What is a woman? **Mod Note In Post #294**

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030643#Comment_122030643

No, this is down to YOU misinterpeting things.

All I said was that science has developed procedures for transition.

Now whether or not you believe that the someone who's gone through these procedures is or is not a different gender is up to you. I never commented. All I said was that the procedures exist.

EDIT - @Vote4Squirrels - this applies to you too: read the claim I made, no the claim you think I made.

I believe Dr Robert Winston said it was possible in a link a page or two back, but I can't remember his exact words. Makes no difference because I never claimed that scientists claim that "a person can change everything about their gender".

As to why it can't be done - call the scientist who developed the procedure and tell them. I'm sure they'd love to know how you can persuade them in the errors of their ways.

pc7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029878#Comment_122029878

Until it is your business, if there are trans women in dressing rooms in shops, in toilets, I don't want to share toilets or dressing room with a trans woman. They are taking scholarships and sponsorship places from women in sports were they were just average men but yet taking part as 'women' they are excelling. I used to be of your opinion but now with my daughter I don't want her in shared spaces. Have a trans woman toilet, dressing room and sports category, it shouldn't be wrong or illegal not to consider them women. If a trans man wanted to date me as a straight woman I just wouldn't be attracted to them, I cannot change that instinct in myself the same way I cannot change sex.

For example - I can tell someone I don't believe in God and they can say they do and we can respect that viewpoint, but I can't tell a trans woman they aren't a woman or that I believe a woman is an adult human female or I'm a terf, bigot or worse

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030671#Comment_122030671

We all know science have developed procedure but can you show us one just one which , "Transitions your gender "

Your being very careful with your wording because you know yourself what you are claiming is impossible ,

ohh the same Dr Robert Winston who claims Transgender surgery is mutilation,

“becomes a problem because of course occasionally you end up with somebody who is born a male but then wants to become a female, so you can have that mutilating operation”

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030682#Comment_122030682

Are you doing this delierately? I've just told you - literally in the post you replied to - that I only claimed they existed, not that they worked, nor that they were possible or impossible.

Either you've misread my claim AGAIN or you're asking me to prove something "we all know"?

If you're just looking for info, sure - https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20475262

not sure it matches your criteria because I'm still not completely sure you've actually accepted and understood what I've written.

89897

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030677#Comment_122030677

More social media hysterics, when is this ever going to affect you??

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030385#Comment_122030385

I’ve quoted exactly what you said

“My point is: transitioning gender is scientifically possible.”

What are the quantifiable scientific parameters of this gender transition, what actually changes?

Doctors cut off a part of you and leave a hole where that part formerly was. That’s it. It hasn’t changed the bone density, hasn’t increased the chances of getting cervical cancer or lessened the chances of getting prostate cancer. It doesn’t widen the hips or birth canal or allow you to carry children or naturally lactate or menstruate.

For example we know that ice can transition to water, or vapour. When it becomes water, it transitions from a solid state to a liquid state, and to vapour it becomes a gas form. Quantifiable changes from its former form. Solid state ice can’t just stay frozen and believe it’s water.

As you said above, belief in sky fairies or gods doesn’t make it real, the same as believing you are a different gender. It’s the exact same principle.

pc7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030767#Comment_122030767

Its affecting women in lots of places currently, especially in sports, you have no idea if its affected me or not. Anyway as I say in my post I know what a woman is and social media has nothing to do with it.

89897

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030857#Comment_122030857

Again no its not, the percentage of trans people in any community is so small the risk of anything you mentioned happening is miniscule.

Of all the huge issues in this world effecting women, why this one? Why discriminate against trans people? Why do you think all trans women pose a threat to you?

By the way, there are absoluetly people that will cry heresy if you tell them your religious beliefs dont match theirs, the same way there are people that wont call you a bigot based on your belief. They may call out bigoted behaviour however.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030839#Comment_122030839

You might have quoted, but you didn't read. Again.

Before we go ANY further, answer a question for ME: are you saying that gender reassignment procedures do not exist - yes or no?

Man Vs ManUre

Is Barbie a woman if she has no foofph??

pc7

how am I discriminating against them?I just don’t believe a trans woman is a woman and I don’t want to share toilets/dressing rooms or a sporting field with them. As for women and issues affecting them this was a discussion on what is a woman and I gave my view, why would I fill you in on other causes or opinions I have on women in this country or world.

89897

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030906#Comment_122030906

"I dont want to share toilet/dressing rooms or a sporting field with them" That there literally is discrimination, its also bigotry.

pc7

I don’t want to derail the thread as I’ve posted on the sports one on this but going through male puberty leads to physiological changes that give an advantage in most sports. In the toilets why not just have single toilets and cubicles, why the need to share? Why the want to be in there? Anyway going to leave it there 89897 as we could go in circles for pages and both still believe our own views.

