Enterprise replacement and Connolly station based trains generally.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122087305#Comment_122087305

but hey, in a couple of years they'll just turn them off because they're faulty like every previous PIS they've had.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122086330#Comment_122086330

Who worked on the new Dart ones? These new units look very similar. Fitted by Spanish lads, but not sure if they are from Caf.
At least they’ll address the issue with speakers that don’t work on the 29s. Drivers make announcements, but they often don't get heard due to faulty speakers.

dowlingm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080022#Comment_122080022

interesting take. GE sold their locomotive division to Wabtec, and no passenger locomotive is currently being offered in North America from their stable of products or powered by them. Similarly, Tier 4 was a blow to EMD since the 710 couldn’t manage it, so they offered the F125 with their sister company Caterpillar’s engine and only one agency bought it (and didn’t have a fun time introducing it).

Siemens are making money hand over fist because as far as US made new build diesel passenger locomotives go, they are the only game in town.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122111551#Comment_122111551

I believe physical Locomotive Safety mechanisms on US trains are better than in the EU. I know Siemens did have to do a lot of work on ACS-64 to get it to comply with US Safety standards.

Interesting times, Siemens has a monopoly on a lucrative yet comparatively stagnant passenger train market.

dowlingm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136359#Comment_122136359

stagnant for a while but actually having a small renaissance because decades of underinvestment are coming home to roost while demand is soaring, for varying reasons. Whole fleets of trains - power and coaches - have been retained a decade or three past their sell-by and now Amtrak, CTDOT, Ontario Northland, VIA Rail Canada and others are all being obliged to replace rolling stock as the likes of Brightline are desperate to expand

The problem is that it has perhaps come a little too late for companies like CAF, Brookville, Kawasaki to get a piece of. While Siemens has the cash flow to open a new facility in South Carolina, Nippon Sharyo in Illinois and Talgo in Wisconsin are dead and gone, and Alstom can’t build “Buy America” federally funded orders from Canadian plants to any useful extent.

as for the safety thing - there’s strong opinion on that on both sides over here and you are seeing some Euro-spec DMUs and what not show up here under Alternate FRA rules. The legacy FRA Tier 1 rules put a big emphasis on sheer buff strength rather than crash energy management which puts manufacturers in a cleft between axle weight and passing compression tests - and that was what brought down Nippon Sharyo

Red Alert

The new PIS from pictures looks like a right bodge job on the 29s. The exterior displays are smaller, and can show less text than the old ones. The original interior scrolling LEDs were quite legible… the new ones look amateurish. No doubt Irish rail will soon use them to remind us again to Seachainn an Bhearna continuously. I wonder if they couldn’t just have replaced the head-end for the system using the existing displays - most use relatively standard communication protocols.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122159158#Comment_122159158

New system also replaces the PA system, so announcements will actually work. And new CCTV system too. Alarms triggered in the carriage will then display the associated camera to the driver.

Jem72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080094#Comment_122080094

I had to endure one of these to Edgeworthstown from Drumcondra yesterday evening. Can't really see the point in fitting the new PIS. The external displays are a lot smaller and it still doesn't actually work. It started announcing "This is the last stop" at Mullingar. It also spent at least half the time displaying "Mind the Gap" or an Irish Rail logo. Complete waste of money.

The old system actually gave more information as it used to announce every stop which while useless to regular passengers was very useful to those unfamiliar with the train.

goingnowhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122160110#Comment_122160110

They always did on the 29k, that was spec from factory in 2003…

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312896#Comment_122312896

New one still announces each stop.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313118#Comment_122313118

Sure they did. 🤣

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312896#Comment_122312896

I was thinking this myself recently. The original 29k PIS was very unreliable for the first few years but it seems to be solid now.

Glaceon

I was on a Newry-bound 29k last Friday with the new PIS. It was working fine up until a few minutes before arriving into Drogheda, where it blurted out Tara Street and Connolly as the next stops. It then reverted to an Irish Rail logo for the remainder of the time I was on it. This was the sort of thing I remembered the old system doing in its early days, as well as the internal LED screens printing their messages backwards!

I also noticed that the new system now uses the Irish "An tIúr" on the displays, but the announcements still just say Newry.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122544872#Comment_122544872

The new system doesn’t recognise where it is when it reboots. It’ll pick up at the start of the route again, until the driver corrects it.

Beta Ray Bill

Yesterday, as result of the signaling issue, my DART left Connolly at the exact same time as the Enterprise.

I got a good look at the West Facing side of the coaches… They are VERY beaten up looking. There's big dents on all the Doors. There's a lot of corrosion and the outside is filthy.

I think Irish Rail/NIR have given up on those coaches.

Still no takers on the tender for a replacement as far as I can see.

Beta Ray Bill

Newly refurbed generator car at Connolly station this morning… I guess they're going to keep the existing rolling stock a bit longer.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635730#Comment_122635730

I saw that this morning. The Enterprise coach I was on was in rag order. Graffiti on one side, several of the reservation displays were physically broken or not working, and one of the lighting panels at the windows was lifted out. NIR do the maintenance of these coaches, I think questions need to be asked.

