Range Finders

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804009#Comment_121804009

I second that.

@Dav010 have to say you are entitled to your opinion, but you are wrong

ever hear the phrase “guns don’t kill people, people do”. Well range finders don’t slow up play, slow players slow up play

as I’ve already said, as long as players keep pace with the group in front they can do whatever they like. You had no reply to that apart from a smart unfair comment about El Guapo

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804718#Comment_121804718

Guns don’t kill people, people do.

There is a subject I never thought I would see associated with slow play on a golf course. What thought process could you possibly have to make that leap?

Anything that causes play to slow to 4 or 5 hours a round should be addressed, including repeatedly using RF on your home course. Slow play is the scourge of the game at all levels. If you are playing a round with mates, or a weekend comp on a course you know better than any other and you need a RF to take a shot, that RF can’t help you.

El Guapo!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804828#Comment_121804828

I'm baffled as to why you think it's completely unnecessary on your home course. Just because it's your home course doesn't mean you become some sort of savant who can eyeball distances and pull out the right club every time. I'm not rain man. If you are, fair play to you. But I guarantee you the lad in front of you using a rangefinder isn't holding you up. It's the lad in the bushes searching for his TopFlite like his life depends on it.

Anyway, judging by the tone of your replies to people here, it gives off the impression that you've no interest in any sort of civil discussion and anyone who disagrees with your view is immediately dismissed. It's a bad look tbh so I'll leave you to it.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804828#Comment_121804828

If it keeps one shot on the green instead of searching in the rough out the back it saves time.

If it stops people needing to walk back and forward looking for distance markers in the turf, it saves time.

It takes human error out of figuring out the distance between ball and pin.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804911#Comment_121804911

Most golfers may not know the exact yardage to the green, but seriously, you don’t need to be rain man to know what club you need to hit the green, or the turn on a dog leg, on the course you play every week.

Again, on your home course where factors such as weather conditions, slopes up or down, hardness of the green etc, render range finders virtually useless, I just don’t see the point. They just seem an obligatory piece of kit for those who want to show off that they have it, and it makes people look like a tit when having taken out their RF, made sure everyone has seen them use it, then scutter the ball, miss the green either side, leave it 20 yards short or fly the green.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804958#Comment_121804958

You are talking bo**ox now at this point.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804933#Comment_121804933

Actually that is an interesting point. Unless you have a slope function on your RF, if you rely on distance, you would be more likely to fly a down hill green, and come up short on an uphill, add wind to that and the results can be worse.

plumber77

It's a bit like aim point on the greens. Some people just take the hump with a certain groups of golfers without any stats/evidence to back it up. By the way I don't use either.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804828#Comment_121804828

I was using a metaphor FFS🤦

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804978#Comment_121804978

Well I'm lucky in that I can see with my eyes if a green is up or down hillfrom where my ball is lying.

If it's uphill I club up a bit and downhill club down a bit.

Again with the wind I have this amazing ability to tell if the wind is from behind me or into my face and adjust my club based on that.

At least with my RF I know the exact distance to the flag as my reference point, rather than guesstimate that as well.

Incidentally I've played a bit over the winter but not used my RF once, fingers are already too cold.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121805129#Comment_121805129

Fair enough, gun violence is a weird analogy to use in relation to slow play though.

blue note

I see nothing strange about the thought of shooting people coming to mind when talking about slow golfers.

slave1

Okay folks, there was no negative intention meant so ease off the drama please and back to topic

bakerbhoy

Well i have gone from being a sceptic to a convert.

The gps is not always accuarate as it depends on which sats it can triangulate from at any given moment. I will zap a flag from 20/30 yds if i cant see the bottom of said flag. I have enough skill to at least be consistantly pin high from 150 and at this stage i am beating my index at short game scoring 100 yds and in. I use any club from 6i down in this area. So yes i want to know my yardage. I am aware of pace of play and have my calc's done before it's my turn to play if possible. ie I am at my ball without interfering with my playing partners.

I play middle/back yardages as the norm so from distance the flag position decides . At my home course we use small slider flags to indicate position, and sometimes they are not where they should be.

I use the shotscope PRO L1 which is budget priced, needs a battery replacement instead of charge , slope on/off function. Decent unit.

While slow play is a pain at times, it's not always seniors , who don't wait to try hit the par 5 in two and then Arthur Scargill the fairway.

If time is an issue with some , manage it better. If you want to jog/run go running . Don't be expecting everyone to travel at the pace you want.

blackbox

I use a GPS and find it's accuracy is fine after the first few minutes it takes to acquire enough satellites.

It definitely helps my golf as I will have a much better shot if I am confident that I have the right club for the distance rather than second guessing as I am swinging. Undoubtedly, some people are better at judging distances.

It is also very useful in learning how far you can hit each club - winter and summer.

The only time it lets me down is if a course has been changed and the map hasn't been updated - not an issue for range finders.

I'd say it speeds up the game as there is less second guessing about club choice and I'd usually have looked at it while others are taking their shots.

