School bullying

terryduff12

The principal never told me, the teacher mumble there was an incident and the principal would deal with it after holidays. I explained this in my post. I would have expected the principal who was dealing with the matter to come and have told me what happened but he didnt as obviously he wasnt bothered. As I said my son told me that a few of them have been trying to pull others pants down last few weeks.

My son doesn't tell me every little drama that happens at school as I've told him he has to deal with it as I can't be fighting his battles. Is boards not a discussion forum to talk about things?? I didn't mention names or the school name so don't see what the problem is.

Blind As A Bat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933762#Comment_121933762

That kind of makes a difference. If it's been going on for a while and others have been targeted then it's not a bullying issue. It's a discipline/school management issue. Boys going a bit wild because there are no consequences for their behaviour. Lame Principal by the sound of it. You have to drop on them like a ton of bricks when they start that kind of thing. It often starts with smaller stuff and if you let that go, the behaviour escalates.

If I were Principal of a school where that was going on, every child who'd done it would be up in my office and the parents would be too. I'd also call a school assembly and the boys who had done this to others would be making a public apology to the whole school for their behaviour.

Sorry your kid had to deal with that. Try to have a nice Easter holiday with him now and don't let it spoil things for you. He'll be off to secondary school soon and can leave the half-arsed Principal behind ;)

Rubberchikken

It's no wonder bullying in any form isn't properly dealt with in schools when the responses here include the principals Easter holiday will be upset, the boy who did it is normally a 'good kid ' so why take it any further, maybe it's highjinks before holidays, possibly dated by someone else etc etc.

What a load of shite.

This behaviour is appalling and should be dealt with. The principal and teacher would be allowed to let this slide judging by the sorry responses here.

I wouldn't go near the kid. His parents or even other parents.

Your child Op is your responsibility. His safety is your responsibility. The principal had a duty to ensure the pupils are safe and unmolested. Let them man up and do the job they're paid to do.

I hope it gets sorted.

For too long principals and teachers hide away when this type of thing happens.

What would they actually do if their kid was the victim🥴

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121933525#Comment_121933525

It is a regular school prank whether you choose to believe it or not.

I can understand you’re feeling hurt but I wouldn’t have thought it was an issue for the guards.

screamer

If that was an adult it would be assault.

As someone who got bullied incessantly at school, I take no shite from teachers if my kids are reporting bullying. Straight down to the principal and lodge a formal complaint, ask to see their bullying policy bring a copy with you. id expect no less than a public apology from the wrong doer in front of the class that he humiliated your son in front of, and a suspension from school to give his mum and dad a bit of time to think about what their son did.

id fully engage with a solicitor if the school is dismissive because at 12 years old, the bully is old enough to know better and appalling behaviour should not go un-checked.

my best thoughts and wishes to your son, its awful to be so publicly humiliated in such a way, he must feel very embarrassed and vulnerable. Please reassure him and stay close to him as he navigates it all. i know you will, i feel angry and upset for him.

AnnieinDundrum

Our kids schools had clear anti bullying policies. Repeated and targeted and deliberate were key features of the definition. Have a look at the school policies.

i think the teacher and principal should have communicated better, but you’ve no idea what else was going that afternoon so maybe an immediate reply wasn’t possible. I get that you didn’t want this over the holiday but that’s an unfortunate situation, probably not one of the principal’s making. They have home lives and families too.

write a note to the head asking for a meeting asap and try to park it until the next term.

by the way, boundaries, you can ask that the school handle the incident and increase supervision. But you have no authority to dictate or even suggest punishment and no right to know what punishment is meted out.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934259#Comment_121934259

The problem is the system lets teachers do **** all beyond endless talks and notes in journals etc and a certain cohort of kids and their parents who dont give a shite know it

This type of shite proliferates when everyone has a right to an education but there are **** all consequences for the ones that dont live up to their responsibilities

You heard how difficult it was to suspend a kid earlier, that wasnt always the case but it has been for a long time...a kid can get away with persistent misbehaviour now and its usually multiple talks and parents being callled in etc and the kid not improving their behaviour or finding different ways to cause hassle to everyone for sometimes their entire time in education....they just remain pricks their entire teenage years....discipline is difficult/nigh on impossible without consequences (and Im not talking about corporal punishment btw)

