The 2024 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

legendary.xix

Division 1 in hurling lacked jeopardy and the GAA have acted with the five divisions of 7 from next year onwards. It was an understandable decision to try and avoid dead rubbers but the lack of jeopardy is detracting from the opening rounds. A basic change is top two only going through to the quarter-finals. I'm not overly enthused by neutral venue games. Provincial finalists could be rewarded with an extra home game. As mentioned previously, in a system where the top 2 qualify, ideally the Round 1 winners would meet in Round 2. This would require some flexibility in the scheduling.

Poor Clare are looking at elimination after Round 2 for the second consecutive year. Clare are the only county who can be knocked out after Round 2. All other counties will have at least a preliminary quarter-final to play for in Round 3.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184422#Comment_122184422

Westmeath and Louth over the past 10/15 year's are no better then Meath/Kildare and won't be beating Dublin in Leinster. We're all shite.

RoyalCelt

I don't think I've a short memory considering I remember Dublin winning 19/20 Leinster's and I remember at least 10 Leinster's before that when Dublin didn't need to be saved by the GAA and the competition thrived.

Dublin will surely win the next 10 to make it 29/30.

Dublin have won 9 of the last 13 all Irelands. Not a healthy number either. It's clear as Day what the problem is here. The biggest county with all the advantages is dominating. In Leinster nobody has a hope and if Dublin eventually lose a Leinster they'll knuckle down and walk the next 10.

Nobody cares anymore and attendances have plummeted. I have to laugh though because I can guarantee you at meetings 20 years ago the GAA were using Dublins huge Leinster attendances to justify giving them massive funding and every advantage. They thought it would continue the gravy train.

Absolutely delighted football is dying and long may it continue.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185193#Comment_122185193

That is a a DCB club issue for scheduling them on the same day though isn't it? It is not a GAA HQ issue.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185304#Comment_122185304

Any team that is half decent has a safety net now unless they make a complete sh!te of it.

And sure Kerry ALWAYS had a safety net being in a hurling province, and having to peak for two games a year in the "good auld days".

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185672#Comment_122185672

Of course it's a GAA HQ issue. There's too many intercounty games these days. That isn't decided by the Dublin CCC.

There aren't other dates that clubs could play on.

But active members of the GAA are either not paying attention or aren't real GAA fans.... 🙄

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185164#Comment_122185164

Rubbish on the innovation point. You are basically calling all other counties beyond Dublin thick. Are they not university educated? Do they no have analytical skills. Laptops game analysis.

Derry were at it at least four years ago -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHwFKcLQl1M&t=137s

As for the Kildare lad that would not choose football. I could use the same argument for any Dublin player that plays soccer in Finglas - or a fella from D4 where Dublin have no senior club choses rugby.

Kildare killed their own football team, successful underage teams were not capitalised on. And the lack of tactical nous was shocking. I remember Kildare v Galway div 2 final a couple of years ago. Both sat back afraid to break forwards it was dire. Since then Galway have improved moved on leaps and bounds and Kildare have gone even worse.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185720#Comment_122185720

Ah now the DCB knew the Dublin match was on how long ago? Could easily have scheduled it so you could have time to do your thing and time to watch the Dublin game. The throw in was 5pm after all.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185750#Comment_122185750

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

Is being an active member of the GAA just to be brushed aside as "do your thing and time to watch the Dublin game"? Incredible

irishgeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185735#Comment_122185735

Your twisting my words to suit your blue tinted Dublin view of the GAA world. Laptops and analytics software and GPS trackers all cost money.

Which county is rolling in sponsorship and GAA funding.

Thats why it takes time for the other counties to catch up.

As for Kildare you skipping over the points. Perhaps the young teams were not developed because they didn't have an interest in being on a team hammered by Dublin every season.

legendary.xix

The football Super 8s was the influence behind hurling taking on a group stage. Possibly the competitive hurling groups should now be an influence on football to take on two groups of six at Tier 1 level. Group winners into semi-finals. 2nd and 3rd into quarter-finals. Provincial winners only qualifying through the provincial championships.

Back on the field of play, Donegal were very impressive yesterday. Their direct attacking football was a joy to watch. Direct running and soloing towards goal. 21 points was an impressive total to amass.

dxhound2005

95% of the delegates at Congress 2022 voted for this system to start in 2023. Any alternative system would have to be decided by a future Congress. It doesn't need 95% but it would have to be a very good alternative to get enough support.

