Are the Irish fit to be let at the controls?

We are not good at governing ourselves, we always put far too many eggs in one basket and make sneaky retrograde cuts elsewhere, leaving ourselves vulnerable when a critical part snaps. We have massive borrowings too. As a nation we love sight of the shiny crock of leprechaun gold which moves further away the closer we approach. Yes we have a surplus, we have invested in certain infrastructure but we have failed to plan, and continue to plan for upcoming failure. We love the shiny economic bragging rights, without sufficiently investing in the supports that keep the core of society functioning the way a country with our GDR ought to:

We're at the end of a long unwinding of how things were done in the state, for example are we the only country in the world with semi-state companies that are nighter public or private?

A group or class I'm not sure what you would call them seems to be on every board that has any connection to the state I am sure some are very competent but a amount appear not to have the talent or skill or ability to do the job.

This group is a merry-go-round of journalists, barristers, Irish speakers, former professors of something connected to the issue, art types, and members of some professional bodies.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806595#Comment_121806595

If you're directing that at me I'm neither a conspiracy theorist, a person that whines about globalists (I work in a MNC!), nor a "real patriot" either

Who is capable though compared to us

US - shitshow

UK - shitshow

Germany - shitshow

France - shitshow

Japan - ticking timebomb of demographic catastrophe

A lot of the countries that got praise and were seen as the gold standards for running themselves years ago have lost the run of themselves the last few years with massive social and infrastructural problems

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806249#Comment_121806249

I think it's you who needs to look beyond your WhatsApp groups and Gript twitter feed.

By literally any objective measure, this is one of the best places in the world to live. Every single international study that comes out about quality of life, freedom of the press, equality, education, and so - has Ireland at or near the top.

A few more immigrants to dilute down the 'pathetic racist whingers' cohort of Irish people isn't a bad thing. They might actually be grateful to be here.

You also have the freedom to up sticks and move to any of about 30 other countries tomorrow.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806873#Comment_121806873

It could & should be one of the very best places to live, so much going for us. As long as you don’t get sick, disabled or need a house.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806799#Comment_121806799

UK & Germany only became the shitshow they are in more recent times.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806731#Comment_121806731

There's a VAST list of European companies that are partially state owned, formerly fully state owned, state owned with employee share ownership arrangements for part of them and all sorts of state bodies.

RTÉ is a 100% state owned public corporation. It's structured very much like quite a lot of other European PSBs and also evolved out of a PTT type ownership in the early 60s.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806967#Comment_121806967

The UK literally had to call the IMF in back in 1976 and recently bailed out all of its commercial banks, some of which remain in state ownership.

Off the top of my head: Cash-for-questions scandals, Charles accepting charity donations in the Middle East in suitcases of cash... The Queen Mother allegedly left £7 million in gambling debts which had to be paid off.

Germany has been through plenty of corruption scandals. Just off the top of my head, the Flick Affair in the 1980s where the CDU, CSU, FDP and SDP were all taking bungs from major conglomerates to get laws through.

There's a laundry list of scandals about the privatisation of former East German state owned companies.

The CDU Schwarzgeldaffäre in the late 1990s ...

If you look back at the chaos in Berlin in the early 00s and late 1990s there was endless over spending and dodgy stuff going on https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/may/28/johnhooper

The Berlin-Brandenberg Airport is a 30 year+ mess.

The economic catastrophy that gripped the state from its foundation as recently as 10years ago means that most of the talented people you needed to competently run a nation left and all we had left where the left behind also rans, who rose to the top and brought their petty corruptions to everything they touched. Only if we can work out how to retain our most talented to assume positions of administration can we hope to build a more balanced future.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806957#Comment_121806957

Again, we have a massive social welfare system and free universal health care.

Is it perfect? No. Is it better than what the overwhelming majority of the planet's population have? Absolutely, it is off the charts.

Lewis_Benson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058337551/are-the-irish-fit-to-be-let-at-the-controls

Sure it'll be grand.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806677#Comment_121806677

Wealthy people will often have gotten to that state by minimising their tax, together with being very good at earning money. I'd guess that at least half or more of Apple's vast wealth is off the back of tax minimisation that is so aggressive I think avoidance would be more apt. Aided and abetted by one of Europe's most atrocious tax avoidance schemes - Ireland.