Nothing speeds up the game as much as needing fewer strokes.

slave1

Slow players are slow and paraphernalia are irrelevant, personally I like to get to my ball in good time, quick zap from finder and as I know my distances any distance doubt is gone and I can be ready to take my shot probably quicker than looking around and guessing

VW 1

I've recently added a range finder to compliment my gps watch. As others have stated, more so for checking a bunker, hazards or dog leg from the tee to have a better idea of best club and hit a shot with full commitment.

When checking fairway to greens it's almost certainly quicker than checking for the nearest fairway marker and then trying to approximate distance to green/flag.

Golfgraffix

I would need to dig it out but there was a study done back in about 2015 that was commissioned by Bushnell (I will concede, not a great independent starting point). It was done by a Californian college and showed that among various different handicaps using a Range Finder actually resulted in fasted rounds of golf.

I am paraphrasing but the actual knowledge of real distance resulted in faster shots. So while there was an addition of extra time in taking out the RF and zapping, it was a net gain against the time it took to actually select and commit to a club.

So the scenario without RF is, eyeball flag, look at ball location in relation to a location on the hole that you know. Make best guess at distance, factor in wind, slope etc. Pull out club, at this point in nearly all shots there was a second assessment of all the parameters again and in a large proportion of the shots a second club or even a third club would be pulled out. For players playing in a buggy, there was an additional walk time at this stage.

The scenario with the RF, was almost identical but the club selection was almost immediate and did not change anywhere near as much.

There are summaries of the report online, I have the full one somewhere on an old drive, I'll see if i cam find it.

coillcam

Slow play has nothing to do with rangefinders. It's always the same things:

• Talking too much.
• Not being ready when it's your shot and not paying attention.
• Leaving trolleys on the wrong side of holes and tee boxes.
• Moving too slow.
• Searching for stray balls or someone who hits too many shots.
• Long pre-shot or putting routines.

Searching for balls is the biggest issue in my experience. Especially during winter and majors/medals. Three minutes per search and it could be on half of the holes. Generally slow players do most of the first four things in every round. If someone is slow without a rangefinder they'll be still slow with it, the same goes for any other gadget they can fumble around.

A rangefinder makes the game faster. Instant distance calculation and no trying to add/remove yards vs a distance marker. With a GPS, just pick the centre of the green and you'll be fine the majority of the time. I have both but if I had to only have one, I'd pick the rangefinder.

The fastest players I've come across are low-index or older gents who are short-hitters and physically can't spray it. Both groups rarely need to look for a stray ball and 95% of the time know what club they'll hit next. When it's their turn they are ready to go and then move on briskly.

go1f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806127#Comment_121806127

I'd second this. I haven't played enough golf, yet, to purchase a range finder or gps watch but I tried the 18birdies app at the weekend and a couple of times I asked one of my playing partners, who had a range finder, what distance they were getting and the app was pretty much spot on. Will continue to try it for the moment.

Also, I had the same issue, there were a couple of temporary greens in play which I couldn't get an accurate reading from the app.

RoadRunner

re: "18birdies app" (on phone?)

I believe you can't (or in the past couldn't) use a phone app as a rangefinder in competition, as it's technically capable of providing weather conditions such as wind direction etc. Perhaps an old rule? Anyone have anything on this nowadays?

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820101#Comment_121820101

no i think it is fine to use a phone app as a golf gps unit

as long as things like wind direction/speed and slop features are not enabled

pretty sure it's been like this for quite a number of years now, was certainly an issue in the early days but i'm pretty sure there was a rule brought in to allow it

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820101#Comment_121820101

I use Arccos on my phone / watch.

You can select Casual or Tournament before starting a round, tournament mode disables all the disallowed features like wind, club suggestion etc.

I suspect most of the apps do this now.

Seve OB

now i think of it

was it a case that clubs had to adopt some sort of local rule to allow GPS devices at one stage? but then rules of golf changed to allow it by default

Golfgraffix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820268#Comment_121820268

This is correct

FixdePitchmark

If you are looking at range finders as a cause of slow play or to speed up golf you are looking in the wrong place.

A few good posts above on like the top 10 other issues - in fact there is probably grounds for a new slow play thread in the forum. There have been many changes in the game - new players - covid / golf boom - rule changes .

About 5 years ago - GI the R&A and various clubs - had genuinely put a great body of work in to speed up play and it seemed to work at some places - Ready golf etc - became a big topic of conversation and I was somewhat positive about the way things were going.

But sadly - due to a combination of a few things - we are in a bad place again. New golfers and more golfers are all great , but we are now looking at a time were we are back to 4.5 + hours golf - and often on easy enough courses .

But you do have to realize - or I have at this stage, that there are many many golfers out there - that are perfectly happy with 4.5 hours golf - don't really want fast golf - some have changed their attitude a bit post covid - have stepped a bit away from work - and are not in a rush for anyone - and you know what, maybe they are right - seem very happy and look like they will not die soon due to stress.

