March 8th - What’s your vote? **Mod Note In Post #677**

Oscar_Madison

NO to both.

No clear compelling reason to change wording - ironically had it been slipped into a more important referendum it would likely have been passed - too many questions and too little and unclear answers

Annasopra

Voting YES for both

Good summary thread here about why many disabled people are calling for a No on the care referendum

https://twitter.com/AlannahEMurray/status/1764572619880222733?t=1zLu1iJw0f0h4cp7QGriYw&s=19

KevMayo88

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849027#Comment_121849027

It was actually The Tonight Show in an exchange with Clare Brock:

Neal Richmond: “And this is what I want to get to the key point of, changing what the definition of family is ... this has serious consequences particularly when we think of immigration law, and proving that somebody is a family member, family law, family reunification this will allow that to happen as well, so we’re keeping up to pace with other communities.”

Clare Brock: “So you’re talking about durable relationships?”

Neil Richmond: “Absolutely, yeah”.

Annasopra

Voting YES for both

Good thread clarifying a lot about the family referendum and highlighting the scaremongering nonsense

https://twitter.com/wendylyon/status/1764314126648492523?t=K9EiRNENvIZtgoOLJy17QA&s=19

dulpit

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849027#Comment_121849027

The fact that this is being brought up tells me the mask is off for the no side - the typical no immigrants message...

xzanti

Voting NO for both

No to both!

KevMayo88

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849147#Comment_121849147

Richmond specifically said the amendment could be used to bring yet even more immigrants into Ireland- I think we have far too many as it is, and I certainly won't be voting for anything that could be used to exasserbate the situation going forward. Ireland needs less immigration, not more.

jackofalltrades

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849147#Comment_121849147

That's nonsense and you know it.

Having concerns that this referendum could have unintended consequences for family reunification doesn't make you anti-immigrant.

Especially when we've had a previous referendum had lead to unintended consequences for immigration.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849071#Comment_121849071

I'm currently undecided on both and I'm looking for something that would provide some clarity; was hoping the link above would but there's really not much in it e.g. the "slide" about the suggested wording from the citizens assembly isn't actually wording that could have been put into the constitution.

I'd love some information on what specifically will happen in terms of X, Y, Z (e.g. tax, care obligations, etc.) that are not happening now but would be allowed to happen if the votes are passed.

From what I can gather so far, neither vote will really have much practical impact whatsoever

EmmetSpiceland

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849475#Comment_121849475

I have a couple of friends who have children with disabilities and they are going to vote no because they’re concerned about the level of supports and funding and how a Yes vote might impact them but that doesn’t have anything to do with the referendum.

Even that Alannah O’Neill link above doesn’t seem to involve the referendum. This isn’t about funding or supports. All that is up for changing is the scope of who carers can be.

Then others seem to think it’s like the Nice Treaty and will be improved and offered again if it’s defeated but considering the lack of government appetite to even run this one there is pretty much no chance we’ll see this again if it doesn’t go through. I would suggest that a Yes vote, with a convincing majority, would show the government that the people are very interested in improving care within the state.

Annasopra

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849475#Comment_121849475

Dr Maeve O'Rourke and Mairead Enright have written more specifics re care. You won't get anything really specific on tax implications.

https://maeveorourke.medium.com/a-right-to-care-and-the-care-referendum-on-8-march-9d6bdc7834ba

https://ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/womens-invisible-labour-kinkeeping-and-care-irelands-8-march-constitutional-referendum/

Dazler97

I don't know what I'm voting for ,I'll do research this week as I don't wanna vote blind etc

Glaceon

I am voting NO (family amendment)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849424#Comment_121849424

Immigration didn't come into it for me at all. I just feel that "durable relationship" is too ambiguous and could have unintended consequences.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849562#Comment_121849562

Thanks, that first link provides a pretty clear summary of the No position on the Care referendum IMO

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849561#Comment_121849561

I guess that's a big question - would a No vote result in an "improved offer"? I probably agree that it wouldn't in the short/medium term anyway, once you get into the details of the actual wording of these things, it can be a lot more difficult than you'd think as the current govt have found out. If the referenda are rejected, I'm not sure there'll be a massive appetite from politicians to go after it again

Gloomtastic!

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849475#Comment_121849475

The Citizens Assembly put forward their proposals to the government but apparently the Attorney General had a problem with them so changed them to the mess we have now.

AyeGer

I’ve decided to go No for both. The durable relationship is far too vague. I’m not sure what exactly the motivation is to even have this vote in the first place. If it’s really important they'll have us vote again and they might address some of the concerns people have.

EmmetSpiceland

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849715#Comment_121849715

Neither amendment goes far enough, in my opinion, but they’re going far enough to remove the church influenced nonsense of the women in the home and the sole carer so I’m voting for that.

The poor state care, or support, is a fight for another day. A No vote won’t be getting this government to rethink anything, they’ll just be glad to be shot of something they barely care about that was landed on them by the citizens’ assembly.

KevMayo88

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121849979#Comment_121849979

"...the church influenced nonsense of the women in the home"- try actually reading the existing passage in the constitution.

EmmetSpiceland

Voting YES for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121850070#Comment_121850070

I have the “independent guide” in front of me, has a very simple explanation of what is there, what is proposed and what will change.

Here, how come the MRAs aren’t fighting for a Yes vote? They, usually, get their backs up when women get something they don’t.

The Care Amendment is a prime example of women having rights, or responsibilities, that men don’t have. Time for equality.

Danny Drier

Vote No to both and try and preserve a bit of normalcy in the country.

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791913#Comment_121791913

Has anyone managed to find out this answer? It will be a firm no for me if we have no legal definition of "durable relationship".

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121843154#Comment_121843154

Revenue only allows joint tax assessment for married couples or civil partners.

But Dept of Social Protection evaluates cohabiting couples jointly when means testing for benefits.

The State has it both ways in its favour there.

I'm reading this referendum booklet and it is truly woeful. No examples given on the impacts of a yes or no vote.

road_high

Voting NO for both

Looking increasingly like a No No- Varadkar looked and sounded absolutely pathetic and desperate today - speaking from his “safe space” in ranelagh. Seems they’ve given up completely on middle Ireland- concentrating completely on what they represent- the south Dublin bourgeoisie

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dulpit

Voting YES for both

For the people advocating a Yes/No - is the primary issue with the care wording that it doesn't go far enough? Or is there something specifically wrong with the wording that will make things worse? I ask as the father of a child with intellectual disabilities and my initial reading of the wording doesn't look like it will change anything for us (positively or negatively).

HerrKapitan

Voting YES for both

Public funds would be best spent on more important things. It will cost millions more for a re-run referendum so the responsible vote would be a YES - YES and have it over and done with.

Oscar_Madison

Wow- 61% voting no to both on this thread poll so far.

Id be in agreement with No x 2 also. The argument's to vote yes are weak and the unintended consequences of a yes vote are unknown at best - it’s a complete distraction from the serious issues of the state and the economy right now.

My only concern is, will the No voters stay away out of apathy? I could see the final result being a lot closer than 60:40 and potentially at least one motion passed.

This is it

Voting NO for both

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121851938#Comment_121851938

I'm not advocating for either side but I'd say it's irresponsible to vote based on the costs to run the referendum.