Hybrid or diesel

arsebiscuits82

Quick one, getting a new company car and have been told to go and start looking.

Not long in the job but from talking to others will average around 60k-70k kms per year. Currently at 20k km since January.

The car will double up as a family car so thinking estate due to the amount of stuff I carry during the week and for family trips. Have 3 kids 9,8 and 6.

Currently in a 1.6 superb saloon great car but not much in the way of power

I know there is a new superb coming out but also like the arteon shooting brake and the kodiaq and the a6 avant.

Would I hybrid suit the mileage, it’s mostly motorway and n roads?

any others to consider? Not worried about bik as I do big miles so will always be in the lower bracket of corresponding emission value.

thanks

Doe Tiden

Kind of similar myself here, I’m leaning towards diesel tbh, if the fast chargers were cheaper it might be worth it but I’m not sure if it really is,

gym_imposter

Diesel, hybrid are pointless

sniperman

diesel for me

bazz26

If your doing that sort of high mileage daily and annually then I think diesel is a no brainer. I cannot see a hybrid giving you a range of up to 1000 km on a tank of fuel. Also VAT cannot claimed back on petrol, only on diesel.

kirving

Make sure to select the option of a large fuel tank if it exists - some cars have (or certainly had) smaller fuel tanks as the default option so that when they were tested for emissions with the tank half full, it would give a saving of a few kilograms and could knock it into the lower tax bracket. Adding the larger tank (if it's an option) is normally free.

What's your budget?

Clo-Clo

Get a diesel if you can

Flinty997

Diesel. Shouldn't have to ask.

vinniem

Driving full EV over 2 years, never looked back. But if had to go back to ICE would be diesel 100%!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121904767#Comment_121904767

I think it should depend on your journey type. My short journeys don't suit diesel. Whereas the OP suits a diesel 100% with a very large tank.

vinniem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121904847#Comment_121904847

Agreed

XsApollo

That sort of mileage 100% diesel.

if you want a diesel with a bit of power it will have to be a , VAG , Merc, BMW , Any of these in wagon form are nice.

Aerteon, e-class , 5 series , A6.

1st extra that should be on your list is being an Automatic. you will never look back.

id go take them all for a spin, an E-Class Merc would be the most comfortable motorway muncher there.

sundodger5

Plug in hybrid will be cheaper on BIK but will cost more to purchase. I did the math when i changed car in August 2022. I would only be saving about 20 quid a month from my take home and have to put up with the shorter time between fills due to smaller fuel tank. Diesel for less drama...

Flinty997

Phev would (IMO) only make sense if you are going to use the electric only range a lot. Like you drive locally on electric 90% of the time but then do a regular long trip but less often. Basically not what the OP is doing.

You could make a case for an EV if you had available cheap charging for the majority of your driving. Cant see that for the OP either. Or want to save on fuel. But probably aren't paying for the fuel anyway, so why bother.

A diesel with 1000km or so of range. It's exactly what the superb is best at. Maybe an Audi. Probably the Superb is the more spacious car. Especially in the rear seats for 3 kids. With 3 kids the other option would be a SUV/MPV. Which if was mainly a family car might be a better choice. But for work, the Superb is the better choice.

arsebiscuits82

Thanks folks, yeah was half thinking on the bik with the hybrid but the more I think of it diesel suits way better.

one of the guys has an a6 hybrid and is constantly putting petrol into it.

I don’t think the budget goes to an a6 merc or bmw so vw or Skoda I think.

current car is an auto, driving the wife’s manual today for the first time in months, safe to say I’ll never buy a manual again!

djan

Škoda superb will be best value with plenty of space for the kids and if you spec it high with things like adaptive suspension, adaptive cruise and the 180 or 200 bhp 2L diesels it will be much better than a base spec A6 or 5series as youel mentioned they may not be in budget.

monseiur

Audi A6 Avant (Diesel of course) is the car for you. It ticks all the boxes.

OP,what's your budget? A6 avant is a fantastic car. Performance, comfort, reliability, road presence.

Can your budget stretch that far? If you state the budget it's easier to suggest good options.

At 50k+ miles per year, I'd be in nothing but an automatic diesel big comfy car

goochy

Some mileage you will have to drive car into gro

goochy

Ground

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909518#Comment_121909518

It's a company car according to the OP, so mileage shouldn't matter as most will be changed at 3 years.

It's a nice problem to have

arsebiscuits82

I’ll check on the budget but around the 55-60k mark I think. I’d love an A6 but can’t see that happening even with an ex demo model.

agreed it’s a nice problem to have, I’ll be dreading retirement in a few years

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910156#Comment_121910156

I've just had a quick look at new A6 prices and I'd bet there's movement on price available on them. I can't see them selling at what they are asking for, try a few places and you may get lucky.

Failing that id just get the very best example of a Skoda superb or Arteon that you can. Id have them over the equivalent SUV from Skoda/VW. I have spent a bit of time in VW dealership recently and the Arteon was the nicest machine in there by a distance.