This hatred and tax suspicion of the wealthy is just begrudgery on your part and those with a similar gripe. It's all the more astonishing given that Ireland is little more than a giant cargo-cult based on attracting large US MNCs looking to minimise their tax. Do you remember the Panama Papers and shock-horror of all those wealthy people using that place to run their family and other trusts out of that disguise their wealth and tax liabilities? Well guess which country was at the front of the queue objecting when the EU was proposing legislation to make trusts transparent so that the true beneficiaries were exposed? Good old cold wet Panama East.

The irony of Irish people complaining about tax avoidance by individuals is mind blowing. We need to import more mirrors, so more people can get a good look at themselves.

Irelands problem isn't tax revenue - It just had the largest tax surplus in the EU; €10 billion - it's wasteful stupid expenditure, something that would take writing a book to cover. Councils buying existing housing stock instead of building them themselves for half the cost. Building a children's hospital for more than double the cost of a near equivalent recently completed in Perth, Australia. The list is bloody endless.

pauly58

it isn't just Ireland that has the problem with incompetent Ministers, it's the system of people being appointed with no relevant qualifications or work experience. The most glaring must be Noonan the school teacher suddenly being a Finance Minister, not a bulls notion of what he was doing, he's not the only one by any means.

CalamariFritti

Honestly I dont think its an Irish thing.

Call me a cynic but I'm beginning to think it's more or less part of the job description for governments and higher levels of administration and other state bodies to organise the robbing of the public funds. While keeping a pretence of this not being so. In some countries its less in other countries its more overt.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807601#Comment_121807601

Well, the current British Chancellor of the Exchequer has an excellent background in PR, language teaching and ran and became very wealthy having sold a successful online educational directory company, Hotcourses. So, obviously was perfectly qualified to be Health Secretary and then Chancellor of the Exchequer, amongst other things.

The general idea is the minister isn't supposed to be an expert in the area, rather they're supposed to be an expert in taking advice from experts - namely their officials and advisors.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806021#Comment_121806021

Shure we just love a party and spending money, especially other peoples. Back before the crash, folks in all walks of life all over the country went a bit mad, over-borrowing and over-spending on stuff like there was no tomorrow. People were splashing cash like they were seriously wealthy - hey look at me I'm great - shopping weekends to NY, multiple properties, holiday homes abroad, expensive cars, designer everything, no worries about debt or what could change. Shure it'll be grand 😉. The IMF had to rein it in.

Since they left, the mad spending is on again, only this time it's the state gone a bit mad and spending taxes like there's a never-ending supply - hey look at us, we're the best - most expensive childrens hospital in the world, more supports for ukranian refugees and immigrants, more money in foreign aid, a billion for NI projects, unnecessary referendums, overruns on spending, no worries about paying down debt, fixing the mountain of social issues or what could change. Shure it'll be grand. We have a magic money tree.

Must be something in the psyche. Always trying to prove to others that we are 'better' whether it's at an individual or local level, and by some of our politicians who think they are world leaders 😂😂. Maybe Churchill had a point.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807601#Comment_121807601

Eamon Ryan, organiser of bicycle tours, being minister for two portfolios beyond his level of competence ruling against a free LNG terminal for a floating one with huge on-going maintainance costs paid for by yet another levy on people's power bills, instead of by a private company at no cost.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807619#Comment_121807619

i work for a large multinational. it's my opinion that any large institution that's around long enough starts to drown in its own processes. it's not just a public sector thing.

murpho999

I can't stand the narrative of people trying to make out that Ireland is a failed state and then backing it up by comparisons to the UK or with quotes from Winston Churchill of all people who has never done one single thing for Ireland.

Anyhow, the point is that the country despite problems with housing is in better shape than it has ever been. People saying it's never been worse or either very young or have short memories.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s when the economy was in strife, there was no work. The church had to much power over the people and government whist it ran sweat shops, protected sexual predators and deviants whilst the population were denied rights such as sexual freedom, contraception, abortion and divorce.

Now the economy has improved no end and people can live successful lives here. The church is not as dominant as it was, but people still hanging onto them too much for my liking, bouncy castle Catholics as example. People can get jobs when they finish college. Social Welfare is generous, roads have improved and the country has a new confidence about it self that it didn't have 30 years ago.

