What ever happened to On Street Charging ?

mfceiling

My nearest "hub" is SuperValu at kimmage. Always busy. Always. Mainly by taxis!! 3 chargers in a shopping centre cannot be realistically called a hub in fairness.

Dundee have given ev charging proper thought. Unfortunately the same can't be said for Dublin.

Plus the population of Dublin is 10 times that of Dundee but I bet we don't have 10 times as many chargers!!

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973125#Comment_121973125

This is the point I've been making for years!

I feel like an eejit for ever having been worked up about the utterances of Eamon Ryan.

Generally the real world and everyday people have a greater say in what happens than extremists like Eamon Ryan.

kowloonkev

EVs will be like the CD of the motor industry. They will come and go relatively quickly when something better comes along. Huge investment in infrastructure is probably going to be wasted.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973302#Comment_121973302

Dublin hasn't implemented its hub strategy yet. We've the couple of mini hubs that eCars rolled out but no deliberate planned deployment. It works in other cities why do you not think it will work when done here?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973223#Comment_121973223

Fair enough. But doesn't negate my point about it being blocked.

It's a growing problem with Hubs. I was at one in petrol station the other day and an ice car went out of their way to park in the charger bay. I assume in an empty car park they were doing that thing of parking beside the only car they could see. They moved off after a few minutes, maybe they realised.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973331#Comment_121973331

So that's why all car manufacturers are moving away from combustion engines to electric drivetrains?

I hear this rubbish on twitter every day. Ev's are the betamax of years gone past.

Still to hear what this magic "something better comes along". And no it's not hydrogen.

10-10-20

Did I just see that ubitricity abandoned their charging lamposts in Sandyford and Malahide as they weren't seemingly moved over to the rebranded company, Shell Recharge? Nothing in the media about it and some of the chargers appear to be on free-vend.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973350#Comment_121973350

Any takers for the atomic bus

https://youtu.be/hj8agXYwC2o?si=H8rRePGOrRrQIzD5

Fr Tod Umptious

My taking from all of this is that EV hype has been going on for longer than I thought.

To be clear I'm an EV sceptic, as in I don't believe they are the answer as a way of fueling transport.

This is 14 years old, and it never came near being a reality.

And it's the same with so many things to do with EVs.

Ready any thread here and you'll see things like "well once the battery tech catches up", or "once the charging network catches up".

But it never catches up to the extent that EV can become viable alternatives for much of the population.

They continue to be too expensive, the product range too small and the charging options too limited for greater adoption.

liamog

Ah yes, range of cars, options available and charging network haven't changed since 2010 when 15 I-MIEV's and 2 Leaf's were sold compared to the 79 different models sold so far this year, and we have a substantially better (though not good enough) charging network.

Plenty of cars with decent range now available at normal price points for family cars, still lots of gaps in the small car market, but there are a lot of them launching in the next 18 months.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973341#Comment_121973341

The answer is in your first line.

Dublin hasn't implemented it's hub strategy yet.

We are light years away from where we need to be if we are to encourage the uptake in EV's.

It may work "when" it's implemented but I still think high powered chargers are more for use on motorways where there is a better chance the battery is warm and will take a fast rate of charge.

If I need to charge tonight at SuperValu in kimmage I will be driving 6 or 7 minutes to start a "fast" charge. The battery in the car will be stone cold and I'll be lucky to see between 50 and 60 kWh from a 150 charger.

This will be the problem with the hubs. Full of fast chargers and almost every car pulling up with a cold battery. The government really need to look at slower chargers being a viable option and not being pushed aside because "cost".

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973556#Comment_121973556

Plenty of cars with decent range now available at normal price points for family cars, still lots of gaps in the small car market, but there are a lot of them launching in the next 18 months.

A EV 7 seater is €80k, a diesel one is half that, and that's before you even get into the discussion about range.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973691#Comment_121973691

7 seaters are quite niche. Very hard to find a petrol 7 seater and manual. Does that mean petrol and manuals will never catch on. because that the leap you are making.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973474#Comment_121973474

The Tech "as is", obviously works for some people who have two EVs or are on their 2nd or third EV.

You obviously have the numbers in Norway to see how it can develop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway#:~:text=As%20of%2031%20December%202021,and%20176%2C691%20plug%2Din%20hybrids.

Flinty997

I don't think EVs will be the answer for everyone or everything.