They'll be prob nicer than the cheapest A6 which seems to be all you'll get near.

goochy

Doing that mileage you will be glad to retire in a few years

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058341461/hybrid-or-diesel

I have been trying to figure the phev out fuel wise,

70000km = 270 km per working day.

new skoda Superb Combi phev,https://www.skoda-auto.com/models/range/superb-combi#iV no idea on price, its new.

25kwh battery, I don't know the usable assume around 20kwh, 100km range, I would believe its entirely possible to get 100km from it,

petrol consumption is difficult to estimate, https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/skoda/octavia-2013/15-tsi-150 gives a 1.5 l petrol as 44 mpg or 6.4l/100km, say 7 l/100mpg or 40 mpg,

So 100km = 3.08 euro (22 kwh @0.14 plus 10% charging loss) and 170km @ 20.60 euro (7 x 1.73 x 170km) =23.70 euro for the phev.

the 2l tdi is 56mpg or 5 l/100km x 270km = 23.50 euro

50 cent per working day in favour of the diesel version.

I have no idea of your daily commutes or BIK, I would think there is room in favour of the phev, I don't know if you go back to the office for 3 hours and head out again with a fully charged 100 km or what, charging out and about would need to be under 40 cents to break even with the diesel its about 55 cents atm, day units would @ 29 cent would save around 2.30 euro per 100 km and a saving of 5.50 on night rate.

a 45 litre tank would last only 3.5 days doing 270km.

kirving

It's very unlikely too be a set 270km/day though. If it was, then an EV would make sense.

Having had PHEV you do need to be mindful of how you drive to maximise range. Obviously everyone should be driving in that relaxed manner the whole time, but when it's your day job it's extremely tiring to be trying to anticipate traffic even before the driver in front of you does, so as not to ever brake too hard and lose regen, or accelerate just a little to hard and have the engine kick in.

And lets be honest, who cares when it's someone else footing the fuel bill. Just hop in the car, stick on active cruise and let it brake if it needs to.

galwaytt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910630#Comment_121910630

100km on electric ? Don't think so : some online reviews have it at about 60km.

OP - diesel, end of. Nothing else is 'there', just yet.........in 3 years time when you're asking again, might be a whole new ballgame.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910686#Comment_121910686

I know its unlikely, its an average, I would suggest he look into his driving a little bit more as it stands there is nothing between a diesel and that phev in fuel costs, with a bigger battery phev, achieving an average of 100 km would be easier than minding a 6 kwh battery phev.

I don't know how many cars in the fleet nor how much of a saving that could be achieved, 1 car saving a 1000 euro is 10000 after 10 years, 10 cars a 100k, it adds up.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913645#Comment_121913645

link?

Maybe your mixing it up with the older version and its stated 60 km range, the newer version has the same size battery as the nissan leaf which done 95 km highway in cold weather.

I would not dismiss the car without some further investigation.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913776#Comment_121913776

I'm a big fan of PHEV over ICE (given the minimal extra cost to buy, and it suited me), and I'm currently in the market for a BEV

But to achieve any advertised range takes a lot of care in any EV - which just isn't comfortable to do when it's your day job - and someone else is paying.

I'm no BIK expert, but at that milage I understand the difference is negligible anyway.

XsApollo

Doing that much mileage , the last thing you want be doing every on top of it would be , minding a short range battery, I imagine long days, and waiting for something to charge would do my nut in.

An Aerteon , with a dsg, 150 or 200bhp don’t think it would matter at speed which one.

nice seats, adaptive cruise, auto lights, nice sound system,. Relax and chill.

Flinty997

Biggest tank of diesel. End of.

galwaytt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913794#Comment_121913794

Even at 60kms, for me it would be ideal : but I'm doing 10k kms a year. The other factor is how much time you're prepared to spend charging it, especially if you're doing so in a work day.

Btw, I thought the Arteon was discontinued, or just about to be ?

I'd buy a run-out model Skoda diesel tbh - VRS, Superb etc.

davidivad

New VW Tiguan basically is the same as the superb. Again with the 25kw battery and the WLTP is 129km in some versions (picture below is from VW Germany site), therefore it should be capable of getting 100km in real life. New Superb looks nice and I might get it myself, Tiguan is similar but I prefer the superb. There is a hybrid golf coming our at the end of the year also with the 100+ electric range. Personally I think it's a game changer, most journeys for most people will be electric only and then if you want to go further afield, you have the petrol to enable you to do so.

New Tiguan only available in diesel so far in Ireland, however of the OP, you need to realise the boot space in these hybrids is smaller as the battery takes up a chunk of the space, so it mightn't suit with family.

Flinty997

That will make the superb boot just huge instead of enormous.

Doing 70k pa I don't think most journeys will be electric only. Rather the opposite.

kincaid

Diesel for sure,

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121904767#Comment_121904767

Yeah I'm on my 3rd EV, depreciation is massive, never again and never again will I buy a car on PCP......