Yes there are problems, housing, planning, infrastructure and health are the big ones. I do think a lot of this caused by how we are governed. Fox example not enough power in local politics resulting in TDs, as national politicians looking after local issues. You should not be going to TDs but Councillors about local issues and that needs to change.

Some problems faced are unique to Ireland and some are global. None are insurmountable and this country should be proud of how it has developed since it was left in an awful mess by Britain 100 years ago.

We're on a journey that's not complete yet so I think we'll continue to improve and look after its affairs better but please stop saying it's failing or in a bad way when it's not and stop comparing us to the basket case that is the UK. That is not what we should comparing ourselves against or aspiring to.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806195#Comment_121806195

Richest 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

bullpost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806677#Comment_121806677

hmm - maybe you need to do a little research?

Start here :

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807789#Comment_121807789

i work for a large multinational

So do I, and yes there's that - it's an old wisdom that every bureaucracy will only ever grow itself never make itself smaller - but thats not quite the same thing. There's also cronyism, arse covering and outright shenanigans and corruption. Anyone who thinks this doesnt happen in our supposedly advanced societies is kidding themselves.

SuperBowserWorld

Everyone owes 42 grand and increasing..

And people think that's grand.

People who have no money and magically have loads at Christmas time.

People who have loads of money, but magically need to be bailed out.

😁

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806873#Comment_121806873

If you're irish and you know it clap your hands , you'll never beat the irish , etc etc etc.

Ireland is a long off being a shithole for now , but it is repeatedly mismanaged by incompetence and buffoons who are full of self importance.

Worst move we ever made in alot of respects moving here in 2002. Hopefully gone again before the bubble bursts and locals plus all the new irish will be living on a diet of misery again. Unfortunately.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807585#Comment_121807585

I'm not understanding your comment.

You make tax avoidance sound like a tawdry thing and don't seem too impressed by it.

Yet you also think Irish people shouldn't complain and begrudge wealthy people with "tax suspicion", but claim tax avoidance is partly how that wealth is gained.

So is avoiding tax good, neutral or bad? And what should Irish people's attitude be?

Taking a longer historical view.

It is part of a trend of trying to perfect society, a belief that more regulation, more scrutiny, more compliance, more administration, and more openness, more stakeholders will make things better but instead everything ends up in a quagmire.

Any major or even minor infrastructure project will receive dozens of submissions and they all have to be considered and dealt with. That is not just an Irish thing though.

The Irish state seems to have a huge history of farming out what should be state-provided services to NGOs and charities and that is part of the issue.

TFI Local Link DSL is an independent company, not for profit. https://locallinkdsl.ie/about-us/

Why is transport in rural areas run by an NGO for example?

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807800#Comment_121807800

The country has moved on and got better but the public services and government didn't really move with the times, they are still stuck in those old ways. Now maybe the tea lady is not coming around anymore at 11 or 3 but there is still that, can I say "old world", about the public service and government.

In my opinion what is wrong is that the higher ups in Government and Public Service come across as being unprofessional, vindictive and petty. If someone looks to expose wrong doing what is the first thing these institutions do, look to deny it, then look to destroy the creditability of the person exposing the wrong doing and if that doesn't work then set about calling for report after report anything to kick the can down the road. Rather just getting in acknowledging the problem, fix it and remove those responsible. We seen a good example of this at that Oireacthas hearing last week where I think it was a FG senator having a go at Aine O'Leary for not bringing the issue to higher authority and I thought she answered him well and put him in his place when she said she reported it up the chain and she was the one that called in the auditors that caused all this to break and she said to him what more did you want me to do, the FG person quickly moved on.

I do think we need to start having a more professional attitude from government and Public Service and that means more accountability, transparency and also responsibility on spending tax payers money.

This content has been removed.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807908#Comment_121807908

The NTA was set up to rein in CIE. They don't want to be running the services directly, rather they want to pay private companies to do it. Examples being the Luas and Go-Ahead (although the latter has shown that the private model doesn't necessarily work well either). I presume the rural services are NGOs because they'd never be profitable if run as a commercial venture.