Range Finders

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121823771#Comment_121823771

Its of course not outside the rules, but I'd strongly argue that feel, touch and imagination still have a valuable place in golf and its not just a science. I don't think there's a specific distance, its one of those things where you just "know".

I remember playing in the Father & Son in Castle a few years ago and we were paired with a guy and his son - now the son was a genuinely good player, he was only I think 13 years old and had some high finishes in provincial u13 and u14 events and was on the fringes of national selection (so they told us anyway). He was off 3 and we had a good aul game, I was teeing off on the same holes as him and was about the same handicap but probably 25 or 30 years older 😁😥. I thought it was interesting that even on 20/30 yard shots around the green, his dad had him lasering the pins. The one that stuck in my mind for anyone that knows the course, was the par 4 12th and they were about 15 yards short, in front of the green, pancake flat, nothing in the way, and they're lasering the flag, bonkers stuff IMHO. Personally i thought it was of dubious benefit and would actually stifle the kids growth and the development of his scoring game. Or maybe I'm just an old fart and its the modern way. Each to their own obviously, but I'll always believe that around the greens, feel and touch trump everything.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824141#Comment_121824141

they genuinely have a swing for 30 yards and another swing for 25 yards

personally, i'm more of a feel player on those kind of shots

RoadRunner

I generally don't benefit from knowing the exact measured distance when it's 30 yards. I use my eyes to gauge and my brain works better with that visual. If you tell me it's 28 or 31 yards for example it won't affect my shot. So I don't laser from that range. The exact point for where my eyes take over and the laser becomes obsolete is different for me vs different golfers. Bryson for example paces out his putts. I'm probably closer than most in that I like confirmation of exact distance from about 50-60 yards minimum which i suspect is less than most. That 13 year old, in my opinion should feel free to play the game his own way, not just because he is only 13, when he grows up to into his 20's and has people commenting on him telling him not to do that. Interestingly, the 13 year old will likely destroy us all here around the green on an indoor simulator. The short game element is difficult to use there for us because we struggle to perceive the distance of shorter shots around the green. When called apon to hit a 21 yard chip without that experience, it's pot luck for us.

FixdePitchmark

But at 13 ..the joy is to watch someone do something naturally...

The beauty of the natural ability of a human.

What other sport are we enabling electronics to help you .

I personally think the governing bodies caved on technology and would prefer none of it to be honest .

Sport should be sport...

I personally don't think Lasers speed up play ....and if you see a lad laser from 30 yards on the first hole...you know your day is over..

dan_ep82

I can usually land 2-3yds if not on the number inside 70yds and I’d get a yardage from fairly close in. With some tricky greens I might even walk up for a quick look at the breaks and landing spot. The one thing I suck at is guessing a yardage, I’m easily 20yds out on most guesses.

If you’ve played with me you couldn’t ever accuse me of being slow though. If you care about pace of play you’ll never be a problem, the ones that are don’t care.

benny79

@FixdePitchmark "What other sport are we enabling electronics to help you." Regards this before electronics in golf you had caddies pacing out distances for their Pro's, I guess this is how caddies came about I'd imagine.. Golf as in the playing is about hitting the shots just because you know the flag is x amount of yards doesnt mean you are going to get it close.. IMO you have to know distances that's the nature of the game. Hence why you have different clubs which all go different distances etc. Lasers and gps's just help speed up the process and helps the weekend warriors who dont have the luxury of caddies or from pacing it out..

Like imagine there was no lasers, gps's or distance markers on a course as in nothing! Imagine how slow that would be! Pro's are also taking 41/2 + rounds and thats with caddies and how good they are.. but I suppose different circumstances involved ie Money, longer courses etc..

RoadRunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824354#Comment_121824354

2 Qs

1) What yardage do you draw the line of whether it's acceptable to laser or not? And 2) Can someone just use distance measuring device to ascertain if they're within that acceptable range or not?

FixdePitchmark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827074#Comment_121827074

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827074#Comment_121827074

I know your trolling me...

But will reply later..

But these dudes would bring it on the green if they could think of it ..place their bags on / next to green and walk back and forth about 3 times..

So you are right ..a rule may have to come in at some point..

Maybe withing the green area as marked in some courses..

Because bags and players are getting too close to greens and tee boxes...

When it comes to AI / technology dudes in golf..you need to think of the most daft thing..

Seve OB

Talking of Caddies

Back in the 80's and probably early 90's caddies were very popular in a lot of clubs. Then the Electric cart came along and wiped them out.

Caddies back then in a lot of instances were nothing more than young lads paid to drag/carry your clubs around, not say to much, the old keep up and shut up attitude. I know because I was one of them in my own club, generally just for the old man and his mates. Of course other clubs may have had more professional caddies.

£5 was the going rate back than (and maybe a can of Coke and a Mars bar on the way around😂). As a young lad you would be doing alright to get £1 an hour in most jobs back then. I remember that because that was how much I got paid in the local garage to fill petrol, keep the forecourt tidy and shop stocked. But I remember golf was better because it worked out at about £1.25 an hour

Anyway, I digress but I do have a salient point to make here. So as I described so colourfully above, caddying 35-40 years ago was pretty much always (give or take a few minutes) about 4 hours. A round on my same home course today is pretty much always within an asses roar of 4 hours.

