Kilbarry Large-scale Development

Aquos76

https://kilbarrylrd.com/

Looks really impressive

A new & large roundabout needs to be put in place at that junction before any developments start!

azimuth17

Looks like a real positive step towards what's necessary for proper student accommodation in that area. Get students out of "normal" housing estates?

914

Great to see this, it's a pity it won't be owned by SETU as it would be a nice revenue stream for future developments.

They might regret closing the Dome bar with so many students living near by!

Wanderer78

very much needed, but im sure they residents of templers will have a few issues with it!

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121811388#Comment_121811388

I'd imagine they would be delighted to see students leave their estate and live in properly managed accommodation. There never seems to be any issue with student accommodation in Manor Street or un Riverwalk on the Inner Ring Road.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121812424#Comment_121812424

...i just cant see it happening that way, maybe it would simply increase the number of students in the whole area, with very few, if any great numbers actually leaving templers, i suspect this is the way residents will also see it, and present this in their proposals in refusal of planning...

azimuth17

If they eventally appeal this development to ABP. They will lose hands down. It is positive for Templars Hall and for students.

Hijpo

Why would lunatic students that have a free run of templars hall move into monitored accommodation.

I hope it happens but can't see it happening, unless the accommodation is significantly cheaper than tenplars.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813725#Comment_121813725

Because you are looking at the dark side? The Riverwalk place works perfectly. Things work out over time. Some laughif people in Temmplars Halll objected to something that will improve their area. But NIMBY is everywhere.

Dum_Dum_2

Can't for the life of me figure out why the map has omitted labels for the halting site and the civic amenity site.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813764#Comment_121813764

Lets not be naive, students love the party atmosphere. Student accommodation, no party. Housing estate out of scope of the college housing students, party central.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121813843#Comment_121813843

...i think some people live in cuckoo land when it comes to such things, its clearly obvious this is exactly what would happen, and residents are more than likely also gonna see it this way, hence why they ll be out in force to try prevent this, and rightfully so, templers is a dreadful place at times, i know people that had to run out of there due to the serious distress it was causing them and their family, and also know some that had no choice but to stay, i wish them the best...

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121814879#Comment_121814879

I may be among the naive ones, but I bet that it will get planning even if it is appealed to ABP. It's somewhat away from Templar's Hall on a detached site (as far as I can see). If we follow your and other's logic then student accommodation can't be built anywhere in the vicinty of the college because student's might go to Templar's Hall. If the college is to grow to 15,000 students which seems to be the target in the university I believe we all want and is necessary to stop the brain drain, then student accommodation will be a fact of life. Residents have had a difficult time in Templar's Hall,because a lack of proper accommodation forced people into houses in a family estate, but better management with improved access to proper accommodation is probably the key to the issues you mention.

Trying to stop this development is trying to stop part of the solution emerging IMHO.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815224#Comment_121815224

...the reality is, the damage is now done in the area regarding student accommodation, the situation in templers should have never been allowed to escalate to where it is or was, residents will simply do everything in their power to never allow this to happen again, and/or to allow it to escalate to where it is or was, there will clearly be extremely strong resistance from them, and you cant blame them either, again i know people that have lived there, and still do, its taken a significant toll on them and their family, with serous sleep deprivation, and other serious issues, try live under those type of conditions, and live a normal life, it causes serious stress in relationships....

...yes we re in desperate need of such facilities for students, but again, the damage is now done in this area.....

...ive been a student myself in the past, we of course had our parties and what not, but theres major differences to then and now, theres been a monumental rise in the use of drugs, especially class a's since then, this is causing a significant rise in antisocial behavior amongst its users, of which is extremely high amongst students, again, try live a normal life around such behaviors, and you ll know all about it....

...again, its highly unlikely that student residents would reduce in the surrounding areas, as thats what the properties were build for, this can be very lucrative for landlords, but many simply turn a blind eye to the anti-social behaviors, and as others have said, if the proposed is indeed a well managed facility, the problems will simply migrate to these surrounding areas....

...the only way around these issues is green field sites away from non student accommodation, to give these non student residents at least a chance of living a normal happy life, cause otherwise, its hell....

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815281#Comment_121815281

That's the Northern ireland attitude. Damage done, so nothing can be done or fixed? Bad landlords do have responsibility. As far as I can see its a greenfield site away from existing "normal"housing. Offering trenchant opposition based on past issues is simply preventing a solution emerging. Its always the same. As I said, I believe this will get planning.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815324#Comment_121815324

no, this is our now reality, i.e. nothing to do with northern ireland, nothing at all!

...theres clearly serious anti-social issues with a cohort of students, whom many are consuming extremely large amounts of cocaine, and other drugs, this is having a serious and detrimental effect on others, including inducing serious mental health issues, due to sleep deprivation from these anti-social behaviors....

