Almost a cheater?!

maddierthan

Hi,

My husband and I (both early 40s) have always had what I thought was a good relationship.

During the week he went on a work night out and came home very late and ridiculously drunk. I put it down to him getting carried away with the night (we have a you kid so nights out are a rarity).

I was naturally a bit pissed and asked where he had been and who he was with and he was with one other guy and a girl from work. No recollection of where they went etc.

Cut to last night, he had been out with a friend for the parade etc., got home as I was going to bed. He was pretty drunk again. I left him to eat his pizza and went to bed. He proceeded to text this girl he'd been out with on his work night. Just "Hi". She replied with "is this a drunken text?!😋" He said yes, how was your st Patricks? She said she hadn't been drinking since the work night out as she had been dying since

That was it (probably because my husband passed out on the sofa). I know it seems innocent but I don't think it is.

Who texts someone after a work night out, just hi? I think he was fishing for something...what do you think?

All opinions welcome!!

taxAHcruel

I know I often send such texts. Especially to people who spent most of their night - or the very end of their night - with me. As dumb as it sounds I tend to feel such people are partly "my responsibility" in that I always need to know they got home safe, got on ok. It's like a kind of "closure" I tend to seek. So I very often get home after a night out somewhere and send a few such texts.

So really your question is unanswerable for readers of your thread - like myself. There are any number of explanations - good and bad - for such a text.

Seems he was showing you the texts? That certainly suggests it is not nefarious.

Rubberchikken

For the moment I'd be a little concerned about the alcohol consumption.

You both have a young child. Is the day after your husband's night out written off to recovering?

He showed you the text so seems to be hiding nothing but maybe it's time you both had a chat when you get a chance.

I know it's difficult with a young child but you deserve to have your worry discussed

Witcher

How do you know who/what he texted? In what circumstances did these texts come to light?

You didn't clarify that.

maddierthan

I saw the text because he was passed out on the sofa with his phone alarm going off on his chest.

To turn it off you have to slide up the unlock and it opened on his half finished text to the girl

I firmly agree that the drinking is another issue. I've brought it up several times but I'm never heeded

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909582#Comment_121909582

Hate to be cynical but the most likely explanation sounds like you were going through his phone. If you were, that's for you to deal with rather than explain to a bunch of internet randomers.

On the face of it, the text seems fairly innocent but there could well be more to it. Impossible to know really. "Is this a drunken text" would suggest that he may text her regularly while drunk but that's a pretty big assumption on my part.

huey1975

Is she young and hot? Has your libido decreased ? If the answer to both of these is yes well then there’s a fair chance your husband is almost a cheater. If some hot young girl comes on to him when he’s drunk it would be incredibly difficult for him to turn it down. If he had the option of a one night stand or going home and probably getting nothing……… well don’t be surprised if he makes a decision that would disappoint you. I don’t mean to victim blame but if he’s not cheating or thinking about it you should be counting your blessings

Drunk people do stupid things and don’t really worry about the consequences.

maddierthan

That is exactly how I came across the text. I have never gone through my husband's phone. He leaves his phone around all the time and I've once been bothered to look at it because I've honestly never doubted him. His phone opened in WhatsApp and yes o had a look because I'm only human!

JeffKenna

That doesn't seem at all innocent to me. Speaking from past experience, if I texted a girl after a feed of drink like, I wouldn't be doing it for platonic reasons.

maddierthan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909671#Comment_121909671

I have to say I appreciate the directness of your reply. I guess with life being a bit mad at the moment (for a variety of reasons) things in the bedroom haven't been great.

Part of me was thinking I was overreacting. It was only a text to say Hi.

But then I also think there's no such thing as just a Hi text...to a colleague....when you're drunk...after having spent a night drinking with her a few days previous.

maddierthan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909719#Comment_121909719

That's exactly what my gut is telling me

huey1975

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909729#Comment_121909729

Sorry I just read back my reply and it was a bit more direct than I intended. If you have a good relationship it is a massive leap and breach of trust to ruin that by messing around with a work colleague. Is she like a “work spouse “ that he shares everything with? Do women consider having a “work spouse” cheating?

There is a fair chance that he would never normally cheat as he would have too much to lose but the drinking would obliterate inhibitions. A drunken one night stand with a stranger is very different to a liaison with a work colleague where there has been flirting , banter and building sexual tension for weeks or months.