All attempts at fairness are doomed by geography and history, until a home and away league decides who are the Manchester City of Gaelic Football. This latest one will be a bigger success than what went before if the Tailteann Cup prospers.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187077#Comment_122187077

The current group stage format was supposed to be a starting point. It was acknowledged that it wasn't perfect and changes would be needed. Big crowds for the preliminary quarter-finals might sway things differently.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187154#Comment_122187154

Acknowledged by who? I don't see any mention of it being a starting point in the Motion which was presented for voting.

theoneeyedman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187077#Comment_122187077

The provinces have to be decoupled from the seeding if there is any modicum of fairness in the group stages.

Kerry and Dublin having byes into Seed 1 by virtue of 'winning' non competitive provinces is inherently unfair, when Ulster and the Connacht 3 have the eyes pulled out of each other at that stage.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187492#Comment_122187492

One solution is to include the provincial in the seeding as well as the league, so that if you beat another decent team you can rise up. This way Donegal could have risen from their initial seeding having beaten Derry, but Kerry would not have gained anything from their provincial campaign. Laoisman11 could sort out the calculations for this.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122187774#Comment_122187774

Would Derry then have dropped to Donegal's league ranking of 6?

The league linked to the championship while well intentioned has a few problems too. With All-Ireland club finals not complete in December as intended but January, intercounty players playing for their clubs in January need a break. The colleges need players as well in fairness. Decoupling the league from championship would give leeway. The league is popular with players so all those available will want to be successful in it.

Ideally provincial championships could stand on their own two feet. Retain their current place in the calendar and have the advantage that they provide more game time. Using league ranking as seeding would benefit the provincial championships for balanced draws.

Ideally then an All-Ireland series could have promotion and relegation between three tiers.

Back on the field of play, Derry v Armagh should be an interesting one this weekend coming. Armagh well positioned to challenge Galway for a group win again but Derry need a response after two disappointing defeats. Derry v Armagh could have a big influence on who takes second for the home preliminary quarter-final.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184673#Comment_122184673

The league is the best competition football has.

I know where you are coming from and I know we hear the above said a lot but in the reality is that for Division 1 teams, the best teams in the country, the league doesn't really matter.

I was at Kerry v Mayo this year and even though it was a full house and a great Saturday night out, as a Mayo fan I wasn't a bit pushed that they lost by a point.

Equally a few weeks early another Saturday night another big crowd I was not that pushed when Mayo beat Dublin by a point.

Because I knew that all three of Mayo, Kerry and Dublin were content enough just to stay in Division 1 why would I get too excited or depressed at the results.

I know there are occasions where teams target winning the league, Derry this year and Kerry in 2022, but for the most part the league and the final placings are only relevant from mid table Division 2 down, where the spectre of the Tailteanna Cup looms large.

Not that long ago there was a infamous Proposal B which only missed out in being adopted.

That would have meant that after the league the top 4 teams in Division 1 would be in a Quarter final and their opponents would be one of 5th in Div 1, 1st in Div 2 and two winners from playoffs between 2nd and 3rd in Div 2 and 1st in Div 3 and Div 4

The remaining 3rd and 4th Div teams go to the TC and 6th, 7th, 8th in Div 1, and 4th to 7th in Div 2 are done for the year.

Now if you want the league to be meaningful and you want jeopardy, that's jeopardy.

But it's also stupid, dumping three good Div 1 teams for the sake of Div 3 and 4 winners.

blowitupref

Donegal are the only unbeaten team in league and championship this year. P12 W11 D1 F225 A164

Donegal last year after 12 league and championship games. W3 D1 L8 F154 A206

legendary.xix

The league is a good balanced competition but the main target is to retain Division 1 status. Division 1 in hurling was lacking that jeopardy but the GAA seem to have a handle on that one.

Hurling has a continuous flow of league to group stage and that seems to be working out ok. If football was to take influence from, the football provincial championships would bring in a tiered round robin in some format.

Ulster and Leinster could both have 2 groups of 4. Connacht and Munster could both have 1 group of 4. The top third out counties from each province (2 Munster, 2 Connacht, 3 Ulster and 4 Leinster) and the Tailteann winner could be the 12 to contest the All-Ireland knockout championship. Provincial winners direct to quarter-finals. Provincial runners-up against the other 4 qualifiers.

The Tailteann Cup could be retained for the middle third of counties from each province (2 Munster, 2 Connacht, 3 Ulster and 4 Leinster) and a Tier 3 winner from the previous year. 12 counties again in knockout championship. For Ulster to have 3 teams in the All-Ireland 12, their two semi-final losers could contest a preliminary round.

Finally, the remaining third of counties (2 Munster, 2 Connacht, 3 Ulster, 3 Leinster and possibly New York) can contest a third tier. 11 teams in knockout championship.

