A Question for Muslims?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787685#Comment_121787685

Exactly, thank you - moderate Muslims adhere to; Islamists advocate. Very clear distinction. Also, Muslims are not "dedicated to realizing their ideological interpretation of Islam within the context of the state or society." - they just worship a different God/prophet and get on with their lives without bothering any state of society.

So you accept your potato/potato post was bullshit and you have an accurate distiniction between the terms you requested and we're done here.

halkar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787593#Comment_121787593

Says who? You can't compare Afghanistan to Turkey or Saudi Arabia to Malaysia. Sharia law is nothing more than man made medieval gibberish which is being used, forced and abused on Muslims.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787557#Comment_121787557

I never understand why they can't spell boy properly

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787393#Comment_121787393

People love quoting this Pew survey, yet they're not so fond of acknowledging that it was conducted 12-16 years ago, and via face to face interview in the respondents place of residence. Anyone aware of these facts would probably be less willing to quote same given the age of the poll, and the fact that societal pressures would be exerted on the respondents - If I believe my answers may be overhead by my parents/husband/wife children then of course I'm going to give the 'right' answer; "Pew researcher Jim Bell acknowledged the difficulties of conducting the survey in countries where such topics may be sensitive or have what he called "socially desirable answers."

But hey, feel free to pluck out data that supports your view, without bothering to explore context.

One final point - With all this reference to Shari'a can you (or anyone else) point me to a singular document that fully defines Shari'a law, states how it is to be understood and instituted, and is agreed on by every Muslim in the world? I won't hold my breath.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787703#Comment_121787703

... in the same way any devotee adheres to whatever their faith is...?

Seriously, can you just look up these answers for yourself instead of asking me? Because it's pretty basic and easy-to-access knowledge. You did it last time.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787616#Comment_121787616

Have you ever met a Muslim person? Or even spent time in a Muslim country?

Actually, don't bother, it's fairly obvious

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787754#Comment_121787754

Plus muslims want aspects of Sharia to be recognised. This happens for Catholicism too. If you get married in Catholicism in Ireland, the marriage isn't legally recognized. You need a civil service too. But in other jurisdictions a catholic marriage is recognized because the priests have been given the power to perform both civil and religious ceremonies.

When a muslim says they want sharia law to be recognized by the state, they're not talking about taliban or ISIS type stuff, they're talking about civil laws. Stuff about marriage, death, property etc. And there's places in the west where this is actually done.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787779#Comment_121787779

This is the guy who thinks every muslim MUST adhere to strict Sharia Law or they can't be a muslim, so yeah - pretty obvious.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787803#Comment_121787803

And that's just not as exciting/deceptive as 'All Muslims want to chop our heads off'.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787616#Comment_121787616

I'm very good friends with a moderate Muslim from Egypt and she doesn't wear a hijab no, she doesn't pray five times a day, she does drink alcohol and she does smoke a lot of weed.

One thing she doesn't do quite strictly is eat pork.

She's about as Muslim as most of this country is Catholic.

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787820#Comment_121787820

Pretty much every Muslim person I've met lol. Every Saudi I've met has been an atheist too but culturally Muslim as they grow up in that environment. The people in power use the religion to stay in power and control the place with an iron fist in most of these countries. You can tell a lot of the anti muslim sentiment is from people who don't know any of them. Just my opinion. Of course theres a hard line element but that's a small percentage.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787807#Comment_121787807

Don't ask me, ask the Quran?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787946#Comment_121787946

Yeah - like you've read the Quran! :D

Mikey, you started this thread with a bullshit question and you got honest answers that you replied to with more generalised bullshit regarding Sharia Law and the Quran.

I'm of the opinion that you think every religious person on the planet is a fundamenalist who only believes in the literal interpretation of their holy book of choice, because you get your news from Twitter and Facebook and have no intention of actually listening to something objective, let alone talking to Muslims because - lets be honest - you're too scared of what you'll find out: that not every religious adherent is a fundamenalist and most keep their worship to themselves.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787754#Comment_121787754

Firstly do you think the muslim world has gotten more liberal in the last 12 to 16 years ?

Yes or No

Secondly good luck trying to ask some people this in the street in some countries.

You might have a lot better chance of getting an honest answer in someones home than in public, don't you think?

Are you seriously trying to argue that a majority of muslims do not want sharia ?

Someone else earlier said that sharia was "medieval gibberish which is being used, forced and abused on Muslims" as if muslims have nothing at all to do with it's adoption and implementation.

The mind boggles, but then again this is the mindset that often thinks if only we bring all these people over here from their backward thinking hell hole they will suddenly see the light and be on the next pride march.

Egypt should have been a light bulb moment for these folks, because the moment they got to have free elections they elect the very backward thinking muslim brotherhood.

Then again those lads have lots of excusors in this country.

No one can can point you to one single document for sharia (and I can't be bothered trawling internet for you).

There are different sects of islam, differences based on societal cultures, different teaching from imams and islamic scholars.

There is also issue I alluded to earlier about there not being any centralised control so there aint no Vatican library to go consult.

So no there is no single agreed document every single muslim will agree with.

But you knew that before you asked, so stop playing silly games.

I am sure that someone of your knowledge are aware that the much vaunted European Court of Human Rights has

"already stated in Refah Partisi (The Welfare Party) and others v. Turkey that the institution of Sharia law and a theocratic regime are incompatible with the requirements of a democratic society."