How much worse is “being a cheater “ than “almost a cheater”? Some men would spend hours chatting to women with no intention of following through just they can think to themselves “I never lost it”

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909719#Comment_121909719

Me too, it sounds like he fancied a continuation of the flirting that was possibly going on on the previous night out. She's clearly in his thoughts which coupled with drunkenness resulted in him texting.

Tbf to the girl she seems to have responded very platonically.

OP I'd be having a discussion with my husband to nip this in the bud, I'd say he'd be horrified that you know about the text. Certainly don't let him gaslight you about going through his phone.

YellowLead

At least it seems like nothing has happened so far. The girl is aware that it’s an odd thing to do, hence she asked if it was a drunken text - because a sober person would be unlikely to text a colleague of the opposite gender with ‘hi’.

He fancies her - whether he’d actually go ahead with anything is another story, he might just enjoy flirting. I’d be worried as to what his intent is and if this is a slippery slope to cheating. I’d say mention it to him - say you were walking past and his phone pinged. You’ll probably be able to tell a lot from his reaction if there is guilt involved.

tea and coffee

I wouldn't read too much into it, but I would keep any eye on it

I'd be more worried about the drinking tbh

appledrop

I don't think anything has happened yet but I think he is on a slippery slope if he has come home that drunk twice in one week, then anything can happen.

When are you getting your night out in return since he has had two in a week and you had to stay home to look after your child?

You need to have a serious chat with him.

maddierthan

This is the thing too. The relationship has become pretty one-sided (at least that's how I perceive it).

He gets to focus on work and his night outs because I run the household (along with my full time job)- the bills, the childcare, the social aspect of life etc. I organise it all. I think he has become complacent. He has a PA at home to run the day to day and now he's looking for a thrill outside the relationship.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt because up until now I thought we had a good relationship, but this has made me think otherwise

evolvingtipperary101

Just have to talk it out. Get an answer to every question you have until your satisfied and go from there.

I do think it's plausible that you'd text someone after a night out if you've been out with them, male or female. Did he text the male person too? But the male friend might not be a texter.

No other way around it than to discuss it out. You probably know him better than he does himself. Your gut is probably right on this but let him talk for himself.

One more thing, I do think a text is a long way away from cheating... a long way.

YellowLead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910699#Comment_121910699

This isn’t right. It would be different if you were at home full time, but when you’re both working full time running the household should be 50/50. You need to talk to him - communication is everything and it’s clearly broken down on both sides.

skallywag

To add some counter balance, I very often text a colleague at work after a few, we have some interests in common etc. which I do not have with my partner. She has also been to our place a fair few times. It is no issue at all for my partner. I have no interest whatsoever in this person in any romantic way, nor would I assume has she in me.

I certainly do not agree with this idea that texting someone with drink on board can only mean one thing. It probably speaks more about the person making such a comment than anything else.

OP, I believe you are being quite inconsistent here. You write that 'He gets to focus on work and his night outs because I run the household', while you yourself mention in your opening post that nights out are a rarity for him. Your statement that 'he's looking for a thrill outside the relationship' also sounds like you have made your mind up already on his intentions here. Based on what you have presented in the thread so far I certainly cannot see how you are coming to this conclusion.

kowloonkev

OP, were there previous texts between the two of them on his phone?

If 'Hi' was the first text and no texts from previous days/times then that would be suspicious.

maddierthan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911816#Comment_121911816

I meant that nights out for us as a couple are a rarity. We don't have family help so I can count on one hand the amount on nights we've been out together since our child was born. Any nights we have been out, I organised them.

maddierthan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911856#Comment_121911856

That's the thing. There were no other messages between them, just the Hi from my husband.

They don't work on the same team, just ended up "hanging out" on a work night out last week.

They have no work projects together, no common interests that they would know of.

It's all pretty damning 😞

Iseedeadpixels

He could just be enjoying the attention she's giving him but you need to sit down with him and ask him.

YellowLead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911816#Comment_121911816

But they were different nights out for him - it wasn’t the night of the work thing that he texted the colleague it was Patrick’s day when he was out with friends. So totally different than texting a colleague to see if they got home okay. It means he was thinking of her separately. Just hi didn’t include any question…he was testing the waters.

OP have a chat to him. The fact that you both work full time but you do all the household stuff is a huge issue - it sounds like he is taking you for granted on ALL fronts.

