Ireland - now considered one of most vulnerable countries in the EU (defense wise)

Downlinz

This is entirely a US and UK problem rather than an Irish one.

The only reason Russia would enter Irish territory would be to establish bases to strike the UK from. No reason we should be funding their protection.

fly_agaric

@aidanodr "Like I said above US will eventually say, maybe sooner than we think, that Ireland IS NOT a safe base for its Multinationals if we dont take our defense INC HYBRID WARFARE / Cyber defense seriously."

This is an example of where loss of sovereignty comes in.

While you could see that type of comment from Trump or some future MAGA type Republican US President, what is just as likely is that (assuming they don't wish to pull up sticks) either companies, or countries they hail from just quietly take these things into their own hands completely.

It is similar (but not as extreme) as the way I think weak states in the developing world can get emasculated and left powerless by being unable to provide physical security, and even end up being "outgunned" by criminal networks, terrorists, MNCs and other actors on their own territory.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847057#Comment_121847057

You don't seem to realise there are underwater cables off our coast with would be an easy target for certain countries who wish to damage them when the nearest country is Ireland and we are toothless when it comes to defence.

aidanodr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847074#Comment_121847074

I was trying to work out @Downlinz logic here - "The only reason Russia would enter Irish territory would be to establish bases to strike the UK from. No reason we should be funding their protection." ... Funding the UKs protection or Russia's protection???? And that statement seems to say shur let the russians come here and set up your bases .. we will just sit back. Weird thing of course is IF this happened the UK would have no other recourse but to strafe and bomb the crap out of Ireland

Downlinz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847074#Comment_121847074

If a country actually wanted to damage the network cables that stretch across the Atlantic they'd find a place to do so covertly and no amount of defence is going to stop them. It would be another Nord Stream moment where a mystery drone explodes into them and the US and Russia point the finger at each other while nothing is ever proven.

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847084#Comment_121847084

putin has made a complete balls of invading a country right next door to them and sharing a very long land border. To predict a successful conventional invasion of Irish shores by putin's troops sounds a bit ridiculous to me. They have already lost a huge proportion of their black sea fleet to a country without a navy. To expect them to tip toe through EU and UK waters to land in Ireland and be able to supply whatever troops they land here is very far fetched and unlikely in my opinion.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121846969#Comment_121846969

Because currently the island is part UK part Ireland, so Russia would never takeover

Downlinz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847084#Comment_121847084

We shouldn't be funding the UK's protection, they're the military force causing turmoil in the middle east and providing weapons to anyone in a conflict with an adversary of NATO. They're naturally going to have a lot of enemies for a country forever involved in military operations across the globe and require heavy sophisticated defence as a result.

We don't have to provide that for them and shouldn't feel required or guilted into it. Their need for high defence is because of their actions and they will continue to provide it and fund it over Irish space regardless because their security is compromised otherwise.

Realistically if Russia wanted to invade us we aren't stopping them regardless of our military spend. I mentioned setting up bases to attack the UK from since that's the extent for why another country would invade Ireland. They're not going to level Waterford to the ground or start turning towns into Ballingrad

L.Ball

For all the mythologizing of the Celtic warrior trope, the Irish have neither the stomach nor the aptitude for war. While every other European nation has been knee deep in blood throughout history, we have neither fought or won any great wars, and our independence came cheap compared to others. We have the largest territorial waters Europe and we do not have a Navy or Air Force capable of patrolling it, resulting in hundreds of tonnes of drugs and thousands of people smuggled through them each year. It stands the reason we look to others to protect us, as we do not have the capability or the heart to do it ourselves.

highpitcheric

🙄 this topic again. Always with the same assumptions.

Nepal has a lot of mountaineering shops. We dont.

Australia sells a lot of suncream. We dont.

Estonia is right beside Russia, so yeah obviously theyre going to need conscription and a lot of military investment.

We dont.

So thats Estonia done. Its a terrible basis of comparison. Almost as bad as my nepal analogy.

Next. Fck the foreign critics.

None of their business. We work to our own agenda, or to agreed terms. Whoever is telling us what to do is doing so purely in their own self interest. Not one will have given a single shyte about Ireland previously. Now they think we should as they like.

Next, the govt are well into the process of acquiring the radar, yes its a disgraceful situation, but thats our business. Thats our dirty laundry. They have their own, let them focus on their own issues.

If a combination of non-membership and close proximity to a powerful defense alliance constitues freEloaDing!! 1

Then what does non-membership and close proximity to a powerful economic alliance constitute?

Should we tell the Brits to cop on and rejoin the EU?

Or do we respect that they set their own agenda?

Basically if youve no history of giving a hoot about Ireland then you dont get a say on this either.

highpitcheric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847104#Comment_121847104

Exactly this.

And much as the internet likes to exaggerate, we do have a significant number of personnel for the particular context of an attempt by outsiders at landing.

Russia has many troops, but fewer available for a naval expedition, and from a large navy fewer ships which are built for the task, and again fewer that can travel in those seas, and to that distance.

So i doubt any overwhelm. Landing troops is a huge disadvantage and exceptionally difficult even with short distances, never mind x thousand kms away.

