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Assisted dying

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    #122
    Vote4Squirrels
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948909#Comment_121948909

    Dementia sufferers do not “live” when the disease progresses.



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    #123
    Oscar_Madison
    Registered Users Posts: 5,089 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948916#Comment_121948916

    Oh don’t I well know it- countless family and relatives have succumbed over the last 30 years - whilst most would probably not have elected for assisted dying, (more out of religious belief) I reckon one at least would have opted for that



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    #124
    Redliketoast
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Redliketoast


    There is no need to keep going back to the Canada stuff. Its been said. Either you get it or you dont.

    My biggest worry is that my mother, my father, my uncle. Thats on my side. My wife's side is the same. I could name 6 like-type relatives who would all "not want to be a burdon".

    Lets say i had a brain tumour and i am told there is nothing more they can do for me. Already tried surgery and treatment etc. I have now already spend a lot of money on these treatments and hotels to stay in waiting etc. I am told that there is a very good specialist in Edinburgh but chances are there is nothing that can be done. If i go it will cost more money. If i stay i will eventually need more care at home and it will cost loads of money. Thats not even considering i have a 5 and 3 year old. Money is tight. My wife doesnt need to have the extra workload of looking after me too.

    So tell me this. If assisted suicide was there. Why wouldnt i choose it?

    As i said i can think of over 10 members of my wifes and my side combined who would choose it in that scenario. Money and "hassle" will become part of the thought process. "Pain" is not the only deciding factor fornthe person.

    Even if i am in agony. I would love to be able to be there to see my kids grow up. No matter how much pain. The burdon and finances shouldn't be an issue. Thats what we need to fix!!! Not the state again, just wiping our hands clean of responsibility of caring for people.

    If it comes in here it will be the best intentions. Im sure of that. BUT there will always be people pushing for more to be included. Again with good intentions. That why people keep talking about Canada

    either you get it or you really dont......



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    #125
    gym_imposter
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    I'm in favour of euthanasia but it absolutely must be governed in a strict fashion, I live with chronic pain myself and there is nothing character building about enduring it



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    #126
    Redliketoast
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Redliketoast


    Our whole medical sector needs to be improved. We are about to have the most expensive hospital on the planet but not enough resources to even run it. That sums up our health care



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    #127
    animalinside
    Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭animalinside


    Very harsh to say dementia sufferers "do not live".

    NOT "harsh but true", it could be taken as extremely offensive for some circumstances.



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    #128
    Vote4Squirrels
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968210#Comment_121968210

    I stand by it having seen my father suffer for years.

    It is not a life to have to relive the death of one’s spouse daily; it is not a life to cry when you realise in a lucid moment you forgot who your child was and it not a life to forget how to do the basics such as go to the toilet - upsetting for a toddler but soul crushing for a grown man.

    I appreciate that in the current world being “offended” is so terrible but dementia doesn’t care.



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    #129
    animalinside
    Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭animalinside


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968588#Comment_121968588

    You deserve a royal massive smack across your face for being so disrespectful and plain stupid.

    Watching your father doesn't give you the right to say anything about other people and it's really disgusting to see you say that about your father.

    In the current world? So because you read about something wokeness people aren't allowed to take offence at any statement now, even denying someone's humanity now? No more being offended by anything, not allowed?

    Mod

    Warned for this post

    Post edited by Sephiroth_dude on


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    #130
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,683 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968588#Comment_121968588

    A dementia patient does not need to be told daily that their spouse has died. Proper dementia care just distracts them onto another topic.

    By the standard you outline, many disabled people should be put down to avoid them suffering.



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    #131
    Vote4Squirrels
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970703#Comment_121970703

    I didn’t say they were reminded - I said my dad remembered when he was more himself.

    I’ll thank you not to put words in my mouth. I have made my comments based on seeing my father suffer and knowing I would not want to go through that.

    The side against medically assisted dying want to push their views on others; I merely want the opportunity to avail of it.

    The cruelty of the anti side never ceases to sadden me.



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    #132
    dulpit
    Registered Users Posts: 10,269 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970703#Comment_121970703

    Who's saying disabled people need to be put down? The whole point of assisted dying is that it's the choice of the person who is ill to make, not anybody else's.