XsApollo

If his phone is always about and not protected then I doubt you have anything to worry about, being drunk can make people do stupid things, the fact he passed out halfway through the text more than likely means he was well on it.

if he was up to something or hiding something he wouldn’t be as liberal with his phone.

To be quite frank it seems to me he has an issue with alcoholism, this is a terrible burden for you bringing up a young child. It won’t change either unless he wants it to change and the chances of that happening any tIme soon are minimal. It tends to get worse over time as rock bottom is reached. You’ve more chance of winning the lottery. Alcoholics will socialise with anyone who will drink with them, and even inhibitions are lowered they are likely to do anything, including having sex with any willing party. This is the horrible reality of the disease.

maddierthan

So I just spoke with him.

He has apologised for the text and says he just wanted the thrill. They'd been flirting on the night out and so he sent the text.

He feels that it's partly my fault because I've been short with him for the past few weeks.

I told him I'd been short because work is crazy at the moment, I'm looking after everything at home and that a bit of thoughtfulness from him would have gone a long way.

He says he's sorry but he's now being silly about the whole thing, like I'm not owning up to my fair share.

He doesn't realise the damage he's done to the foundations of our relationship. He thinks it's just a text and is completely blind to the fact that he's f*cked up all the trust we built up over the years.

Hannibal_Smith

He has apologised for the text and says he just wanted the thrill. They'd been flirting on the night out and so he sent the text.

Admitting to flirting with someone on a night out and then trying to follow it up with a cheeky text a few nights later is pretty bad.

I'd be more worried about the feeble attempt to make his flirting your fault tbh. If he had issues in the marriage, the thing to do is bring those issues up with the other person in the marriage. You don't go flirting and texting someone else and then blame it all on your spouse.

If it started and ended with a cheeky flirt and a stupid text, at least that's something. But I'd be wondering, if you hadn't seen the text where would things have ended.

Although his actions are not your fault, he has issues with the marriage too and although he dealt with it fairly badly if you want to get passed this, then a conversation (not a blame game) between the two of you where you both get to air your issues might be an idea.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912183#Comment_121912183

He's trying to gaslight you, it's not your fault at all.

Ezeoul

Wait. Stop right there.

He feels that it's partly my fault because I've been short with him for the past few weeks.

He is attempting to shift the blame on to you for his reaching out to flirt with another woman?

NO NO NO.

Knock this on the head, right now.

If he feels you were being short with him, he should have talked to you about it to find out what was wrong. Not gone out and got drunk and flirted with a colleague, and now wants to blame you for that.

You are NOT responsible for what he did, and do not even entertain that.

A further, very serious discussion needs to be had.

YellowLead

He needs to take on his half of the household management/work and that’s the bottom line. If that’s not possible, then he needs to pay for cleaners etc.

Male a list of everything you are currently doing (grocery shopping, meal planning, cooking dinner, dropping kids to school, signing their homework, bringing them to swimming or whatever, doing laundry and uniforms) just so he sees the enormity of it in front of his face, and ask him which ones he is going to take on.

JeffKenna

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912183#Comment_121912183

That's gaslighting. Pretty bad form to not come out and admit he's in the wrong. At least you can work from there. Putting the blame for his actions on you is just totally wrong. Some accountability is needed here.

maddierthan

It's just mad to me to be here asking the internet for advice on my relationship. Last week I would not have been able to fathom this.

I'm so deflated by it all. I'm just crushed.

I'm also very glad to hear that I'm not alone in thinking that he's gaslighting me.

Squatman

immature of the husband no doubt. on a more human level, you need to leave work at work. it should not be impacting your personal life to the extent where your husband feels isolated, or where you are burning out.

NB I am in no way drawing any conclusion or reference that item A led to Item B. I'm sure I will be accused of it thou, so rest assured it will fall on deaf ears.

maddierthan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912543#Comment_121912543

It's funny because I actually do leave work at work. I'm just getting by at work because a lot of my headspace is taken up with family and household tasks.

I was once very ambitious but something had to give.

If my husband feels isolated, and that's entirely possible, he should communicate that with me. I can't be everything to everyone and a psychic to boot

You said at the start "My husband and I (both early 40s) have always had what I thought was a good relationship", if you hadn't said this to be honest I would have assumed from subsequent posts you were a pair of hormonal teenagers. A bit of maturity here on both sides would go a long way.