A lot of hype by mil-sim nerds.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847057#Comment_121847057

I'm trying to parse how Belgium wouldn't have a similar argument in 1939, and it's not ending up well.

lumphammer2

When will the world ever learn?? ... the POISON of the arms industry and its support for politicians is sick .... might as well give the drug dealers a turn instead ... they'll do less damage than these boyos funding every major power ....

As regards Ireland ... of late this country has been commenting way too much on things like Russia v Ukraine .... we should stay outside of this arms dealer crime circus and do our own thing ... in Ireland's 100+ year history we managed to stay out of WW2, NATO v USSR and ... until now ... have stayed out of the successor US v Russia cold war ... we also are one of the few countries not attacked by Al Qaeda or ISIS .... let's keep it that way and stay OUT of this rubbish ....

jackofalltrades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847057#Comment_121847057

Boll*x, and oft repeated boll*x at that.

In the hypothetical instance that another country invades our territory it's our problem.

To be militarily neutral we have to be stop other countries from using our territory to launch attacks from.

Scipri0

What they want is for us to be another customer when it comes to buying their weapons and gear, and no matter how much Ireland bought, it wouldn't really help us anyway. The cables can be attacked anywhere outside of Ireland's EEZ if needed. There's also a lot of redundancy built in when it comes to these cables. It's not really about Ireland being able to defend itself. You think those conservative think tanks give a crap about Ireland?

We have a lot of issues to sort out first before we start pumping millions in this foreign defence firms with hardly any benefit to the Irish people. Better infrastructure and housing, better pay for the Defence Forces. I've always said this, if it was really about Ireland being able to defend itself and say we decided to build nukes (Which is the ultimate defence) What do you think the UK and the U.S. would do?

Would they say "Good job Ireland" Or would it be more along the lines of "No don't do that" We'd be threatened and sanctioned because the end goal is not us defending ourselves, but it's to buy their weapons. We've seen the results of the Nord Stream in the Baltic Sea surrounded by NATO nations with massive defence spending and yet somebody managed to slip by them all and damage the pipes.

Not even NATO's geostationary spy satellites or hydrophone equipment picked up anything. no pictures, no nothing. If it was Russia, we'd have pictures and proof now. The more likely cause is it was another NATO member state and if it got out that Ukraine or some other country destroyed the pipes to Germany then it would turn the people against the country. We now have Sweden and Denmark both have dropped investigations in the bombing of Nord Stream. What does that tell you? Ireland is also being lobby by foreign military firms including from Denmark where this NATO commander is from

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/10/06/as-ireland-seeks-to-upgrade-its-military-arms-manufacturers-take-interest/

Map of European cables

https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/191j8mw/europes_submarine_internet_cables_as_of_2022/

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/26/denmark-drops-investigation-nord-stream-pipeline-blasts

Scipri0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847383#Comment_121847383

I'm not 100% left. Why are you desperate to put me into a box on one topic? Ireland is ways away from anything like that. Yeah, We'll just spring up a few defence companies of our own in no time.

gw80

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847379#Comment_121847379

Can I ask,

Do you think we would have world peace if the American and European arms industry stopped making weapons?

Do you think,that the likes of Russia would not steam roll in and take over,?

Where do you think we would buy our weapons from if not Europe or America?, China?

I for one am glad there is a weapons industry, and would love to see ireland start producing weapons for defence,or at the very least maybe develop drone technologies.

Of course I would prefer if there was no need for a weapons industry,but unfortunately at this point in time that's not the reality.

Cluedo Monopoly

Aragh this is a nonsense. Equip our army so we can battle who exactly? How powerful do ye want it? Big enough to tackle Belgium or Indonesia or China?

Don't believe the hype or get sucked into the Lockheed narrative.

Unless of course Strongbow is coming back...?

Cyber spending yes but don't let our army near that.

L.Ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847383#Comment_121847383

Not as dead as our manufacturing industry, if we ever had one.

keeponhurling

I think we should increase our defence spending, and potentially to 2% and join NATO.

As Ukraine have discovered, being mates with UK / US/ EU doesn't really help as much as we might have thought.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058338841/ireland-now-considered-one-of-most-vulnerable-countries-in-the-eu-defense-wise

Ireland could spend 20% of our entire GDP on air and sea defense and still be vulnerable to being attacked by the only foreign country that would ever realistically attack us.

Estonia share a land border with Russia and have in living memory beein occupied by Russia. Russia is a ongoing existential threat to Estonia

Ireland do not have a land border with Russia, and while we should certainly have better surveilance and intelligence capabilities, if we were ever in a hostile war against Russia, they'd destroy our entire air and naval infrastruture in the first week of any engagement and we'd be just as vulnerable as we are now

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121846890#Comment_121846890

Boats, boots and planes don't to sh1t to protect against cyber warfare

L.Ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847554#Comment_121847554

Ok, so what you need to do is read the post I quoted, then re-read what I posted, and then in the context of those two posts try and work out what I'm saying. I would advise doing that before jumping in with an attempted gotcha, because you look stupid if do that.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847074#Comment_121847074

And how exactly do you expect to protect those from russian submarines? How many Irish submarines do we need to be constantly patroling these cables would we need to keep them safe?