Building near neighbours boundary

schkanico01

Hi

Our house is detached and on one side our house wall is the boundary. Our neighbours have a side entrance to their garden with their house one side and ours on the other. Is there rules on how close a shed or extension can be built to my wall? Wondering about fire safety and maintenance.

Mellor

The neighbour can also build right on the boundary.

If your house is already right on the boundary, this means they can essentially abuts your house. There is not fires risk there, no different to semi detached or terraced houses in contact.

schkanico01

Surely they cannot do this since the wall is mine? It is not a party wall. Would they be allowed essentially make my house a semi detached when they were bought as detached?

KaneToad

I would highly doubt that, if you have a detached property, your neighbour can build onto your wall and use it as one of their walls.

schkanico01

I would have thought you need permission to use someone's property and alter it in such a way.

Kaisr Sose

Have they actually done this/ indicated an intention to do so?

blackbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989538#Comment_121989538

I don't think they can use your wall as part of their structure, but they can build right up to their own boundary i.e. they can build a wall right against your wall.

schkanico01

Yes they have mentioned that they are looking into the possibility. I am trying to find the regulations on whether they are required to leave space for us to access the wall for maintenance etc. The space between the houses is about the size of a car

C3PO

Am I understanding this correctly - your house is built right up to the boundary but you don’t want your neighbour to be able to do the same? Why would they have to leave space on their property in order for you to maintain your walls? You would be much better agreeing an approach with them that ensures that no maintenance is required!

Kaisr Sose

Deleted

schkanico01

I dont expect to build to my boundary (nor did I say so) as my other neighbours wall is the boundary. The houses were built with large pathways between them but no party wall. I won't be giving anyone permission to build onto my property wall nor can they. Our deeds state we are required to be given access. Our electricity metre, gas metre etc. are on this wall. My house is detached, neighbours can't change that without my permission.

I wanted to know what the regulations are on distance required between boundary walls that are not party walls. I have outright ownership of the wall.

I have made an effort to get advice on this so will hopefully get an answer soon.

mickdw

Something doesn't add up.

You say your house wall is on the boundary but the same wall has meter box etc located on it. That would mean that your meter opens onto neighbours property which I wouldn't see as possible or correct.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002733#Comment_122002733

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002733#Comment_122002733

I think he actually says that the house wall is the boundary.

In any event OP, when you get down off your 16 hand high white steed

peruse this

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/section/3/

which was brought in to deal with a dogmatic NO

schkanico01

It does. We live in a housing estate. My neighbours is the same on the other side. There is no gate leading down the side of the house. It issupposed to be used for parking.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989538#Comment_121989538

Which part of my post do you think they cannot do? They are impacting your sole ownership in your wall (in that scenario).
You was bought as a house on a boundary, that is much weaker a house in the centre of a site in terms of future development.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989690#Comment_121989690

In what way your property being altered?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989561#Comment_121989561

Nobody said that they could. They would be building entirely on their own property.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002709#Comment_122002709

You're house is already built right on the boundary (on that side). You can't prevent others from doing the same.

Nobody said anything about building on to your wall. We said that can abutt your wall (if it is on the boundary). That means building against it, while still on their property. This would in a way make your house semi-detached (if the boundary is where you say it is) they do not need your permission for that. Why would they, it's not your property.

If your "metre" is on that wall. It is overhanging their property. That's illegal. Your roof is possibly overhanging, also illegal.

The distance that is require between boundary walls that are not party walls is 0cm - a hard zero. THe boundary is an imaginary line that exits between the properties. It has no thickness. Your wall has left 0cm clearance to the boundary (according to your posts). That is allowed. But it's allowed for all, not just you. Meaning the neighbour can build their wall, on their side 0cm from the boundary.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002791#Comment_122002791

You are not allowed to park there. It's over the boundary, and therefore not your property. You you would be trespassing.

As others have said, what you are saying doesn't add up. Either you are not desctibign it well, or the boundary isn't where you say it is. But if that is the boundary, then its their property not yours. You can't use it for parking, access, etc etc.

JVince

Plenty of examples around Dublin, esp Rathfarnham, dundrum and terenure where semi detached houses get joined up with the next semi block to form a terrace.

chooseusername

@schkanico01, Is this how it looks?

ch.jpg

mickdw

That's how I believe it is from the description but meter box opening into neighbour sounds very odd.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028760#Comment_122028760

Plenty of examples every where. Especially when you consider a commercial buildings that occupy the full width of a lot.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032087#Comment_122032087

That's my understanding from the description, but OP may be mistake about the wall being a boundary wall.

