A Question for Muslims?

mikeybhoy

Was looking at X this evening and a very good question came up. So there are 49 predominantly Muslim countries in the world okay. So if you practice Islam and want to live under Sharia law why in gods name would you want to come to live in Ireland or any other Western Christian country for that matter when there's 49 countries that support your ideology and way of life, why come and live in one that doesn't?

Timfy

I think, and I am not a muslim so feel free to ignore, that should you be a muslim with only a moderate following of your faith (such as 99% of Irish Catholics) and you are homosexual or against the right wing tendencies of your church or indeed one of a million different reasons then moving to another country that does not put the death penalty on your beliefs makes perfect sense.

Thelonious Monk

Maybe because Muslims can freely practice any religion in Ireland, while also getting to live in a peaceful, rich country with far more opportunities? Pretty obvious to me really.

I would imagine most Muslims aren't hardcore either. One Dutch/Moroccan friend of mine drinks and parties and acts like we do but still has some kind of Muslim faith.

I.R.Y.E.D

The same reason why Irish Christians go live in predominantly Muslim countries.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786385#Comment_121786385

Okay fair enough but nearly every Christian I know doesn't practice yet every Muslim I've ever met tells me they go to the mosque every Friday, doesn't drink or eat pork, does Ramadan and reads the quran. Yet 90% of Irish people I know doesn't go to mass on Sunday, read or the bible or partake in Lent.

That doesn't make sense any sense to me if you're gay why would you practice a religion that clearly hates you. Is it even possible to be a gay Muslim?

macchoille

My guess is the majority that come here would be moderate to maybe liberal, it’s some of the second generation that then get a bit radicalised.

mikeybhoy

So read this a Tunisian iman living in France thinks is against the Tricolour. If he hates living in a non Muslim country so much why doesn't he just return to Tunisia where he'll never have to look at a Tricolour. https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1759224563198534001?t=6aJ_vqsuz7ePBasdkHLCxg&s=19

Strumms

Even moderate Muslim countries like the UAE are a lot more strict than Ireland…. In terms of freedoms we can do pretty much everything and anything here… so the appeal is natural I’d guess.

silliussoddius

Something similar to Irish going to Britain to work and then donating to certain cultural organization.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786439#Comment_121786439

One bloke out of the probably millions of Muslims in France. Not quite sure what you want out this thread apart from getting your point across that they should f*ck off home.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786394#Comment_121786394

Is your friend your aware that drinking alcohol is punishable by 40 lashes under Sharia law?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786439#Comment_121786439

Yep haha. I’m pretty sure he knew there’d be a tricolor there, before he got there…. Just stirring the pot

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058336813/a-question-for-muslims

They simply don't mind the concept of separation of church and state. There's a myriad of reasons beyond that too I imagine. Feel like your mind will be blown that there are in fact LGBT Muslims as well. Plenty of people simply have a different attitudes to the strictness of religious practices etc and others end up with their own interpretation of their faith. Irish Catholics should be well aware of this....

Overheal

"Was looking at X this evening and a very good question came up."

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786505#Comment_121786505

It makes no sense to me that someone would follow a religion that wants them executed. If I was gay there's not a hope in hell I'd still follow Islam and call myself a Muslim.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786418#Comment_121786418

Perhaps you need to get out a bit then and broaden your mind! You seem to think religion and sexual orientation dominates everyone’s life….. The simple answer is it doesn’t, people move to other countries for all sorts of reasons - family, opportunities, work, education and so on…. Things for some reason you can’t comprehend.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786531#Comment_121786531

True but yet they still set up mosques here

Ten of Swords

Mod - Can we have a proper, mature, constructive discussion about this topic or will I just close it up now?

@mikeybhoy @Thelonious Monk looking in your direction...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058336813/a-question-for-muslims

So if you practice Islam and want to live under Sharia law why in gods name would you want to come to live in Ireland or any other Western Christian country

They don't - they tend to stay where they are. The ones who move to the west tend to be more relaxed about their religion, while still retaining their faith.

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Robert Nairac

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058336813/a-question-for-muslims

Islamists want to conquer, not coexist. Spreading Islam/conquering territory is part of their ideology.

CalamariFritti

never mind

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786385#Comment_121786385

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786394#Comment_121786394

You both are extremely naive.

silliussoddius

For a while canon law seemed predominant in Ireland, there must have been an exodus to Rome.

Rubberchikken

A person can want to enjoy all the things Ireland offers and still practice their religion.

Lots of Catholics did this back when the church here was very dominant.

I.will be honest and say that I would like to see people, regardless of religion, integrate themselves when they arrive here. I don't mean change religion, just accept that you're in a different country now with different ways and fit in and accept that.

The idea of little versions of other countries springing up around the place doesn't appeal.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786526#Comment_121786526

You have very little control over what you believe. Aside from choosing what information streams to expose yourself to, you're basically not in the driving seat at all I'm afraid.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058336813/a-question-for-muslims

Not ever Muslim wants to live under Sharia law.

they can easily follow their faith and live in a western society

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786418#Comment_121786418

Of course it is. There are LGBT Catholics and there are LGBT Muslims.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786534#Comment_121786534

As I said you really need to get out more and open your eyes.... you'll be surprised at all those religions buildings peppered around the country.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786602#Comment_121786602

So in other words it's just like all the other religions out there, or have you never met an evangelist of any type???? I went to a very unusual school back in the 60s - A mixed secondary school run by the Presentation Sisters and the Reverend Mother there believed it was important that we studied all seven religions - a dam pity there were not more like her.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058336813/a-question-for-muslims

Not every Muslim country is a strict Islamic country.

