553#Comment_122029553

Exactly

Poon Tang

One thing I've noticed with these cycle lanes that have all the red barriers preventing vehicles from entering them, it actually means that the vehicles now throw dirt and debris into the cycle lane which is not getting cleaned up. Where as before, when you didn't have these barriers, the debris was mostly kicked in at the curb by the movement of vehicles occasionally going into the cycle lanes. And they're not really wide enough for street sweepers, even if there was enough of them to adequately keep it free from debris.

This is just counter productive and bad planning. You can see many cyclists don't want to use lanes filled with crap. And in some cases, you have ridiculously wide footpaths that could easily accommodate both pedestrians and cyclists comfortably, but the planners choose to further restrict an already narrow road with huge cycle lanes that make no sense. Again, terrible planning. Poorly utilised space is pretty criminal from high level infrastructural perspective. I would say it's almost worse than poorly spent money.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029955#Comment_122029955

And in some cases, you have ridiculously wide footpaths that could easily accommodate both pedestrians and cyclists comfortably,

When commuting I'll average almost 30km/h and can hit speeds of 40-50km/h. I cannot do that comfortably on a shared footpath.

but the planners choose to further restrict an already narrow road with huge cycle lanes that make no sense. Again, terrible planning. Poorly utilised space is pretty criminal from high level infrastructural perspective. I would say it's almost worse than poorly spent money.

Where are these huge cycle lanes?

Anyhow, this has nothing to do with bus gates on Bachelor's Walk & Aston Quay!!!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029955#Comment_122029955

You realise they do have narrow street sweepers that fit...

Bit late to the party realising we've made cyclists cycle in the gutter for decades.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030401#Comment_122030401

Autumn is especially great for cycle lanes with bollards…

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030441#Comment_122030441

Who hasn't had a moment on wet leafs or manholes or painted lines in inclement weather. In a cycle lane or outside of it.

The lanes will need to be maintained.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028806#Comment_122028806

I'm sure motorists could have said the same thing about Daytime Running Lamps (i.e. why should I have to have DRLs, sure if another driver hits me it's their fault) but that argument either wasn't made or didn't cut the mustard.

DRL laws exist because it's been concluded that more visibility = more safety. That it is a road users duty to be seen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029494#Comment_122029494

Yes, nowadays, I mostly get around by car, but I was a daily pedestrian and public transport user in Dublin for nearly a decade before the pandemic. My 3 biggest problems were:

1. Public transport was sparse and overcrowded.
2. Cyclists didn't seem to know what a FOOTpath was for or what a red light means.
3. Accommodation was almost non-existent so you were lucky if you could get a decent sized room to live in miles from anywhere.

A jihad against motorists wouldn't have solved any of those problems. And I think I speak for the majority of Ireland's 3.3 million drivers when I say that we don't drive in the reckless/idiotic manner you describe, and we condemn unreservedly anyone who drives drunk/high, takes the piss with speed etc.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031202#Comment_122031202

In the contrary, less cars and bikes specific infrastructure would reduce the need/want for cyclists to break car centric rules...

Just because you say things, doesn't make them facts.