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122635730#Comment_122635730

Even if they want to get rid of the current sets now I don't think they have the set to replace them. At minimum I think they need to wait for the new order, and I can't imagine they would let vehicles rot for multiple years before the new ones can arrive.

I will say I am interested to see what will get picked. Especially to see if they decide to stay with Locos or if they change to DMU/EMU.

Beta Ray Bill

Not sure if thats the refurbed one.

Looks a bit battered for a refurb...

A1ACo

On a side note, if the Stadler 756 Tri-mode mentioned above was used by IE (or in its operation with Transport for Wales), I wonder if the narrow passage in the mid train power car would end up being closed off to passengers - as it looks like a bit of an anti-social gauntlet dodgy laneway potential. Could be useful maybe for misc. storage, e.g. food cart, bins, parcels?

A1ACo

Was there any time-frame ever indicated on when a tender winner would be decided and announced?…

(If only 'Apple' made trains too, Ireland Inc. might have been able to come to some quick arrangement! 😀).

goingnowhere

Down to 2 bidders for final offers

OisinCooke

I didn’t know that bidding had begun for the contract…! Any word who they are? Or when we’ll have an official announcement on who’s building the trains? Is it fair to say that they’re probably on schedule at this stage by the looks of things then?

A1ACo

In my head, I think the practical approach would be for the chosen sets to be a derivative of something already in-fleet, and maybe locomotive related in some respect… but in my heart, I'd prefer them to be passive-tilting, Shinkansen light!

Whatever is chosen though, I hope the reason(s) are obvious - and good.

It could also be of course, that the project could end up being cancelled for now… depending on the tenders, and changing priorities etc.

A1ACo

With my mini-Shinkansen quip above I was not actually specifically thinking of the Hitachi A-trains they are so fond of using across the water - but in saying that that company has a range of various level tilting trains - including EMU and DMU… (including in Australia) in its 885 and 8000 series, and lots of tilting trains by varied manufacturers etc. in Japan… Tilting trains for DMUs and EMUs seem also to be used in Japan even for 'Limited Express' and commuter lines - with the below odd DMU and EMU sister series pairing quite odd!

KiHa 201 series - Wikipedia

What I did not realize though, was the apparent width disparity in the UK's original Javelin 395, at 2.81m (same as the Enterprise somewhat narrow for Irish Rail width), vs. the narrow 2.7m width it seems for the rest of the 800 IEP series in the UK…

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122675017#Comment_122675017

Genuinely curious, are there options with tilting capabilities that meets the requirments of the tender? In general it seems most commuter or regional sets won't meet the speed requirements (165-180kmh?) while many IC or HS sets are too long for our railways and/or don't have the traction options we need, so finding one that also has tilting capabilities might be quite difficult.

A1ACo

I haven't come across any Tri-mode, tilting trains. However, the Renfe Class 703/ Talgo 250 appears very close to possibly fitting the tender spec.s except for only not including batteries (as produced in 2012).

Renfe Class 730 - Wikipedia

Other than above, and if looking at tilting options - any of the Talgo different series coaches, paired with whatever locomotive/ power car(s) you like (including from Talgo), could potentially fit the bill, but again haven't seen any mention of said as dual mode, or with batteries.

Otherwise, tilting trains wise (with potential for tri-mode versions?) there is the UK Class 221 Super Voyager (narrow at 2.73m width) that is a 200kph/ 125mph Diesel, tilting DMU, and the RegioSwinger but thats only 160kph/100mph, tilting DMU - both from former Bombardier, and in Australian the EDi Rail Diesel, tilting push-pull locomotive also 160kph/100mph (and with a sister but Electric and seems MU configuration, tilting version), and the not so successful German ICE-TD Diesel, tilting DMU - all would not be too far off a tilting train version of the Enterprise tender requirements, and assuming if already Diesels, that EMU function would be possible to add (all of the above also had EMU versions too)… and then batteries.

But, Tri-mode design, and adding tilting capability… if useful (and without much body narrowing) would be even more of a tall order (especially 'active' tilting)… but it is nice to dream (and i'd consider dropping the batteries for now and swapping for tilting capability).

The Hitachi Italian 'Blues' Tri-mode train already in service recently could also possibly have the Hitachi tilting system added to it I suppose (if room), or Talgo pendular system (located between coaches), but I haven't come across too much about the Blue Train in performance terms.

A1ACo

RE above - recent Italian Blues Tri-mode train (not a tilting train).

Hitachi Blues - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PlatformNine

Might be a stupid question, but I have seen a handful of news articles from earlier this year saying that the procurement for the Enterprise fleet should be complete by the end of this year. But even if that is true, would that also be when we find out who won and what sets IE will be ordering? Or could we still have to wait?

LXFlyer

I think you can be pretty sure that whenever a replacement is decided and a tender awarded, we will hear about it.