Not every Muslim is a strict Muslim.

You would think you might know that, given the way Catholics practise their religion in this country. Or are Muslims just so different to every other person in the world?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786485#Comment_121786485

You have a remarkable lack of understanding of something you started a thread on. Embarrassing.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786602#Comment_121786602

Same goes for a lot of christians. The evangelicals in the US are the worst of the lot.

BTW, what defines a muslim is the 5 pillars of islam. Everything else is optional depending on the sect. Same as christianity. To be a christian all you have to do is recognize jesus as your lord and savior. After that there's so many interpretations and beliefs that it's impossible to group them all together. There's some that believe in LGBT rights and then there's some that are on thae far end of the scale and believe LGBT people should be stones because it's in the old testament.

In islam there's literally hundreds of subdivisions. Even the largest groups like Sunni and Shia have many subdivisions. And within those divisions there's different levels of belief and piety and adherence to those rules.

I really hate it when people refer to muslims as a monolithic zombie block. Like they're all the same and are all mindless adherents to the exact same beliefs.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786765#Comment_121786765

Which is perfectly fine.Its the ones who move to western countries and then complain their religion isn't respected enough and want their religious views reflected in how western society operates, ones who use their religion to gain political influence, who try and get political parties to appeal to "the Muslim vote" , we've seen this in the UK. There are a sizeable and vocal minority like this.You don't like the west don't move to a westernised country.

People need to keep their faith a private thing , keep it for their home and their place of worship, it shouldn't have any place or influence on society outside of that.

jmayo

People need to understand islam is not a religion like Christianity.

It is an ideology that can govern your entire existence.

It doesn't have a head that can drive change like the catholic church or church of England which then makes change difficult.

And added to that the Koran and Hadith, which constitute the religions core, cannot be changed according to most scholars.

They might be room to try put a slant on them, but the koran is supposedly the words of Allah as revealed to Muhammad and thus cannot be changed.

You will find Westerners that support islam continously argue that muslims don't want sharia law.

Yet the Pew Research Centre on the other hand has research from 39 countries, all the countries bar Western Europe that have major muslim populations, which found overwhelming percentages of muslims in many countries want sharia law to be the official law of the land.

Now the only positive thing was that some supporters of sharia say it should apply only to their country’s muslim population and some of them weren't too gone on the hardcore punishments like stonings, limb amputation, etc.

A survey in Britain a few years back found a majority of muslims in favour of sharia law, so it aint just the ones in majorily islamic states.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786493#Comment_121786493

I find it funny just how intolerant some people of a certain perceived tolerant view really are.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786789#Comment_121786789

The islamic world is real famous for those pride marches.🙄

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786542#Comment_121786542

The attacks on mainland Europe tend to contradict that.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787417#Comment_121787417

well he's banging on about sharia law and my mate getting 40 lashes for having a few beers, ridiculous, as if every muslim or catholic or whatever are the exact same. all you rural mass going lot are going to hell too i'm sure, if the strict rules of catholicism aren't abided by.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058336813/a-question-for-muslims

Your username has bhoy in it, usually associated with Celtic fans, why can't you support an Irish team?

Incoming "I don't support Celtic"

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786648#Comment_121786648

A lot of people think - wrongly IMO - that Catholicism IS Irish. So no, they wouldn't go to Rome. They just tried to force us all to be "better" Irish people by being us all be more catholic.

Although of course Muslims think that everyone is a sort of Muslim-in-waiting (they call conversion to Islam "reversion" because they think it's the natural order. It seems to be their equivalent of saying that Man is Fallen) so perhaps that explains why those who want to live under Sharia law still move to places where there is no Sharia: maybe they reckon that if enough of them go to all those "fallen" countries, they'll be able to push the balance in the right direction??

(Just a thought, I don't actually know this of course. But it's an interesting question.)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787532#Comment_121787532

.... by muslims who came to Europe for that exact reason and not the reason put forward in the Opening Post.

They don't come over to Europe looking for a free life in a rich country and then suddenly become terrorists. The overwhelming majority or moderate in their outlook.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787544#Comment_121787544

Sharia law is one of the core fundamental principles of Islam. If you don't follow Sharia law can you even call yourself a Muslim?

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787557#Comment_121787557

And your point is?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787590#Comment_121787590

No that isn't right. Some did, but eg the Bataclan killers, were mostly people who grew up in those or neighbouring countries. Same with the July 7th bombers in England, as I recall.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786602#Comment_121786602

I beleive the question was why do Muslims come to Europe, not why do Islamists come to Europe.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787593#Comment_121787593

i'm sure you can if you want, muslims are not all the same, plenty of so called catholics out there have sex before marriage and there are lots of gay priests. religion is f*cking ridiculous really.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787595#Comment_121787595

You're a hypocrite.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787590#Comment_121787590

How moderate is moderate? Do moderate Muslims go to the Mosque every Friday? Do moderate Muslims wear a hijab (if female)? Do moderate Muslims pray five times a day? Do moderate Muslims refuse to eat pork/drink alcohol? Do moderate Muslim only eat Halal meat?

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Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787600#Comment_121787600

Of course it's right - do you know what the Muslim population of Europe? And do you know what precentage of those Muslis are leading happy peaceful law-abiding lives?