Range and public chargers or lack of remain huge issues.

I drive VW id3 tour 5, infotainment and ergonomics are junk, can't beat manual controls and buttons ! but a lot of car manufacturers are using screens to control so many functions. I'll never buy such a car again.

If I were to change tomorrow I'd buy a 2nd hand diesel and run it on HVO100 and it would probably be far greener than any EV by the time you get all the minerals and ship to China and we all know how they care for the environment in China !

vinniem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939838#Comment_121939838

I don't get why you're on your 3rd EV if you don't like them or if they don't suit your needs? I get you have an outlander diesel also, that was my last car and loved it too. But have a Kia Niro now and it's a fantastic car, no issue with charging and travel to Derry many times a month. I suppose EVs not for everyone, but I'm extremely happy with my decision to make the leap

arsebiscuits82

Update on this, getting an arteon shooting brake r line or arteon saloon r line depending on what’s out there.

Hopefully the estate.

just in my current car here, got it serviced in Feb, and will be due again in around 3 weeks. Bik certainly not an issue!

Flinty997

Enjoy. Nice motor.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939984#Comment_121939984

Once I took off the rose tinted glasses and figure out that battery production is causing more harm than good I kind of took the edge off it for me I have to say. Politicians pontificating as if Ireland moves 100% to EV we'll save the planet as if anything we do one way or the other will have any impact lol.

Yes this is my last EV until I can decide what to do with it in October.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941232#Comment_121941232

Guess you won't be using anything with batteries then. Phone, computers, lead-acid batteries and alternatives.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941304#Comment_121941304

Probably not no more than most people that want need them but trying to make out EV is some planet saving technology is false.

rob316

A6 Avant or Arteon estate. Don't bother with hybrid

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058341461/hybrid-or-diesel

Definitely diesel with that mileage, one with decent power.

Estates are a dying breed, if you can find one they are far more practical than crossovers which are usually taller heavier hatches.

I wouldn't mind an Estate myself, herself has an outlander, grand and all but it's a barge and hates bends but good motorway cruiser. Maybe the newer ones are better.

pah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941809#Comment_121941809

I think that over the lifetime of the vehicle if you can charge at home with a large portion of it being solar it is probably the greenest option overall, especially newer cobalt free EV's.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121951522#Comment_121951522

Yeah, I heard Eamon ryan on this morning with his burning planet statement telling us that electric cars are a big part of the solution however this is fine but he ignores the environmental issues such as the amount of fresh water needed for lithium production, around 2 million litres for a tonne of lithium, a tonne is enough for 100 electric cars. The contamination to wells, rivers and stream, is this acceptable for the sake of Co2 ? bearing in mining it takes time for an EV to break even on Co2 but is it just Co2 the greens and IPCC care about ?

There's also the fact we're paying so much for carbon tax which seems to be far more than our contribution to so called anthropogenic warming would suggest we should pay given our tiny size but the Government stance, " Ireland will lead the fight against climate change" no matter the cost to the Irish people. They are beyond insane!

A company wanted to mine the lithium from Mount Leinster area, there was local opposition, it got canned, but why doesn't mr ryan bring them back and tell them they can mine all the lithium the want ? why can't we tolerate the destruction on our own door step but it's ok for other countries to endure it ?

electricus

I’m not making excuses for or saying lithium mining shouldn’t be cleaned up, but some context:

about 2000 litres of water is required to make the cotton for a pair of jocks ( based on 10,000l per Kg)

Oil production has been polluting water and air for years, I can only guess at the actual numbers and environmental impact.

Apologies for going off topic again, but seeing this stuff repeated in multiple threads.

Flinty997

Just spamming every thread with the same stuff over and over it at this point.

See Nobbys done a review of another diesel.

https://youtu.be/9vnlYNho5G0?si=4kyNqlyaFI8py6UY

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121951760#Comment_121951760

Is cotton production toxic like lithium ? the process of mining lithium contaminates water because it's toxic.

We have industry that contaminates but the issue here is that why are politicians/IPCC promoting electric car battery production ignoring the other environmental issues ?

As I said earlier. if it's so good why not exploit the lithium around Mount Leinster ?

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953293#Comment_121953293

Fertiliser, herbicides, and pesticides during cultivation followed by bleaching and treatment of the cotton is all quite polluting. Not as bad as extracting lithium , but oil and fossil fuel extraction is worse again - then we burn it and mine more. EV Lithium batteries on the other hand can be reused for a very long time making it the preferred option.

There are also some alternatives to lithium ion batteries (based on sodium, aluminium, etc.) close to being viable for EV use. Even with them, some will still prefer burning oil to move around.

Hopefully if lithium ore from Mt. Leinster is processed here it will be done in an environmentally safe and sustainable manner, no reason why it couldn’t aside from cost. In reality, any ore extracted will be exported unprocessed.

Anyway, this off topic stuff doesn’t really help answer the OP question. The answer to that should also be based on efficiency and overall cost.