...go and talk to these individuals, better again, go and stay with them during college term, and see for yourself....

...the site proposed is clearly surrounded by student and none student accommodation, in close proximity....

...significantly increasing student accommodation in the area is not a 'solution', its a big 'fcuk you' to those none student residents, that have been very negatively effected thus far.....

...i may stand corrected on this, but i believe such a proposal was made before, and was refused, so.....

azimuth17

My understanding is that the refused permission was on a site almost in Templar's hall. The present one, again in my understanding, is that this is part of a large scale urban renewal development on the whole site from the Yellow House outward which has been worked on in council and with the developer for more than a year as is normal with these LSDs . God know's the site, the city and the area needs it. The attitude you espouse is as we have heard from Northern Ireland voices over the past 50 years, ie, we cannot forget what happened in the past, therefore we cannot move on to any solution. Of course the present site has nothing to do with Northern ireland.

The condemnation of student life as all the same and drug fueled, because of a cohort, is bit of a stretch.These are issues for the forces of law. The site faces the Cork Road Road opposite the old glass works and is surrounded by an independent road network. It is detached from Templar's Hall as the map supplied above shows. Your post suggests that student accommodation would have to be built miles from anywhere lest it interfere with anyone. I rather fear from reading your posts from time to time that you are opposed to any development. Nimbyism perhaps?

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815224#Comment_121815224

15k students is debatable. The plan is for SETU to get to 25k, presently there is 19k students.

Waterford has 9k approx students. That would mean Waterford would need to obtain every single one of those places, with a new campus planned for Wexford and extending the Carlow Campus I don't see how we get to 15k students in Waterford unless the board grows a pair and establishes Waterford as the driving force behind SETU.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121815693#Comment_121815693

A possible 3 2 1 split in favour of Waterford. Would give Waterford say 13000. That still needs a lot of accommodation. Hard to see Wexford doing much more than 1000 in short term. Carow numbers always a bit of a mystery and subject to massive fluctuations.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121816077#Comment_121816077

You would think that would occur as it's the most logical, a lot will depend where the minister of the day is!

i.e if Wexford have a full minister we will see funds made available for Wexford campus.

Same for Carlow/KK as it would be for Waterford. The whole sham of the TU, local politics will now play a major role.

Either way the accommodation is very welcome but also confirms the state of the TU process.

TUs unable to borrow from the ECB to build such developments in order to provide a revenue stream for further developments without depending on the minister of the day.

Instead these projects will be built and owned by private industry where the TUs make zero income from such developments.

Mr Frisby will own all the student accommodation, own and redevelop the old crystal office block and rent it to SETU. Master stroke by him.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121816469#Comment_121816469

I believe that SETU will develop its own student accommodation on the site they have purchased as borrowing will eventually have to be allowed for TUs. Mr Frisby will develop his as well. How that will work out I dont know.

One caveat about ministerial power. Howlin and Hogan were in power, the former for a long time. He tried to get Carlow iT to improve its offer in Wexford over many years, all with no result. HEA would not agree. There has been a fairly unsuccessful Carlow IT campus in Wexford for years, even the strongest politician can't wave magic wand and move courses from one place to another. SETU board permission and HEA agreement would be necessary for a start. They will need to develop courses that are not already on offer and make a business case to stand them up AFAIK. They have a a hard road ahead. Anyone who knows Poppyfield outside Clonmel will know what I mean.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121816744#Comment_121816744

I'm not convinced, IT Carlow rarely mentioned having a campus in Wexford as you said they had little interest in it.

Whereas SETU always state, Carlow, Waterford and Wexford Campuses.

They even hold graduate ceremonies in Wexford since the establishment of SETU. There seems to be a focus on Wexford with the whole "regional" balance that TUs play into these days.

Howlin and Wexford politicians in particular were very keen in getting SETU over the line they surely have something lined up.

That said I'll keep that talk for the SETU thread and let this thread get back to the kilbarry development

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058337681/kilbarry-large-scale-development

Brilliant news

Valhalla90

Looks good and to be honest the site is a mess currently. The not in my back yard brigade will probably still be out in force.

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058337681/kilbarry-large-scale-development

Traffic wil be MENTAL

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121848383#Comment_121848383

Why? It will be a building site the same as many others on the road to the Six Cross roundabout, none of which have caused any problems. There is a very large student village in Riverwalk and another opposite Morris's in The Manor which never cause any traffic problems.

Stop looking for difficulties in advance and winding up people.

spankmemunkey

I'm gonna get some grief on this one, but I would rather see this go up, a well managed maintained building that's creating jobs and revenue for the local economy, than the estate that's just been built just off from the proposed site, given out to people free or for very little rent and its already a rough looking spot, Piles of pallets been collected and sold from the very first building and it just gets worse.

