Building workshop & office in back garden - Planning?

2011

I plan to build a workshop and office at the end of my back garden. The structure will be around 10 x 3.5 m. The only windows will be below the level of the garden fence and will point towards my house. The highest point of the roof will be around 2 feet higher than the back (block) wall at the end of my garden. I don't expect any of my neighbours to have any issues with this, but I will ask them just to make sure.

My question is from a planning perspective, am I permitted to do this without planning?

Tow

No. 25 sqm is the maximum size allowed without planning, measured externally, across all sheds. The external measurement requirement is a bone of contention, as it is internal for a house extension.

Lumen

Probably not, but you're expressing the dimensions wrong.

What matters is: roof type (pitched or flat), highest point of roof relative to ground, internal floor area.

Internal floor area must be <25sqm taking into account all such structures (although if you also had a cheap shed and wanted to become compliant you'd just knock that).

Height must be <2.5m (flat) or <4m (pitched).

edit:

The external measurement requirement is a bone of contention, as it is internal for a house extension.

Indeed!

sydthebeat

Height must be <3.0m (flat) or <4m (pitched)

Fyp

2011

My roof with be a flat roof with a slight pitch. It will not exceed 3m at any point. I would expect the internal floor area would be larger than 25 m sq.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958612#Comment_121958612

Planning technically required then.

You could chance it but you would be in the wrong legally.

This is it

Isn't there also a requirement for X amount of garden space to remain? Or that's what we were told when buying our property. The shed size was under the threshold for planning, but because the remaining garden space was less than X it needed planning.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958612#Comment_121958612

Your plans are 40 percent increase over the permitted sqm.

Not insignificant ergo. Planning required.

2011

Thanks for the responses

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958320#Comment_121958320

The 25m2 limit also assumes that there have been no previous extensions to the property.
If the area of any such extensions exceeds 25m2, then permission is required for any further extensions, no matter how small.

rob316

There is also a requirement to have a certain amount of garden space left after its built. either way the floor space of your proposed build is far too big without planning.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958353#Comment_121958353

Thanks for the correction, edit function has gone!

Not sure where I got 2.5m from, probably some ancient memory of UK regs.

2011

I was advised yesterday that the 25 sq. m limit can be exceed without planning if the structure is considered "temporary". Supposedly my shed would qualify as it is of similar construction as the one shown below.

Can anyone shed any light on this? Thanks.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982727#Comment_121982727

You've been advised wrong.

"Temporary" status has no legal bearing in Irish domestic planning law.

That's typical bar stool talk

Tow

Was the advisor selling sheds for a living?

You can do anything you want once the neighbours don't complain. My neighbours went to war over a shed, well they were at war before hand. That's were my advice about the 25sqm limit being the external measurement comes from. Actuall hard limits imposed by the County Council inspector. Told to me by the lad who was very narked at having to chop 30% off his newly finish shed.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982727#Comment_121982727

Was this meant to be a Pun ?

If so well played.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982752#Comment_121982752

This is also my reply. Saves me the bother of typing a longer response.

muffler

You're getting the planning exemptions mixed up. This thread is about a garden shed and not an extension. There are different requirements relating to both in order to render them exempt.

Edit: Post no. 10 above should have been quoted with this post. Seems like there are more glitches with Vanilla.

2011

I’m thinking now that I will just proceed with the 35 sq. m shed. The worst that can happen is that I am forced to chop 10 sq. m off the end of it. With the method of construction I am using that would not be too difficult. Besides the chances of any neighbor complaining is practically zero.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984180#Comment_121984180

you could always apply for planning permission. you would have no problem getting it if youve a decent sized garden

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984180#Comment_121984180

Whether you're rural or urban or in between may be relevant, from neighbourly pov. Workshop may imply noise but if DIY workshop, hardly an issue.

From a practical pov, an issue may arise if/ when you go to sell. In which case, allow for that it might have to be knocked or modified then.

It mustn't be living accommodation and of course, as above planning is legally required.

Sleeper12

A temporary structure would be something like a tent or gazebo I would think. A for sale sign or wooden hording around your house during construction is temporary. I can't see yours being temporary especially if you plan to have plumbing & electrics going to it

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958612#Comment_121958612

losing 10sqm between outside and inside. How thick are the walls?

how much garden will

You have left? Some councils require you to have X open space

ted1

It’s not really an issue till to you try and sell

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987137#Comment_121987137

I disagree

Sleeper12

I understand that but the planning department would agree

The Continental Op

OP hope you don't mind me jumping on your thread but an odd question sprung to mind over the mention of "Temporary Structure".

Is a polytunnel a Temporary Structure? Does a large polytunnel need PP?

Many smaller polytunnels are temporary as they have no foundations other than metal tubes in the ground but as they get bigger some are far more permanent with bases that are concreted in.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987756#Comment_121987756

….maybe, but I don’t think so.
However I will seek professional advice. The company that I work for employs a number of architects. I will post the response I get here.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987805#Comment_121987805

I do not believe that poly tunnels need planning

Just like I don’t believe that portakabins need planning.