The meter box access along that side is clearly poorly thought out. But it happens all the time in those configuration. It's pretty planning to build a detached house on the boundary and not foresee these issues.

Peregrinus

While I can see that the meter box arrangement as described might give rise to practical problems or be found unsatisfactory or restrictive, there's no reason in principle why each block shouldn't (a) have the benefit of a convenant affecting the block on one side, giving them the right to have their meter box, etc, opening onto that block and the right to enter on that block to do what you need to do with a meter box, and (b) be subject to the burden of a similar covenant in favour of the block on the other side.

If that is the arrangement — if the OP's rights are documented in this way — then that restricts what the neighbour can do on his block. He can't build on it or otherwise develop it in a way that would prevent the OP exercising his rights under the covenant.

schkanico01

Yes that's exactly how it looks

schkanico01

I am describing it perfectly well. Each house has their allocated parking which aligns with their own house and wall, so my cars park on one side and neighbours on the other. This is the same for all houses in the estate. At the back of the houses is the entrance to the rear garden.

Each owner has right of access to their house wall in their deeds. There is no trespassing, it is called an easement.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033374#Comment_122033374

Well, if you've got an easement over his land which entitles you to have your meter box where it is, and to access it, he can't develop his land in a way that obstructs your easement.

Is he proposing to build up to the boundary in a way that your meter box would end up being walled in?

On edit: You're entirely reliant on your easement here. But for that, as Mellor points out, they could put up a structure that abuts against your wall; they do not need to leave any space at all between their structure and yours.

So the answer to your question "how close can they build?" is another question; what does your easement say? If the easement says they need to leave an access passage of (say) at least 900mm, then that's how close they can build. If, as is more likely, the easement isn't specific, then they need to leave as much space as is practically necessary for you to access the meter box — enough space for you to walk up to it, stand next to it, open it, look in, and reach in.

Most likely your easement allows them to leave a passage only as far is required to access the meter box; past the meter box, they can builds something right up to the boundary and, therefore, right up to your wall.

schkanico01

Yeah they have started making plans to build up to the wall but I wouldn't have the space to go through/ access. I got some legal advice who confirmed there's an easement so we will take next steps to stop it now. Thanks for advice !

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033374#Comment_122033374

You should have mentioned before now that there is an easement registered.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033401#Comment_122033401

It is mentioned in post #11.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033394#Comment_122033394

Any chance of a photo or drawing showing the meter box location and easement?

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033374#Comment_122033374

Something like this so'

ch.jpg

If so, then they can't build.

A recipe for disputes!

Peregrinus

That looks like a slightly different arrangement. The red line there, I think, indicates the property boundary, which means that the house isn't built up to the property boundary on either side of the lot. But the strip of land inside the property boundary that is coloured yellow is subject to a right of way in favour of the neighbouring property, so that the occupant of that property can use it to access his garage.

So, in that case, the owner of no 16 can't build all the way up to the side wall of no. 17 because he doesn't own the strip of land that runs along the side wall of no. 17 — he only owns up to the red line between no. 16 and no. 17. But the owner of no. 17 also can't build on that strip of land, even though he owns it, because it's subject to a right of way in favour of no. 16.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033514#Comment_122033514

I would read it as both houses, say nos.16 and 17 have right of way over the whole strip of land betyween the houses.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033532#Comment_122033532

You don't need a right of way over land that you already own. So no. 17 doesn't need a right of way over land inside the boundary of no. 17, and no. 16 doesn't need a right of way over land inside the boundary of no 16.

Plus, why would no. 17 need a right of way to a garage that stands entirely on the land of no. 16? No. 17 has his own garage on the other side. So I would see no reason for no. 17 to have a right of way over the yellow bit of no. 16.

Oscar_Madison

I imagine these houses were built with a view that no extensions to the side were possible or envisaged - someone’s now testing that - @OP- has anyone else in the estate (assuming it’s an estate) tried to do similar?

I would imagine that easement covers more than just access to your gas and electric meter? Do you have a side entrance?

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033550#Comment_122033550

So is no 16 allowed to park their car between the houses or drive their car into their garage

ch.jpg

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033575#Comment_122033575

You'd need to look at the title deeds to say.