Do the council not have an appointed person that goes around and checks that their properties are being properly cared for?

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121848725#Comment_121848725

I'm doing nothing of the sort, I live in a very close proximity to that area, the traffic up the kilbarry road is always very heavy at certain times of the day, the traffic coming upto that junction is very heavy at certain times a day, it will add to traffic in that area, Planning and adequate planning is what I have an issue with, all of the traffic that's on that main artery all leads to ONE lane coming off Six Cross Roads to the Outter Ring Road, and as a result backs traffic up way down nearly as far as the Tesco roundabout, Traffic will be impacted by this, The council aren't great at amending infrastructure as a result of massive amounts of building work over the past number of years, Templars, Foxwood, Tesco Carraig an Aird Musgraves etc etc etc

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849128#Comment_121849128

Funny I seem to recall your early posts when you thought nothing was going on in this part of the world..? Now that its going on to improve a situation by providing proper, well managed, student accommodation, adjacent to a university, you are against it. Nimbyism, or am I missing the point?

Of course the area may need traffic remediation, as do many places in the city. Car ownership has multiplied three fold over past three decades after all. I use the road to the Six Cross very regularly by the way as it provides access (built by the council) to and from the Outer Ring Road. You should go to Galway and see what traffic problems really mean as they do not have road infrastructure as good as that in Waterford.

Questions about management of council properties and negative behviour therein, as you mention, has nothing to do with what is proposed and should not be conflated with proper student accommodation, such as Riverwalk to which I again draw your attention as to how a well managed student village works.

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849269#Comment_121849269

I don't think Nimbyism has anything to do with highlighting a problem that affects most road users, I mentioned my location as a means to justify the fact that I can see on a daily basis how busy that junction is and the traffic on it, I have nothing against this development it seems to be a nice development and here's hoping it goes well, but I do have concerns about the increase in traffic in that area and I think as a tax paying, voting citizen I am entitled to raise my concerns and furthermore I think debate is a good thing, I think its very dangerous if things get introduced without argument or debate. As to your comment about my previous posts I think that reflects more on you than me.

That proposed site will be on an already major junction that is already very busy, unlike that other places you mentioned.

I also have a concern when it comes to this particular developer, putting objections in on other major proposals in their own financial interests not in the interests of the community, Decathlon was blocked by Frisby on the basis that it would affect his business not because it would affect the greater good of the community.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849327#Comment_121849327

Wouldn't there have been thousands of lads going in and out to work there and using those roads before the Crystal site became derelict, as well as all the lorries and tourists too? Don't forget the ring road and the bypass have also diverted probably hundreds of cars away from that area every day.

I'd also counter that locating students right next to where they study could actually reduce traffic in the area as students will be able to walk across to college every day rather than driving in from somewhere else.

Daniel son

I imagine the car parking spaces will be limited due to the proximity of the site to the college.

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849408#Comment_121849408

I wouldn't say there were thousands of people working there on one shift? Also there has been a huge amount of development out the klibarry road in the 14 or so years since the Crystal has been closed, The Six Cross Roads exit to Outer Ring Road is always backed up due to bad planning which is the point I'm making, That exit is always backed right up to the Tesco roundabout and is a bottle neck as the exit bottles down to one exit and back out to 2 at the very last 2 or 3 cars, There is an issue with traffic in all the arteries leading to outer ring road at that particular time and it is an issue.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849408#Comment_121849408

...theres far more traffic on the road nowadays, a significant proportion of students now also drive, compared to previous generations, yes students may walk to college from this location, but noting not all college activities take place on main campus, with some having to move between various locations, meaning they ll be driving, so....

azimuth17

The suggestion that the road from the firestation through Ballybeg to the Six Cross roundabout is jam packed with traffic all the time is risible. I use it very regularly in both directions. There are natural hold ups at the Cork Road and ORR junctions at busy times, but what do people expect? We do have some kind of functioning economy. The suggestion that large scale student housing as opposite Morris's and at Riverwalk on the Inner Ring are not on busy roads is likewise risible. Neither ever cause any traffic hold up even though according to Wanderer 78 "a significant proportion of students now also drive, compared to previous generations" as far as I can see and I pass both places multiple times per day. Anyone who remembers the glass in full swing will tell you about the thousands who worked there daily (I don't recall shift work) and hundreds of thousands per annum who visited the showrooms.

Throwaway, catch all remarks of "bad planning" in the Ballybeg area, simply because traffic backs up at peak times are just plain wrong and unfair. Perhaps those making that allegation would care to expand in detail on what they mean by"bad planning"? All the land out along the road mentioned is within the ORR circle, convenient to most facilities and has been zoned for housing for a long time. New access roads were opened up for new housing along the road which was redeveloped and widened with roundabouts to give access to the ORR.