RoboRat

A woman is someone who doesn't have a Y chromosome unless they have Swyer syndrome.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030892#Comment_122030892

No I don’t believe so. You cannot reassign gender no more than you can reassign species. Like lizard man I posted earlier today. It may be called that, but some people will say anything to make money.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030976#Comment_122030976

Well in that case, Mayo Clinic link I posted earlier.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20475262

Proves you wrong, they do exist.

This is the ONLY claim I made and this is the evidence of proof that the therapies exist you asked for.

The answer to all other questions you asked or are likely to ask is, "I didn't claim that." That or you need to call the Mayo Clinic an pick and tell that you know more about reassigning gender than they do.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030892#Comment_122030892

Earlier you said "we're not talking about surgery", so what are we talking about?

I think most people when they hear 'gender reassignment' would think we're talking about surgery

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031075#Comment_122031075

Click on the Mayo Clinic link in the previous post for answers to that one.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031075#Comment_122031075

Mayo Clinic link in the previous post will answer that one for you, section "therapies".

And please don't ask me to comment on them or how successful they are - I don't know, I never claimed to know and I only just got Tiktok off my back - all I'm doing is politely answering your question with a more knowledable source :)

Vic_08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030485#Comment_122030485

There is no such thing as "Fully transitioned" as it is not possible to transition, only to partially appropriate some characteristics that look like the opposite sex.

Biological males, no matter what they think of themselves or have done to their bodies through medication or surgery have no business being in any spaces that are reserved for women and girls.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030712#Comment_122030712

Your posting something that is giving you treatment in your believe of the the social construct that you want to your gender ,

You science has " surgery" so that indicates you mean changing yourself physically form a Male to a Female,

Can you clear up what you mean,

As the Dr you quoted doesn't believe you can change physically he claims Transgender surgery is mutilation,

“becomes a problem because of course occasionally you end up with somebody who is born a male but then wants to become a female, so you can have that mutilating operation”

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030671#Comment_122030671

Prof Winston did not say it was possible to scientifically change gender. What he is saying that "gender identity" is merely appearance, not an inherent characteristic in the way that sex is. That's why he has agreed with Kathleen Stock, who also says this, and why TRAs have called him transphobic.

https://www.christian.org.uk/news/professor-winston-abused-online-raising-evidence-transsexualism/

I mean, if you're going to claim he agrees with you, then perhaps you're just more "transphobic" than you realise?

JupiterKid

Mod:-

Please refrain from engaging in a tit-for-tat, circular argument on the issue of transgender identity and culture war politics.

There is more than enough discussion on this issue on other threads and especially in the Current Affairs forum.

Anyone engaging in personal abuse will be threadbanned.

JK

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031132#Comment_122031132

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031132#Comment_122031132

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031211#Comment_122031211

Again: I've answered all these questions or never made the claim you think I made.

I made ONE claim. It exists. I backed it up. To a clinic offering the exact thing I said existed. I really can NOT make this any clearer!!! End of disucssion.

If you want to argue this further, talk about surgery, dispute the results of it, dispute the validty of results, talk about lizards or anything else - then either phone the clinic and take it up with them, or someone else who made the claim you think I made - because I did NOT make or comment on ANY of these topics.

I'm done here.

Kingslayer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029881#Comment_122029881

lol

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030950#Comment_122030950

This toilet obsession is bizarre. Just over 600 trans women legally exist in Ireland. Have you nothing else is life to worry about other than endless obsessing about which toilet that 0.001% of the population use.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032634#Comment_122032634

I presume that post was in relation to toilets / changing rooms in regard to sports

PoisonIvyBelle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030677#Comment_122030677

You'll see a further post I made where there is a line in specific instances re: changing rooms etc.

PoisonIvyBelle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031115#Comment_122031115

I don't get what you're responding to. I never made any comment on "fully transitioned" or transitioning in my post. I referred to women and trans women being different but both deserving of respect and kindness.

Jack Daw

Trans women are not women.

If they want to live their lives as women , wear whatever they want and be addressed Ms/Miss etc then fair enough, I'm happy to play along just to be nice to keep them happy within reason like if they don;t get all huffy if you make an innocent mistake and use the wrong pronoun.

However they are not actually women simple as that and if women believe that there should be women only spaces like rape crisis centres, women's refuges, womens sports then that is perfectly reasonable and if trans women want their rights respected they should respect the beliefs of actual women and let them have their own spaces.