Actual consequences dont happen to nip stuff like this in the bud like they used to....and everyone is afraid of their shadow tied up in knots when it comes to the crunch because who wants the hassle of legal challenges etc etc

Sometimes the problem is a suspension wouldnt even work, they want it, its a badge of honour and they have a nice time at home....its a consequence of a certain cohort of parents viewing a school as a babysitting service too

There are no swift eye opening interventions for sometimes horrendously spoiled/entitled/thugghish behaviour now....its endless ineffective (in a lot of cases) beating around the bush for that cohort...its all carrots and talking and no stick.

A bit like our legal system...perhaps its no surprise schools have to mirror society to some degree.

Treppen

I wouldn't really be happy if I was a parent and be told to forget about it.

Principal could have easily allayed some of the parent's concerns by a phone call. The school had a duty of care to the son... so who was in Loco parentis at the time? Is it ok to leave kids unsupervised because "they're in 6th class".

"he said that since their in sixth class there responsible enough to be on their own for short periods." Obviously the kids who did this have disproven his own theory.

If it happened amongst adults in the workplace would it be ok to say, move on or, forget about it for a couple of weeks, it's just horse play... or are kids worth less?

I'll double down on my above suggestion to the op, talk to other parents and see if it happened to their kids.

mulbot

If this happened to my child, I'd be sending an older brother or cousin to give the little scrote a bit of a hands on.

AnnieinDundrum

If it happened in a changing room after a school match in secondary school would you be calling the gardai?

the horseplay that goes on there is apparently very similar

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938492#Comment_121938492

The op has said this is going on a while between a group of them. Should every child in the group not get a talking to, not just the one who did it this time, how do we know thst the ops kids didnt do similar to another child?

AnnieinDundrum

the entire class should get a talking to about rough play/inappropriate play etc.

if it’s a repeated “game” they all need reminding of school rules. If it’s targeted on a few kids and repeated then it might be classed as bullying and that needs to be stopped.

the gardai and parents should not be involved in talking to the kids, unless laws have been broken.

parents need to be assured that action is being taken but not the specifics. If you don’t trust the school to take action that’s a whole other matter,

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940100#Comment_121940100

And If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle. Going by previous posts It happened during school time when kids were left unsupervised. Also the principal said that the kids were mature enough to be left unsupervised.

Calling it horseplay doesn't make it any less hurtful.

If it happened in your workplace would you say it's "only horseplay".

AnnieinDundrum

no need to be sarky treppen.

it was a genuine question. Directed to the OP who did talk to the gardai.

would you call the gardai if it happened in secondary school?

my son plays football at university. Similar stuff happens when they are hyped up after a game. I’m not saying anywhere that it’s right. And I said horseplay, not only horseplay. You put in the only, not me,

as I also said, the whole school needs a talking to about rules and appropriate behaviour.

if it happened in my workplace I wouldn’t call the gardai, I’d report the person to HR.

Crakepottle?

It's an assault. Not a capital offence, but then to dismiss it as just a bit of laddish horseplay is completely unacceptable. We all know that one incident doesn't constitute bullying,but any anti bullying policy that I've ever read provides for instant action when a very serious line has been crossed in one solitary incident.The fact that the Gardai are mentioned indicates not a hysterical overreaction on the part of a parent, but rather a complete lack of confidence in the school's willingness and /or ability to protect a child against further exposure to this behaviour. Children have had SPHE on the official Primary school curriculum since 1999. They all know the parts of the body that are private,"the ones covered by your swimsuit".

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121942990#Comment_121942990

I'm staggered you think a university football team after a match is anyway relevant to this situation.

AnnieinDundrum

One of the schools I’ve had involvement with would have dealt with this appropriately I think. Another I know would certainly not, I had zero confidence in them, so I took my son out after I realised how bad they were. Another I was less certain about but thankfully never occasion to find out.

i certainly wouldn’t dismiss it as unimportant. I would have given them the opportunity to address it before calling the gardai. The timing was unfortunate. I am surprised that the head didn’t contact the OP, but who knows what else was going on. Maybe it’s a small school and the head wasn’t able to delegate it, they should have though.