Does he do this often, go out in the evening and come home drunk - if so, then as others have said that's what I would be worried about first. If he doesn't do this as a rule, then has something happened recently (that you might not know about) to dent his confidence and make him start to behave like this - if so, then thats what you need to sort. imo the texts are a symptom, not the problem.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912183#Comment_121912183

I’m sorry but I think you may be overreacting.

It’s open to interpretation. When people get married and have kids, they forego the carefree lifestyle they may have once had.

It may be that your husband just enjoyed his night out, flirted a little bit and then tried to repeat the experience a few nights later.

Married people (not just men) enjoy a bit of a blowout every now and again. Granted, he probably shouldn’t have texted the person but, in isolation, it’s not a life changing decision, unless you make it one. So he finds another woman attractive? The day he stops doing so is the real day you have to worry about.

Only you know what he’s like on a continuous basis but, a bit of perspective, on the evidence you’ve presented here, I don’t think he’s yet reached the status of alcoholic philanderer.

I’d agree he should be doing much more around the house but perhaps this is something you should discuss with him rather than randomers on the internet.

It might also help if you had more fun together. It sounds like your relationship is becoming more adversarial and that can be difficult to retreat from.

maddierthan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912930#Comment_121912930

I guess I have high standards when it comes to loyalty. Having said that I'm not expecting anything I wouldn't expect of myself.

I have discussed him doing more around the house. It's a fairly frequent occurrence. But also this is a discussion forum, where people request outside opinions, so that's what I'm doing here.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913036#Comment_121913036

Yeah I get that but bear it mind, it’s easy for others to dole out textbook advice. You have to live with the guy.

Look, he fessed up and you’ve given him a dressing down which he probably deserves but maybe he’s just stretching for excuses by trying to blame you. It’s ridiculous and he probably knows that but he’s grasping at straws here.

And don’t conflate this issue with the housework. Sure, he should be pulling his weight but don’t make it part of a punishment.

For your own sake, think about how it’s perceived. The women in pubs are great craic and make him feel great. The woman at home forces him to iron and hoover. You can see where this will lead to. If you think it’ll lead to a situation where he prefers to spend time at home with you…..

While it would be nice to think we all live on Walton’s Mountain (younger people, please google), the reality is that men and women remain attracted after marriage to people other than their spouses. Alcohol can reduce the natural tendency to stay at arms length so maybe the advice is to go out, have a drink but not get slaughtered.

But 30 minutes with a hoover would never make a man want less drink.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913036#Comment_121913036

Be careful with the advice on here. People tend to project their own frustrations on your relationship on very scant evidence or by taking something you said out of context/to an extreme. At this point, you’re best talking to friends to get advice and talking to your husband to sort out any issues.

Hannibal_Smith

@Ted222 and @DeanAustin please bear in mind this is Personal Issues Forum. The whole point of the forum is to provide a place where posters can come and seek advice on an issue that is troubling them.

@maddierthan you are welcome to continue seeking advice if you feel its helps.

HS

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912183#Comment_121912183

A problem with him leveling "blame" against you is you are less likely to - how did you put it - own up to your fair share. If he wants you to own up to this stuff then he is going exactly the wrong way about it.

I subscribe to the notion of "extreme ownership". Taking ownership of choices you make or do not make. His choice to pursue on any level this other woman is entirely 100% his choice. Now certain behaviors of yours might have factored into that decision, sure. But the decision is still 100% his. You can not be blamed for it. He needs to take 100% ownership that this decision was 100% his.

You can similarly take ownership of your behaviors that have been negatively impacting your relationship. Now you have been made aware that certain behaviors of yours might be having negative outcomes, you can acknowledge that, own it, explore it, and mediate it.

But where he is shooting himself in the foot by taking things that factored into his decision - and casting them in the light that you are to "blame" for his decision when you are not - he is creating a dynamic where you are now less likely to do that. Why? Because he has now set it that any acknowledgement you make about your behaviors might now validate his claim that you are part to "blame" here. He wants you to acknowledge things you have been doing that is hurtful to him and your relationship - but he has demanded this in a way that makes it the least likely you are going to do so.

It sounds like there are several things you both can take ownership of, as individuals and as a couple. But as long as acknowledgement of any of those things validates some narrative of accepting blame for something the other has done or failed to do - it is much less likely to happen. There is a world of difference between acknowledging the actions of others were factors in our bad decisions and actions, and blaming those others for our chosen decisions and actions. It is very rare in my experience that the latter is ever a good or right thing to do.