But they certainly work for a lot of people.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973757#Comment_121973757

Yeah, in 2023 MPVs (M1 and M2) totalled just over 700 units sold. If you include large SUV (E3 - which is in the luxury bracket and wouldn't be considered an average family car) it would be another 2.5k. A tiny fraction of the total sales for the year.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973691#Comment_121973691

Maybe pick one of the many other cars in the list of 79. It's a bit ridiculous to claim the available options haven't changed since 2010 when there were 3 EVs available versus the 79 different options now. What makes you think the auto industry is going to stop launching new models this year?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973691#Comment_121973691

the options for 7 seater are awfully limited, but there are some tens of thousands less than 80k. I was considering the opel e-life 50kWh for about 50k. It just didn’t seem worth it in fairness compared to the Zafira for example. There is not any real focus on vehicles above 5 seats and it’s a shame.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973596#Comment_121973596

So, your claiming hubs won't work as a strategy in Dublin, because we haven't implemented a hub strategy yet. Ignoring the study which evaluated the experience in Dundee, Oslo and Birmingham finding that it was a viable option, and more workable than rolling out mass on street AC.

I don't think Dublin is particularly unique in the world, if it works in other places it should work here.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973810#Comment_121973810

It's a bit ridiculous to claim the available options haven't changed since 2010

I never claimed that, I just said options are limited.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973691#Comment_121973691

Opel Zafira life - from €60k

Opel Zafira e-Life - From €62.5k

More expensive sure but not by a whole lot

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973121#Comment_121973121

You won't be able to buy a new ICE car in 2035 but you should be able to buy overpriced second hand ones for a few years after

Charging infrastructure availability has ramped up massively in the last 2 years and if it keeps going it will soon become more convenient to charge an EV than to fill an ICE. The public charging costs issue should dissipate soon also

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973793#Comment_121973793

I agree with this sentence.

Why then are we being rail roaded into EVs ARE/WILL be the answer for everyone or everything.

zg3409

One of the issues with on street AC is that each post needs to have its own esb meter and associated monthly fee. According to easygo they are not allowed to run a cable from.one charger post to the next post as it's exclusively up to ESB networks to run "public space" wiring. This could be improved with changes to the rules.

ESB eCars have said they have no plans to roll out any more public AC chargers points as they make a loss.

But the real issue is cost and who will pay. If the "fuelling" cost is higher than petrol or diesel then there is little to no upside for drivers to switch to EV.

Hubs or fuelling while doing the weekly food shopping I believe could be viable but the amount of power needed and the locations of supermarkets may not be aligned and the cost to the end user if they fill up at their local supermarket chain may not make financial sense.

Note there are/was lamp post charging trials in Dublin. They are listed on plugshare app like in sandyford and malahide. Main issue is whole lamp post needs to be replaced and new/heavier wiring ran to the pole. There needs to be one pole per parking spot or two shared which may not be the case.

There has been a lot of passing the parcel and delays in rollout from councils, seai, zevi (new seai quango). Mostly it has been talking and reports. Finally they are talking about supporting motorway hubs, but nothing on the ground for cities.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121974278#Comment_121974278

and if it keeps going it will soon become more convenient to charge an EV than to fill an ICE

But it won't.

This sort of talk is no different to what Ryan was saying 14 years ago.

I'm what world will charging be more convenient than stopping into any one of a multitude of service stations and taking at most 5 minutes to fill up and pay ?

kowloonkev

Let's be honest, the reason these on the street chargers haven't been successfully implemented is because it's just not convenient for the tree huggers and they'd much rather everyone have their own stations at home from where they can gawk in despair at the petrol heads.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121974323#Comment_121974323

Railroaded? How?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973815#Comment_121973815

I just downsized from a 7 seater, I wanted petrol and manual and there were just no options that seemed worth it. Just like long trips being about 2% of our driving. Using the 7 seats had declined to a handful times a year. Really wasn't needed anymore when we rationalized it.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121974323#Comment_121974323

Your not being railroaded into EV's. Starting from 2035 (11 years) you won't be able to buy vehicle's that have tailpipe emissions. Any technology that can achieve that is open to you, if you really can't handle the switch it's likely to be 2050 before you have any difficulty finding a non zero tailpipe emission vehicle. 26 years is a long time for somebody to address the market requirement.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973183#Comment_121973183

that's actually a very fair comment, something i hadn't noticed before.