    If I had some terminal disease and decided to end it and had the physical capacity to do so, then I can make that choice. But if I had some disease that meant I no longer had the physical capacity I'd lose that choice myself.



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    #133
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,683 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971434#Comment_121971434

    A person with dementia would not be able to make the choice though . So doctor-administered-death is not relevant for them at all.



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    #134
    dulpit
    Registered Users Posts: 10,269 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971477#Comment_121971477

    Which is why there should be a mechanism in place to allow people with early symptoms to make a decision (if they wish) for a point in the future. If they want.



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    #135
    Jack Daw
    Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    The Zorya Ter Beek situation is wrong.

    https://nypost.com/2024/04/02/world-news/28-year-old-woman-decides-to-be-euthanized-due-to-mental-health-issues/

    She is only 28 , the fact that the Psychiatrist has given up and suggested this is the only option available is an utter disgrace.

    I get how her life could be unimaginably painful, I get how why she wants to commit suicide but if she really wants to commit suicide she should do it herself and not have another organisation help her do it.

    As someone who's suffered from depression and anxiety and who has seriously contemplated suicide in the past it is terrifying that her psychiatrist has said this is her only option, imagine having such an unsupportive health profession dealing with your illness, who knows if I had been in her situation maybe I'd have been nudged down that path by my doctors rather than having someone who really tries to help you.

    This whole story is very dystopian.



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    #136
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,683 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971934#Comment_121971934

    The problem being - how do you determine if the persons wishes are still the same when that time comes.

    I'm not unsympathetic to the challenges: I've watched one parent die of pneumonia with bad dementia and one following strokes. It would have been a LOT easier - and financially very beneficial - for me to have ended their lives sooner. And that's exactly why I don't believe the option should be there: People WILL abuse it.



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    #137
    dulpit
    Registered Users Posts: 10,269 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972582#Comment_121972582

    Take it out of the family's hands so. For people with dementia have some sort of independent panel or board, that only convenes if the patient has previously (when well enough) confirmed they want assisted dying as an option.



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    #138
    Vote4Squirrels
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972895#Comment_121972895

    You won't get anywhere, there is a lobby here that do not want medically assisted dying under any possible circumstances.

    They can look to a basket case of a country like Canada and say it's not worked (under Trudeau nothing would work there) = I prefer to look at Switzerland where it is managed well and Diginitas especially, I plan to put a sum aside from my pension lump sum in a few years to pay for it should I need to; I have no family but my loved ones know my wishes.

    If people are squeamish about allowing this, then fine - let's have a middle ground. Let people go to a country like Switzerland where all the paperwork, legalities etc can be handled properly so that no one goes there who doesn't want to = but remove the threat of 14 years in prison on their return ? We live in a digital age - a video living will can be made and repeated at any time. Why not ?



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    #139
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,931 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948809#Comment_121948809

    Since when does "significant amount of time to live" matter?

    In fact one could argue that a significant amount of time, with little or no quality of life, is precisely why we need assisted dying. In the case of a friend of the family's mother, 2 years with MND. It was horrific. Others are forced to suffer for even longer.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #140
    Redliketoast
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Redliketoast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972895#Comment_121972895

    An independent board will never be fully independent. So a group of strangers call along to you and say "its time to put mammy down". That does not sit right with me. Neither does someone talk about how they watched a loved one suffer "FOR YEARS". That means they lived FOR YEARS. Dementia doesnt always come with physical pain. Any physical pain is often due to a lack of full time care. Yes there is a lot of emotional and mental pain. It is hard reliving memories and not remembering who is on front of you. Its a horrible thing. But "putting them out if their misery" is a disgusting attitude and a reason for Assisted murder to not exist.

    We need better health resources in this country. We are about to put the country into the hands of a moron who helped destroy said health care.



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    #141
    Redliketoast
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Redliketoast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975611#Comment_121975611

    "little or no quality in life" is an opinion. That is a perspective.