Ezeoul

These are sixth class kids.

In a very short period of time, they will be moving onto secondary school, and are no longer the primary school Principal's problem.

My guess is, they will try to downplay this as "boys being boys" and won't make any more than a token effort at consequences for the offenders. They'll probably get a "talk".

Though the memory of being humiliated may stay with the OP's young lad for a long time to come.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943597#Comment_121943597

Whats more likely to stay with him is that his mother let everyone know including his friends parents and the Gardai.

farmerval

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121927964#Comment_121927964

You hit the nail on the head in the middle of the above, when a strict teacher was in charge the bullies were unhappy and the other kids happy. That would have been our children's school experience down to a tee.

It really is that simple. If teachers are lax and allow messing in the class then some child will suffer. Someone will be the butt of jokes or bullying etc.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943677#Comment_121943677

A path the OP wouldn't have gone down, if the Principal had bothered to contact them in the first place, instead of scurrying off on holidays.

(As an aside, I assumed the OP was the child's father? Not that it really matters.)

BorneTobyWilde

Suspenders, or a good belt would at least prevent the possibility

terryduff12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943677#Comment_121943677

Lot of assumptions in that post, my child doesn't know any of what happened after school. My cousin his godfather up the north knows, that's it. So unless the principal tells him that will be the only way he will find out.

lulublue22

delete

Crakepottle?

A Principal afraid to address situations because some loud aggressive parents will talk them down? Easier to let matters slide? "Sure that crowd were always trouble. We'll just try to keep a lid on them for another couple of years and then they won't be our problem any more. God I wouldn't take on Penelopes mother. She's a right dragon." Meanwhile quiet compliant children are seriously disadvantaged, teachers disrespected and learning outcomes thrown to the dogs. Children are frequently inclined to do what they can get away with.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952203#Comment_121952203

Ive often wondered what would I do if I were the principal

What could I do that would encourage little continuously disruptive johnnie and or jemima to straighten up and fly right? or worse to try encourage his or her parents that may not care in the slightest about the situation

What tools are at the principals disposal nowadays that represent an actual consequence to that cohort...and are feasible (in terms of resources and I include time as a not unlimited resource in that, and backup from the system and not facing undue hassle/blowback from overly litigious parents or just plain crazy ones that spend too much time in their respective echo chambers - like a story i heard recrntly about some loon insisting his kids did not have to abide by covid rules as it was all a conspiracy led by evil tony holohan etc)

terryduff12

So I got the low down from my son after school today they were brought into the office and he said the principal couldn't punish the lad as he doesn't like the school or education and would leave school at 16 if he was punished. Make it make sense. He then showed my son his school file and said all the other boys have incidents on there files so it's normal.

He told my son if I wanted to talk to him about this I could ring him. My son said you can get away with anything now, hes not impressed with the way its neen was handle. I told him to work away someone does something to him do it back and if he gets in trouble for the principal to contact me.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993756#Comment_121993756

Jesus wept.

It really would make you tempted to take matters into your own hands (don't do that).

Blind As A Bat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121954282#Comment_121954282

I wasn't a Principal, just an ordinary class teacher but what I used to do was isolate the child socially, time out big time, if you get my drift. If I had a child who behaved in an anti-social manner upsetting other kids I would seat them alone, beside my own desk, they weren't allowed to eat with the others or go to the yard. They had to stay with me all the time. Sit outside the staff room at lunch time etc. I would put them on this regime for a day, having explained why they were on it, then they went back to the group. If they 'reoffended' they were out again but this time for two days. It was a simple system that the youngest kid could understand. You don't keep the rules of the group, you upset other people, you're out of the group.

I had a few complaints from parents over the years but I was lucky the Principal backed me up and I explained it was for the child's own good. I used to be quite blunt with the parents along the lines of 'it starts with this and ends up when he's fifteen with him either dead in the street from a fight or on his to way to Mountjoy for killing somebody'. They used to do the 'ah Jaysus' routine sometimes but on the whole if they get the impression that you care what happens to their child and don't want to see them dead or banged up, they come round in the end.