So has technology slowed the game down? It has in it's arse.

slave1

30-60yards I whip out the finder, only takes a few seconds and eliminates doubt, sometimes I'm amazed what looks like 35y is actually 50y especially on large greens.

Don't forget apart from breaks the green design with levels is to fool the approach shot as change in levels fools the eye, all mute now with ranger finders

RoadRunner

"So you are right ..a rule may have to come in at some point.."

__________

😉 I'll have a whack at it..

Rule 27.5 b-A21 v.3, players are permitted to use distance measuring devices only if the flag is beyond 74 yards (67.5 meters), that can be confirmed by stepping off the distance if it's not clear. Should the flag's tip sway into a wind-induced bow bringing it temporarily within the 74-yard (67.5 meter) limit, players must wait for it to resume its upright posture before proceeding to laser it's distance. A misjudgment or premature measurement, especially if a player deems themselves within the restricted range incorrectly, incurs a strict two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. 

Golf lacks eccentric, caveated rules 🤣 like the time I couldn't get a drop from an animal hole as the clear animal scrapings were unidentifiable as being of a type of animal technically classified as being of a burrowing animal family. Many animals leave large marks on a golf course for example deer, adult male bull elephants etc, but rules stipulate you cannot get a drop from "non-burrowing" species 🤔 great stuff there, from some scottish pr1ck who had that written into the rules to pull one over on his mate 300 years ago and take the 5 shillings.

I say live and live in cases where someone uses a laser from closer to the green then others would, or, uses iron protective covers or a jigger close to the green, or low ankle socks or whatever else that might be uncool. We don't need to legislate for each of these (maybe ankle socks?)

RoadRunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827341#Comment_121827341

I'm afraid under the news rules that's to be banned 😂

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827341#Comment_121827341

Good God, do you use it on larger greens before putting?

slave1

Not for when on the green, for when 30-60yards off the green, never use it around the green

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827815#Comment_121827815

not even on the 12th Green @ The European 😁

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827815#Comment_121827815

If you need a RF 30yrds from the green, I’d be looking for your guide dog, thankfully the new rule linked above does away with that nonsense.

blue note

I feel like I should go to confession or something. Sometimes, I'll take a sneaky glance at my watch from a relatively short distance to get the distance to the front and back of a green. In particular if the green is raised and you can see the surface, it's not a bad thing to know.

RoadRunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827894#Comment_121827894

4 hail marys and 2 our fathers 😲 (and your sins will be absolved)

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827853#Comment_121827853

why do you care though so much about what other people are doing.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827989#Comment_121827989

Sometimes I have to play with them.

El Guapo!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828015#Comment_121828015

Those poor people.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828175#Comment_121828175

I suspect I am one of many who would like the time taken to play rounds to be shorter, and rolls their eyes when you see someone close to the green taking out a RF. I have less pity for those who take their game so seriously, or think they have the talent to hit the ball the yardage they measure on their RF. It’s a form of delusion, and just wanting to follow the trend of having the latest gadget.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828271#Comment_121828271

but it has been pretty much proven that using a range finder doesn't contribute to a longer round. so you are only deluding yourself.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828334#Comment_121828334

Proven by Bushnell?

Seve, any activity, be it 20 practice swings for each shot, excessive time lining up putts, slow walking, time taken to use range finders ( I’ll accept that some people are quick in their use, if you’ll accept some are slow) spending 10mins looking for a ball etc, all take from the enjoyment of the game by others.

My main gripe, apart from the time taken by some to use RFs, is that for many they are totally useless and if you need them on the course you play week in week out, you probably have a learning difficulty.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828434#Comment_121828434

so for your main gripe that they are useless, why are you so concerned about what others do? just don't use one yourself and don't worry about what others do.

if your playing partner wants to laser his 27 yard putt, it makes no difference to you (apart from you finding it annoying stupid and daft) as long as they keep up with the pace of play. thus no additional time added to your round

you can be no faster than the group in front.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828481#Comment_121828481

I don’t use one, like most, I am happy to aim mid green and take whatever luck gives me.

Their use is now ubiquitous, so if the group in front are also using them, well I’ll let you work out the rest.

What do they bring to the game of a person who knows the direct line yardage, doesn’t allow for slope, weather, green hardness etc, all the variables which regularly influence golf shots, and more importantly, cannot reproduce shot distance? Nada, nothing.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827853#Comment_121827853

So 30yards off a green that's 70+yards deep can make the pin ~100yards away (and there are plenty of deep greens out there) and I'd have no issue using a RF in that scenario

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828517#Comment_121828517

so as I’ve said above, rounds in my own course 40 years ago took roughly 4 hours.

rounds still take roughly 4 hours.

I suspect most clubs would be roughly the same

yes you get the odd nightmare of a day and some of the newer course may take a bit longer as they tend to be longer

but comparing like with like, 40 years on and adding in range finders, has not made rounds any longer

Golfgraffix

I’d often use my RF when putting. I’ll zap where the break point is and then zap from there to the flag. I have a small pocket log book that I can refer to for slope analysis.

slope =(y₂ - y₁)/(x₂ - x₁), where (x₁, y₁) and (x₂, y₂) are the locatins of two points on the line that I zapped.

RoadRunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121829051#Comment_121829051

In this day and age... who doesn't use that formula for slope? 🤨