But were I in your position now when this conversation next comes up again I would essentially say in your own words to him that "Ok I acknowledge the criticisms you have made about me, I am going to own them and explore them alone and with your support to see where I can improve, but this acknowledgement of where and how I can improve myself is in no way acceptance of blame for decisions you have made, and failures that you too now have to take similar ownership of. I acknowledge out relationship, like every relationship, needs work and improvement. But all relationships hit turmoil at some point and any decision you make during that period of turmoil is 100% wholly and entirely on you. No one can be blamed, but you."

maddierthan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915640#Comment_121915640

Thank you so much for your reply - it comes at exactly the right time.

I've been thinking about how we can move forward with my husband. He has decided to not talk to me which is making things ridiculously awkward. And I want to talk about this but I don't want to accept the blame for his actions.

Your suggestion makes so much sense to me. I do see the areas that I can improve in, and I do want to work on those, but I do want his acknowledgement that he fecked up massively.

I will use your advice to get things moving hopefully. Your timing is perfect! Thank you!!

Oscar_Madison

For me the “flirting” is a symptom of something not going well within the relationship - whilst it’s difficult right now OP, there’s huge hope here to rescue things before it goes beyond flirting, assuming that it hasn’t already done so.

An honest conversation around how he feels about you and his relationship with you as well as for you to be honest with him, is probably a good first step.

What comes out of that conversation will influence the way forward. I wouldn’t rule out a bit of counselling if both of you were agreeable to it.

RoboRat

My 2 cents. Sounds like he made an absolute arse of himself. He was flirting and after another skinful of drinks, he decided to resurrect the thread of the previous night. Now he feels like an arse and is trying to deflect rather than owning that he was in the wrong. Many people find this easier than self-reflection and hate to admit they are at fault.

I don't think you have any real concerns as you mentioned he always leaves his phone around. This is not the sign of a serial cheater. It also suggests that he doesn't have a secret phone as he would have used that.

I think a frank and honest conversation about why he did this, and if he thought it would go anywhere. Was it because of the attention? When couples are together for a long time, they tend to slip into a habit and lose what brought them together. Perhaps it's as simple as paying more attention to each other or a compliment now and then.

The drinking sounds like a problem though.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915688#Comment_121915688

So now he is punishing you with passive aggressive silence to punish you for pulling him up for his fcuk up?

God bless your patience, OP.

Keep your resolve and remember you didn't do anything wrong here.

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915705#Comment_121915705

I tend to disagree with this. Some people crave attention... too much attention. They need to be validated and if someone flirts with them, they feel this is validation that they 'still have it'.

Most of the time it stems from a deeper psychological issue that could have nothing to do with the actual relationship - quite possibly it's something from childhood that they hide or may not even know exists, but rears its head when a lot of alcohol is consumed. It's the same reason people are too loud, troll strangers online, etc.

marilynrr

TBH I would massively struggle to get past this.

A few weeks of you being short with him and he felt entitled to seek some excitement elsewhere? Even if it was just flirting it's so disrespectful to you and your marriage.

And even worse again is the fact that you were only that way because he's not pulling his weight at home.

If the same resentments build up are you supposed to just put on a big fake smile and treat him like a God so that he doesn't feel the need to get a thrill elsewhere?

And now he's not talking to you? Is he prone to giving you the silent treatment?

maddierthan

He only ever really does the silent treatment when he knows he's in the wrong, so it fits exactly what Roborat said.

I think it's easier for him to get on his high horse of indignation than actually admit he's done anything wrong.

I'm honestly struggling to get past it but I'm willing to swallow my pride for the sake of the marriage. I'm trying to get some time with him - he's very busy with work (or at least it's giving him an excuse to bury himself in the office).

I've text him to see when he's taking lunch so we can talk but no answer as yet.

Unbeknownst to him I've contacted a relationship counsellor who will hopefully have some availability after Easter. I think we need an outsider to help with communicating because if he keeps giving me the silent treatment, even after he's done wrong, we'll never get anywhere. Suddenly it's all very clear how quickly a relationship can break down irreparably

TheChizler

You're probably not planning to do this but definitely don't spring an appointment with a counsellor on him, both parties need to want counselling for it to be any good. By all means approach it like "I would like to get some couples counselling, I've read good things about so and so". Unless it's just for yourself.