Those posting about traffic delays should try accessing the M50 at peak times to see what delay really means.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849748#Comment_121849748

...and again, there is now a significantly higher volume of vehicles on the road compared to previous generations, this includes a significantly higher volume of small trips including school runs, work related trips, and of course social related trips, this includes student traffic, as many students also have to balance their studies with work, and other life commitments, including social commitments, all of this increases the volume of traffic on our roads....

...yes its best we use current traffic situations such as the m50 to highlight what it is like when significantly increasing traffic in areas, and come to conclusions in order to try prevent traffic problems elsewhere, so great point, thank you....

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849807#Comment_121849807

You cannot have it both ways. Either the proposed student accommodation will cause traffic problems or it will not. Large scale, existing student accommodation does not, either in the Manor or in Riverwalk, despite your (Wanderer 78) suggestion that "a significant number of students now also drive". Traffic problems, such as they are on the road between the Fire Station and ORR, are a result of peak time traffic caused by ecnocomic growth which your posts have constantly viewed in a very negative light, unless I am mistaken.

Your posts suggest to me that you live in the area and are espousing a clearly NIMBY point of view. This LSD will be permitted for obvious reasons both by council and/or by ABP, because its in the right place.

I have no connection in any form with the developer involved.

914

For anyone who has or currently uses the college, the car park is an absolute nightmare, if you are a student staying in the newly proposed accommodation you will 100% walk over to the main campus as trying to get parking there is a disaster.

Any students with cars will most likely use them outside of peak hours so while it might see an increase in traffic I don't see if being a significant increase especially at peak times.

I'm not but if I was worried about added traffic volumes I'd probably be more concerned about the plans for the innovation Centre, if this is full of businesses the majority of people working there will drive to the location.

What's the alternative? Leave lands idle? Build housing? Which adds more traffic?

Valhalla90

This planned development is in the right location. It could not be a better site. Nobody is affected by it. If anything it most likely will take students out of the likes of Templers Hall estate. But then again people would rather moan and look at an empty overgrown wasteland.

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849748#Comment_121849748

So you're comparing it to the M50 and we should be happy that its not like that.

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850263#Comment_121850263

Its not about moaning and what we would prefer or not prefer, its about bad planning and hoping that this isn't another case of that, I'm all for it otherwise, but I think too many people are too quick to jump the gun and say yep will be great go ahead there bosco no bodder boi, I also think that a few posters on here are either in planning or related to someone in planning. I think to not argue (DEBATE) about a proposed development is lunacy.

spankmemunkey

Ill give an example of bad planning, if you come to the lights on the Cork Road outside Heaton Buckley(Chadwicks) if you want to turn left down towards Meadowbank and a bus happens to be stopped at the bus stop cars on a green light can no longer turn left on a green light as the bus blocks the progress of traffic as its at its stop, this then backs traffic up at that junction, that is bad planning, that stop should be no where near those traffic lights,

My concern is the proximity to those traffic lights and entrance and exits of cars into that new facility and of course extra traffic in that area, I'm not going to speculate on it any more that's just my opinion on it and time will tell, I will be avoiding that area in the mornings and evenings coming to and from work.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121851989#Comment_121851989

These are traffic management issues for heavens sake, not bad planning.

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121852553#Comment_121852553

Not really no, I disagree

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121851989#Comment_121851989

Have you contacted your local councillors to see if a proper bus stop can be built there?

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121853141#Comment_121853141

Might I suggest if you do intend to take your traffic management concerns further that you contact the council Road's Department and not the Planning Department.

nomoedoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121851989#Comment_121851989

I think you mean turning right and not left at heatons ,the same issue on the manor outside the circle k garage ,and its like that in all cities across Ireland i was in Limerick Dublin and Cork recently and it was the same with bus stops on the road ,as others have said these are traffic management issues not planning department issues .

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121851989#Comment_121851989

So are you suggesting that students will add to the traffic congestion locally as they will be driving from the new development to the SETU campus during peak times….?

Another question….does the waterford urban area really suffer from traffic congestion..? outside the two week day peaks of 8am to 9am and 4:45pm to 6pm traffic flows fairly freely unless there is an accident or it’s the Friday of a long weekend…!

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121854862#Comment_121854862

No I'm not, Im suggesting that if an entry exit is put in close proximity to those traffic lights any traffic coming and going will add to traffic issues.

spankmemunkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121854458#Comment_121854458

I'm sorry, traffic management is a part of planning if you're planning a new build traffic and entry exits are taken into consideration in planning and objections.