I was reminded by a colleague (I work for an engineering consultancy) that many of our clients (generally large pharmaceutical companies) have substantial “temporary structures” that did not require planning. These include large switch rooms and workshops.

Anyway, as above I will seek professional advice.

Thanks for the responses.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987872#Comment_121987872

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987872#Comment_121987872

FDI, 100,000 jobs helps

If office is for client facing work where they come visit then….

Sleeper12

The construction forum might be a better option for advice rather than DIY

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987719#Comment_121987719

Not an issue. You’re free to disagree and remain incorrect.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987853#Comment_121987853

Well, you got professional advice on this thread already but looks like you chose to ignore it. Im not even sure why you asked the question in the first place as you have now indicated that you intend to proceed with the proposal.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988532#Comment_121988532

I was not aware that I got professional advice in this thread, that was not made clear to me. Nice to know :)

Since starting the thread I received conflicting advice. Considering the shed as ”temporary” was not something I had considered until it was proposed to me. I accept that this approach may be flawed but I think I will explore it anyway.
What harm?

sydthebeat

uk planning regulations has (or at least used to have) allowance for "temporary structures" in a domestic setting, and thats the source of most of the temporary exemption myth in ireland.

in ireland we absolutely do not have exemptions for "temporary" domestic structures, and yes even a polytunnel will require planning permission if it exceeds the allowable area under exempt regs.

note that ive consistently referred to "domestic" structure when commenting here, as there are absolutely allowance for temporary structures in a commercial activity, such as site cabins on new house scheme builds or civil works etc.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989688#Comment_121989688

The way I see it, pragmatically, "temporary" or moveable structure just makes it easier/cheaper to comply with an order to remove it.

E.g. if you have a 1000 euro polytunnel and the council orders you to take it down, the costs of compliance are….1000 euro.

If you have a caravan and the council orders you to remove it, you can move it or sell it and the costs of compliance are…zero.

Whereas if you have a 30k euro "garden room" and the council orders you to remove it, you're down about 30k because I have never seen such structures for sale, only posted on freebie forums in the form "free to whoever comes and removes it".

Also, I like DIY but if I had a 35sqm shed I wouldn't fancy chopping 30% off it to make it comply. That would be no fun at all.

So I think sensible advice is "first know the regs, and then if you want to ignore them, think about the costs of compliance".

FWIW my shed is arguably non-compliant because it's got a 4m ridge but is built on a hill, so the ridge line is more than 4m from the lowest ground level. My plan B is to crane it or jack it into a hole, which might actually be fun, if nobody dies.

2011

Having thought long and hard about the advice received I have decided to build the shed in a compliant manner. So that means that the footprint of the shed will not exceed 25 sq. meters. Thanks again for all of the advice.

The design I am proceeding with will have a single pitch roof with only a 5 degree pitch. My question is how high am I allowed to build this shed?

The plan is that the roof will be 2.88 m above ground level at the highest point.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122793332#Comment_122793332

5 degree pitch <15 degrees = flat so 3m high.

Source:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/114874687#Comment_114874687

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122793332#Comment_122793332

3 metres high is the max for that type of roof to keep it within the exemptions so you will be fine.

2011

thank you

rob316

Just jumping on this. I'm building a garden room but Im just looking for clarification on this

5. FRONT LINE OF THE PROPERTY

Garden rooms can be built to the rear or side of your property. If you would like to place your room at the side of your property, to meet the exemption criteria you must either screen the garden room with fencing, bushes or trees, or the garden room must match the façade of the existing building.

The structure is been built in the rear of the garden but is in line with the boundary so can be seen from the front but my side has a 2m gate. Is this ok so?

muffler

Is it the rear garden or the rear of the side garden? Also what is the boundary you say it's in line with?

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122797880#Comment_122797880

I'll just show you what I mean, its easier. I presume that is still classed as rear and not side, despite in side view. Pretty common placing for a shed etc I presume?

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122798004#Comment_122798004

Thanks for that. Yes, that would be classed as being to the rear of the house. Im not sure where you pulled the text from in your first post about screening etc as that has no bearing on the exemptions. Im assuming its from the website of some company or other who are selling garden sheds and who know nothing about planning.

You can have a look at the exemptions here (See Class 3 for garden room/shed/garage etc) and the conditions attached to same.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122799710#Comment_122799710

Thanks a lot. Since you know your stuff, where is the 3m height taken from is that from the highest point of land around the structure? Or are the rules not that detailed.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122799742#Comment_122799742

You are right to ask the question and I wish I could give you a definitive answer as the regulations dont specify anything when it comes to varying levels. However it is normally taken from the highest point of the ground level.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122799742#Comment_122799742

As what Exhaust said but be aware of an issue which can arise if shed in built close to or on boundary wall that u share with a pi$$arsed neighbour.

I built a shed to the 3m, he removed 500 mm of clay from along the wall on his side, I had to drop it 500 and he refilled.

It was back in the day when you didn't even need to put it in a brown envelope

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122799771#Comment_122799771

I have a concrete base above ground level about 100mm, so to be safe I better include that in the overall height.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122802274#Comment_122802274

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122802274#Comment_122802274

Yes measure height from undisturbed ground level at the highest point and you can't go wrong.