The secret to golf is to find golfers - who have the same mindset - same sort of goals in the round. Playing with players who know what they are at , is a pleasure - an almost metronomic pace - 2nd player hitting almost as the other player's ball is still rolling - no delay - no faffing about or bullshit.

The issue with range finders in the wrong hands is - that players with slow routines - add this to their already slow routine - I think it was Russman here who put it well - do you ever see a player take anything out of their routine - people add to their routine - slow players add stuff to everything - at every point. They also have a tendency - to only start their stuff when the world is clear for them. Don't even stand near their bag or have a club in hand when it is their shot.

But can you change these types ? it is a personality thing ? it is how they are built ? - as a good wise friend of mine says - "do you **** think you will change him at this stage of his life "

So - is it a case of just give up. Don't play with this type of player - don't play in 4 balls with random players ? maybe ! - but that is a bit depressing for a game that should be about playing with everyone - tolerance and enjoying walk together.

I think that perhaps golf being a solo sport - attracts a certain type - people who thrive in process and data and technology - there is a tendency to overcomplicate it all. The modern data driven game seems to be moving away from the simple nature of golf. I'm a little saddened by that - part of the beauty in golf for me - was the imperfection - the lack of data - the use of eye - the simple nature of it - the fact it was somewhat the same in 1970 versus 2020 - but where are we going with tech for tech sake - data for everything - and aim point on the greens. I recently seen an amateur go to a golf course with a spirit level - all driven by a You Tube world.

But - I'm not a complete technophobic idiot - you look at all these things and say - ok this genuinely is groundbreaking and a massive help. The laser is a phenomenal advantage - and it is constant feedback and simple feedback to your mind of how far exactly you are hitting a club. No need for a GPS too - but wont get into that - anyone looking into it, get one - but please use before it is anywhere near your turn - and be quick. The modern game of 4 lads stepping up to a par 3 all having a GPS and a Laser and all measuring and talking it all over - is the perfect example of where golf is in 2023 versus even 2003 . Could one not just go - lads "flag is 145 yards (end of)" - of course all these lads have to step down off tee and then get a club after above dance and chat.

Anyway - it is a bit of a futile conversation - as my cork friend said to me - you can't fundamentally change a grown man - and should you bother. You find a form of golf that suits you - and there are loads of people out there that want 3.5 hour golf - and loads of others, that the time is of zero significance and actually adds to their enjoyment.

Now - if i had any influence on the game - the slow guys should probably play at the back of the field with the other slow lads - and the fast lads should play together in a different place or 9.

Also - we definitely need more shorter forms of golf - the move towards 9 was a great idea - but an odd WHS glitch has made that almost blacked in the data driven WHS obsessed golfers of Ireland - and now a 9 hole score is dirt.

Also - whilst i agree with the laser - lads at it from 30 yards or whatever - for **** sake - lol

What next the putting green.

Anyway - each to their own - and they won't change anyway .

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821100#Comment_121821100

Best post on the forum in months Fix !! Especially your last line !

srfc d16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121819656#Comment_121819656

Your first two points here are almost interchangeable in my experience and the things I find most frustrating in a slow round. If playing with a stranger that is telling a story and carries on with it while they are standing over their ball I want to pull my hair out. When it is a stranger it makes it more socially difficult to tell them to button it and hit the ball and finish the story while walking. I am quite a fast player and often to my detriment will end up playing faster than I should to try to make up the difference of the slow player.

I'm not as fussed about it if we are keeping pace with the group in front or it is a quiet day on the course and our pace is not affecting anyone else but am always conscious of my groups position/pace on the course.

RoadRunner

"Also - whilst i agree with the laser - lads at it from 30 yards or whatever - for **** sake - lol"

______

Good post. To play devils advocate for a second.. what distance is it okay or not okay to laser from? If another golfers personal choice and strategy is different to your own opinion does that make them wrong or does that just make the golfer doing the criticising intolerant? If we accept that lasers speed up play at long distances, is it inconsistent to criticize laser use at short range?

Why draw a line of acceptable use, and where do you draw the line?

>100 yards okay?

70 yards or 40 yards?

Perhaps it's just a little uncool within a certain distance? It's certainly not outside rules and promotes fast play as is the perception here on laser usage.

One of the best things about golf is that everyone sees and plays the game differently, whether through reason of age, body shape, fitness levels, sex, cultural background, eyesight... a million different variables affect a players tactics. Phil plays lefty despite being right handed, Speith looks at the hole sometimes when sinking putts at certain ranges, there's a guy on my home course that chips with only his right hand at certain ranges. The differences between how players play the game (once they keep pace!) are part of the magic of the game. We're moving on from the old guard of golfers subscribing wholeheartedly to groupthink, insisting that everything should only be done according to the precise style and method that they themselves would do it. This fosters a lack of diversity, but worse, those people who love the game are missing out on the magic of it 😅

Seve OB

i recall a post by our esteemed colleague @GreeBo on this very subject a number of years ago where I questioned the merit of lasering from about 50 yards.

I'm paraphrasing here (because to be honest I've better things to do right now than search for the post, but I might look it up later on) but he argued that the alternative was to pace it out.