On the tiered provincial championship, 2 Munster counties and 2 Connacht counties (including London) can contest a shared tier 2 with the winner promoted to their province. 1 Ulster county and 3 Leinster counties can also contest a shared tier 2 with the winner promoted to their province.

Back on the field of play, Roscommon v Mayo could be an interesting one. Mayo eager to win the group, Roscommon will want a win on the board before taking on Cavan in a possible elimination decider.

elefant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122195474#Comment_122195474

I don't see any system that awards 4 places to the dross in Leinster getting any traction. I think we need less importance placed on the provincials, not more.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198328#Comment_122198328

I take your point. The hurling has that good flow though of league to round robin to knockout.

Listening to the RTE podcast, they are suggesting the Dublin championship of 16 format. Top 2 only going through. Round 1 winners playing in Round 2, guaranteeing that at least one of the Round 3 games cannot be a dead rubber.

Louth v Monaghan should be an interesting battle this weekend. If Louth win, they will potentially setup a shootout with Kerry in Round 3 for winning the group.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122183784#Comment_122183784

For a few years there have been occassions when Langan has shown how good he could be, but there was no consistency from game to game. Under McGuinness he really has come on. Helped in no small degree by being partnered in midfield with Jason McGee who has been an absolute powerhouse for Donegal this year. Both were excellent against Tyrone at the weekend, but for me where they stood up was against Derry and cleaned out two of the best midfielders in the country Rodgers and Glass, with Glass who has been exceptional at club and county since his return having so little impact on the day being moved to full forward. It was a last throw of the dice for Harte, but for Donegal it was the affirming that they had broken Derry and the Donegal defence just swallowed him up.

The group stage is a strange one. As someone said earlier it looks easier to stay in than be eliminated. It just seems to add games unneccesarily to a very crowded schedule with three going through rather than two. The real test in how much relevance it has or it being kept, is how many if any 3rd placed group teams make it through to the QFs. Or if the do how they fare at that stage.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185439#Comment_122185439

Not true Louth were tactically innovative v Dublin. (Compared to Meath/Kildare but that would not be hard) Louth made the pitch wide on attack, hugging touchline they even had their full back out there. They funnelled back when needed, played keep ball when needed, and when they broke they created havoc for the Dublin backline.

Louth showed how far ahead they are of that mickey mouse stuff Meath produce when Louth out thought Meath and gave them a football lesson.

Kildare are in a similar boat.

But a well drilled team and an astute manager can transform a team - Just ask Donegal.

To say that Meath/Kildare and Louth are ALL sh!te is facile in the extreme, and lacks even the most basic awareness.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199641#Comment_122199641

That would be a good idea smaller groups, the Dublin championship structure works well, before the restructure it used to be very lobsided hit/miss as to what games you would get.

legendary.xix

If for arguments sake the provincial championships were as follows: Ulster in 2 groups of 4, Leinster in 2 groups of 4, Munster in 1 group of 4 and Connacht in 1 group of 4, only the top 2 from each group could go forward to a knockout All-Ireland series, plus the Tailteann winner from the previous year.

In the next year of the provincial championships, the Seeds 3 and 4 who missed out on the All-Ireland series could be given two home games. If you have a Leinster group of Dublin, Meath, Westmeath and Laois, Dublin would dominate the group but your Westmeaths and Laois' could have two home games.

Dublin home to Seed 2 Meath. Meath home to Seed 3 Westmeath. Westmeath home to Seed 1 Dublin and Seed 4 Laois. Laois home to Seed 1 Dublin and Seed 2 Meath. This could be applied across all provincial groups of 4 and provincial Tier 2 groups of 4 for those missing out on qualification for their provincial championship.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202636#Comment_122202636

Louth parked the bus and still lost comprehensively to a Dublin going for 19/20.

Meath were once easily second best but losing like Louth to Dublin yearly. Louth will lose interest like everyone else who challenged in Leinster and will fall back. Meath/Kildare don't even try anymore and I'm delighted. Don't give Dublin the satisfaction.

And considering your party attendances no satisfaction is being had. Imagine being the few craziest who waste money following the dubs.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204564#Comment_122204564

Meath don't even try at all anymore you mean, not just against Dublin. An embarrassment

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204564#Comment_122204564

That's unfair on Jack O'Connor actually. He's literally the only player Meath have willing to bring the fight to the opposition. The rest need to look at him

legendary.xix

Donegal, Mayo and Dublin will be the expected away wins on Saturday. Roscommon the most likely to cause an upset. Donegal could very well win the group this weekend. If they are on two having beaten Tyrone and Cork, and Clare are on two losses having lost to Cork and Tyrone, Donegal will have the group win sewn up and Clare will be eliminated. Mayo and Dublin likely to tee up a quarter-final shootout.