By default, a right of way does not include a general right to park. But, obviously, you can draw up a right of way in terms that expressly includes a right to park.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033575#Comment_122033575

Walking or driving over the strip would be fine but parking wouldn't be as it could be considered an obstruction. Then again it's down to the actual wording on the deeds.

mickdw

OK well if there is a specific easement regarding the meter boxes, that changes things. All we knew up to now was that 'I have a right to access'

What is the wording? Does it only relate to accessing the boxes.

If so, I'd imagine the neighbour could build from rear up to the of the boxes allowing you access from front only.

Possibly easement allows you access to that entire end of the house for access to meter and for maintenance and improvement. If so, they will be needing to keep a 1m or so away minimum.

Ted222

Reinforces my long held belief that a detached house isn’t really detached if you can’t walk around it completely.

Where the side house wall is the effective boundary, you’re at the mercy of the next door neighbour.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033824#Comment_122033824

The pic posted suggested that the side wall isnt the boundary - that the OP owns a narrow strip of land adjoining the wall.

Oscar_Madison

some guidance on easements here - @OP would be great to hear what the title deeds state in relation to this easement - it could well be that your neighbours have no right to build on it and must keep it as is for your legal benefit

https://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/easement-overview/#:~:text=An%20easement%20is%20a%20property,to%20one%20property%2C%20over%20another.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033879#Comment_122033879

That pic is not the op’s exact situation, just an example of a shared access and the issues that can arise.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033824#Comment_122033824

I’ve driven around some new estates recently - leaving aside how clumped together the houses are, I’ve seen strange looking set ups that will almost certainly lead to neighbour disputes in years to come

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033172#Comment_122033172

It's of course possible to register a series of easements on every lot. The owners obviously you would benefit from that protection. But It’s a ridiculous and lazy way to plan and layout a site imo. It is much more practical to place the boundary in a more practical place to begin with.

Also bear in mind, that there are regulations about where meter boxes can be placed, access to, etc. Such an easement would need to be transferable to the ESB. Making the area practical useless to the owner anyway.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033374#Comment_122033374

You may have thought you were describing it well, but you were not. An easement was not stated until post 23, (you mentioned a right of access, access to a rear garden is commonly provided without an easement). The meter boxes being on the side does not mean anytihng in itself.

The original question was how close can you build to a boundary/detached house. The answer to that question was correct, you can build abutting it. If a building is build right up to the boundary, your neighbour does not need your permission to turn it it into a semi-detached building, as was claimed.

The legal mechanism that impacts that is an easement. The extent of that impact depends on the exact terms. It could be a 1000mm access strip to your rear garden, it's unlikely to be much more. But it could be as little as a 1m x 1m square at the corner to access the meter box.

In the case of the latter, they would just set the extension 1m back from the building line, and build right up to the boundary. No rights infringed.

schkanico01

I wanted some general input/ advice before I confirmed the boundary and access details. I didnt want to give information before i knew for sure it was an easement and have done my best to describe the situation.

I have been told that abutting the side of a house is frowned upon and unlikely to be granted planning. Have had lots of conversations with the neighbours and hoping to resolve it so they build on the back of the house.

There have been some similar extensions in houses nearby but they were built when the pathway is split halfway with rear access for both houses, on either side of a wall or fence. In this instance we only have rear access on one side (where we park our cars).

I've added a picture that shows a similar situation. This is not my house but could give an idea. The space between is designated car parking.

Thanks all for the input. Looks positive now I've got some professional advice.

chooseusername

Hope it goes ok for you and your neighbours from now on.

Calahonda52

re this

 I wanted some general input/ advice before I confirmed the boundary and access details. I did'nt want to give information before i knew for sure it was an easement and have done my best to describe the situation. 

..

It should perhaps read: [ I did my best to get an answer to a question about which I was being vague, evasive and unclear.] for reasons that are not clear to me.

as above

Hope it goes ok for you and your neighbours from now on.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079728#Comment_122079728

If that side driveway, was present between every house. I would expect it to belong entirely to one house or the other. (Makes sense that it's the house on he right as the driveway is raised to the level of that house not the other.)

But, if I was drawing the boundaries for the above. It would not be hard up to the other house. As that means the eaves is overhanding. At the very least, it should be set back 300mm or so. (plus the easement to access, which should only be about 2m long