    Take my Grandmother for example. We are a very small and very close family. The woman was dying slowly for her final few years. Yes at times retrospectively I think "she suffered for her final years". But other times I remember how she LOVED being there with the great grandkids. She loved seeing her friends and extended family call to her house. She Loved going getting her hair done even though it was so much work to get her to the hairdressers and back. I in no way claim it was easy. It was a full time job done by myself and another. Then there was a Bluebird care who we had for a half hour every morning and some other family who would take turns helping out. It was hard work. But that woman spent her final years being treated with respect. IF Assisted Murder was available back then she would have availed because she like many others I mentioned, never wanted to be a bother.

    If we had proper health care in this country, "being a bother" wouldnt be a deciding factor. Money wouldnt be a deciding factor.

    Just because you think they had no quality of life doesnt mean they didnt have some sort of life. My gran eventually passed away over night. In the weeks leading to it she was sleeping more and eating less. But she had her moments that I know meant the world to her. Plus her great grandkids actually got to have conversations with her. That meant so much to her.

    Nobody has a right to kill or commit suicide. NOBODY



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    #142
    Vote4Squirrels
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978434#Comment_121978434

    Please stop referring to this as "assisted murder" - murder is a crime on the statute books and you have no right to equate what people are asking for at the end of their life with a vicious crime.



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    #143
    dulpit
    Registered Users Posts: 10,269 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978382#Comment_121978382

    That's a very callous view. I'm not saying that they would come unannounced. It would have to be driven by the patient in the first instance. If they get dementia and never express an interest in assisted dying while they are fully aware, then this wouldn't arise. It would never be suggested to patients, regardless of their specific illnesses. But if the patient wants it, why prevent them?

    Say if I have debilitating and terminal cancer. I could make the decision to end things, and could arrange for different ways to do that. But if I have MND and decide I want to end things, I could be in a position where I no longer have the ability to move, which means that choice is no longer available to me. Which means that if I had MND and assisted dying was something I wanted for myself I'd either need to take that decision early (while I still have mobility) because currently if you wait until you lose your mobility you're snookered.



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    #144
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,034 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971477#Comment_121971477

    My father died (mercifully quickly, within a year) from dementia.

    Before it was even a thought on the horizon he made it clear to all of us that he had zero interest of being in a home, nevermind being in one with dementia. The expression "if I am ever like that, take me out and shoot me" was often used.

    Little did we all know what was in store for him.



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    #145
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,034 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972582#Comment_121972582

    So we should take away everything that some people might abuse?



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    #146
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,034 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978434#Comment_121978434

    "Nobody has a right to commit suicide"

    Really? And pray tell who decides on that?



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    #147
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,034 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978434#Comment_121978434

    Your gran isn't really the scenario that people are talking about though. But anyway, you are deciding that her final years were worth the suffering that she endured. How nice of you to decide things for her. Seems a tad contradictory though, doesn't it? You get to choose when someone else should live, but not when they should die?

    Frankly it seems like your opinion is based on some religious "though shalt not kill or commit suicide" ideas rather than anything else.



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    #148
    Vote4Squirrels
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121979105#Comment_121979105

    My dad's was "pull the ***king plug girl" - condolences to you, it's a bastard of a disease to see someone go through.



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    #149
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,350 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i don't see a big deal about it. implement it, but only open to people who are verifiably compos mentis and have opted in; a living will, if you wish. state that 'under the following circumstances, should i reach a specific point, i wish to opt for euthanasia'.

    and if you reach a predefined, medically verifiable point in your illness, then you proceed.

    that way you can't just bump gran off for the inheritance as the decision has to have been both her's and a medical team's decision.



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    #150
    Vote4Squirrels
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121979213#Comment_121979213

    Hear flipping hear!!!!

    It's Repeal all over again "I don't like it so no one else should do it!"



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    #151
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,671 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121979115#Comment_121979115

    The Oireachtas, seeing as politicians are the only people who can make legislation:

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41166457.html


    There is currently no such recognition in Irish law of a right to die by suicide. Suicide was decriminalised in 1993, but there’s nothing in Irish law which recognises suicide as a right under any circumstances, and assisting anyone in dying by suicide is obviously a no-no.



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