And the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembley found with relation to human rights convention ...

"Sharia rules on, for example, divorce and inheritance proceedings are clearly incompatible with the Convention, in particular its Article 14, which prohibits discrimination on grounds such as sex or religion, and Article 5 of Protocol No. 7 to the Convention (ETS No. 117), which establishes equality between marital partners. Sharia law is also in contradiction with other provisions of the Convention and its additional protocols, including Article 2 (right to life), Article 3 (prohibition of torture or inhuman or degrading treatment), Article 6 (right to a fair trial), Article 8 (right to respect for private and family life), Article 9 (freedom of thought, conscience and religion), Article 10 (freedom of expression), Article 12 (right to marry), Article 1 of the Protocol to the Convention (ETS No. 9) (protection of property) and Protocols Nos. 6 (ETS No. 114) and 13 (ETS No. 187) abolishing the death penalty."

BTW @Grayson some of those little things you say muslims want sharia recognised for like laws around property, marriage, death (inheritance) have been found by ECHR to be incompatible with the human rights convention as per above.

So what say you?

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787817#Comment_121787817

True.

It's like someone out there decided that nuance was too complicated so they took Osama Bin laden and said "Let's make him our stereotypical muslim". :)

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787820#Comment_121787820

That's the thing, she doesn't eat pork because the book says so, that's exactly what it means to be radical - or, moderately radical if you want to. The reason pork was forbidden is not valid anymore, today's farmed pork is actually cleaner and safer than chicken. As for the weed, that's not unusual in islamic countries, because the book doesn't forbid it weed and hash is consumed by people who don't drink, again, because they follow the book by the letter and not spirit.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788242#Comment_121788242

Its technically not banned in the Bible either, but then neither is masturbation, meat on ash Wedesday/Good Fridat, gay sex and a lot of other things that Christians still do.

As far as I know (open to correction because the Muslims I know have differing viewpoints) cannabis is officially considered haraam on the basis that it's in the same category as alcohol or any other "pollutant" that can be ingested. That said, most of them don't take the Quran literally anyway.

I'm still of the idea that quoting the Holy Book of choice is the be-all and end-all for every modern particiant of said religion is a pretty vague and somewhat false idea.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788242#Comment_121788242

If following the rules of an old book make you radical, then anyone who follows a religious text in one way or another is radical. That's not really the case now is it?

You also seemed to completely skip over the part of my post about alcohol?

Jack Daw

The current Mayor of London Sadiq Khan famously said "Moderate muslims are Uncle Toms"

Labour MP Naz Shah retweeted a twitter comment which said people should keep quiet about the Muslims grooming gangs in UK for the good of diversity.

This indicates that both of the above are not trustworthy in any way to keep their religious beliefs completely private and not influence their decisions in public

I don't think many people give a fiddlers about whatever religious gobbledygook people want to believe and practice on their own time and in their own homes and places of worship.

They do however care when they feel that public representatives views are influenced by religious concerns and when religious concerns may have to be pandered to.

Western Europe has already pretty much defeated one religion in the last 50 years and has become almost completely secular (christianity has very little influence on anything in europe these days) , it doesn't need religious concerns from another religion being taken into consideration when it's done so well to rid itself of christianity.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787820#Comment_121787820

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787866#Comment_121787866

firstly you ignore the concept of Taqiyya or Muda'rat (depending on your branch of islam)

which leads to the concepts of :

Taysir & Muruna & Darura

figure that out and see who you feel

ask yourself why are muslims in britian rallying about to push for a muslim bloc in the house of commons.

because we know that will only be for the benefit of the entire society esp the white christian english who should be delighted at this

Beta Ray Bill

If you have ever read parts of the Quran or study religion, you've come to realise that Islam is "On Paper" the most accepting, peaceful and inclusive of the three major religions.

The Quran teaches:

You have your own relationship with God, and anyone can be Muslim

Respect all others

Violence is never the answer (even if someone is being violent towards you)

Respect animals and nature

Love family

It has however been twisted and turned throughout history into this rightwing nutcase thing we have now and people are fearful of it.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788350#Comment_121788350

If it answers your question, a radical Christian is someone who doesn't steal because there is a commandment in the bible saying that stealing is forbidden, and not because it's the wrong thing to do.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788726#Comment_121788726

why pick stealing? murder is also a commandment. you saying christians would be killing for the craic without it?

Hungry Burger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058336813/a-question-for-muslims

How are the social welfare benefits in The UAE?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121788726#Comment_121788726

Plenty of radical Christians believe in the death penalty despite the sixth commandment clearly stating "thou shalt not kill", so the idea of radical being pious or even consistent is bogus.

mikeybhoy

There's a Muslim family from Pakistan that live a couple of doors up from me. They have about 7 or 8 children, the wife wears a full burka and all the daughters some as young as 6 all wear the hijab. They very much keep themselves to themselves although they seem friendly enough when I've said hello to them.

Why would a family like this want to live in Ireland when they clearly don't appear to want to integrate into Irish life like the rest of us. Would not be more at home back in Pakistan or another Muslim country.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789124#Comment_121789124

Why don't you ask them, the next time you're saying hello?

Then you'll know for sure.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789124#Comment_121789124

'they clearly don't appear to want to integrate into Irish life like the rest of us'

In what way?

Are all Irish people exactly the same?