Motorists patients

gerarda

Just wanted to ask if any new bike riders (still on learner permit) had any bad experiences with motorists while getting used to the bike? Obviously you can't ride along doing 30 in an 80 zone wondering why cars behind you are getting impatient.

JP 1800

I have had it plenty of times. Incidents of being over taken on sharp bends, times when the road surface has been gravelly and dangerously uneven(Roundwood) and people failing to stop at stop signs. Just the other day I had a Dublin bus driver blast onto a roundabout whilst I was already on it. She had to jamb on the brakes and I had to make an evasive maneuver. When on the bike you need to ride defensively and watch junctions, stop signs and roundabouts. The standard of driving is appalling and getting worse. It is down to phone use and other distractions along with poor road craft. I always ride at the posted limit where appropriate however if the road conditions dictate I will slow down a bit. Other drivers may not appreciate the road conditions and speed inappropriately.

Skill Magill

As you gain more experience you'll barely notice the gobshites on the road, you'll switch from driving defencefully to aggressively without thinking about it, depending on the situation. You won't even get angry or mention near disasters to your mates, once you can control the bike and know its and your limitations you won't even think about it after.

There was a huge dumbing down on road safety post covid, that I did notice :)

Mad_Lad

I took my first ride from Carlow to Kilkenny , I left it down in Baldricks to do some work and I probably won't have it back for a few weeks but boy do I miss it already. I started on local back roads to get used to it and bends and all that.

I have to admit I was pretty nervous of the thoughts of riding that distance in one go but anyway, down I went out the old N9 and I didn't go beyond 80 Km/hr, the road was pretty quiet but eventually 3 or 4 cars were behind me, driving pretty close but I kept to the centre line as advised in the iBT for the reason that cars will pass you and basically force you off the road if you give them room and it was good advice and I was told never ride in the shoulder because you don't know what crap is on the surface, again, good advice. They eventually overtook me.

I didn't think 80 in a 100 zone is too slow, the speed limit is a max limit not a target to be broken and people should have respect for others regardless the speed they're going.

I really believe there should be more ads to make drivers aware about why motorcyclists ride near the white line and why they won't be pushed over. Driver awareness is what's needed. We see plenty of adds about making space for cyclists.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947496#Comment_121947496

I didn't think 80 in a 100 zone is too slow

If you are holding up traffic you have to pull over to let them pass.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947590#Comment_121947590

Fro the rules of the road section page 73

https://www.rsa.ie/services/learner-drivers/resources/rules-of-the-road

A single broken yellow line along the side of the road

This road contains a hard shoulder, which is normally only for pedestrians and cyclists. If a driver wants to allow a vehicle behind them to overtake, they may pull in to the hard shoulder briefly (but do not continue driving in the hard shoulder) as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are already using it and no junctions or entrances are nearby. Different rules exist for hard shoulders on motorways. See Section 11 for details.

It doesn't say you have to only says you can, I'm a new rider, was told shouldn't be riding in the shoulder really.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947918#Comment_121947918

You can pull over and stop or you can do what HGV drivers do and dip into the hard shoulder to let the traffic pass you. You shouldn't be holding up traffic, there's more chance of another road user making a risky overtake if you don't let them past when it's safe.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948032#Comment_121948032

Could do but I remember on IBT them saying not to do this that the shoulder can be full of crap and to ride near the center line so everyone isn't constantly passing.

Breezin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948032#Comment_121948032

Driving at 80 in a 100 zone, where that is appropriate for conditions and circumstances, is not 'holding up traffic'.

If someone decides to make a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre, that's on them.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949508#Comment_121949508

I said if you are holding up traffic let them pass, if you are holding up traffic you aren't doing an appropriate speed.

The pass may be on them but a bike is going to come off worse. Safe riding, or driving, isn't always about "I'm in the right so feck everyone else" it's about getting home safely. No point in being Dead and right.

Breezin

It's about safety, not about being in the right, or ego.

If someone is acting the dick and driving too close behind, then the proper advice to a novice would not be to match that person's desired speed — there will very often be someone who wants to go faster than is safe.

The appropriate response is not to go faster than is safe. It is to find somewhere suitable to pull in briefly and let them away. I do it all the time.

Sir Galahad

Are you wearing a yellow tabard with an L on it ? Do motorists know you’re a learner ?

gerarda

Yes, i have to as its the law. They drive right up behind you but there is not enough room to pass, people have no patients.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948032#Comment_121948032

The speed limit is a max limit not a target, all road users should be patient and considerate towards others, I'm still being pushed off the road doing 60 in a 60 Zone and 80 in an 80 zone, ffs, people just need to chill. If I was doing 60 in an 100 Zone that's different but 80 in a 100 Zone, that's not holding anyone up.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949508#Comment_121949508

Yes exactly, thanks, there's so much emphasis on speed today, cars are faster, more powerful than ever, so refined now people hardly think they're moving at high speeds and think 80 Km/h is crawling.

emo72

Lads your on a bike, just pull over enough to let them pass. You don't need to go into a hard shoulder, just pull a bit to the left and let them go. It's not rules and regulations, it's common sense, your allowed to use it. Anyway have a great bank holiday Monday.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958926#Comment_121958926

You're correct they don't have any patients but cars are so powerful now a slight tap on the accelerator they can gain a lot of speed in a very short space of time compared to even 10 years ago never mind 20, speed and phone use and now cars are full of screens and menus to do basic things like climate control, constantly distracted, Bikes now also have screens and menus, I don't think it's a good idea.

Cars are getting bigger and bigger, much more powerful and it seems electric cars are getting more and more powerful as the tax on a 500 Hp EV is the same as the tax on a 120 Hp EV. There's no big tax on big powerful electrics, the cars themselves are getting a lot larger , where does it end ?

Back roads have 80 Km/h limits , many of them you have to stop and pull in to allow other cars to pass, I see them regularly speed where I live because the limit is 80 and sure enough many will aim for that as much as possible.

People are just gone a bit insane where no one else matters except their needs, if I'm riding as a new rider at 80, I'm doing so because that's what I feel safe at until I get more experience and confidence, I don't do it to hold anyone up.

But I will take the advise about pulling in, I mean I am only learning but I was just following the advice I was given on the IBT.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961901#Comment_121961901

I hear the same BS from the RSA all the time. Unfortunately every time I've had an RSA employee in a vehicle with me I've had to drive to the limit, or over as the EU requires speedos to over state the speed, or else get marked down for progression. Actions speak louder than words and the RSA doesn't believe it's own BS.

If people are driving too close behind you let them past instead of blocking them regardless of the you being at the speed limit or 30km/h below it, let them get caught speeding as unless you are a Garda it's not your job to police the road.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121962503#Comment_121962503

Yeah but why are people so agressive in the first place ? what gives them the right to feel they can force me or anyone else off the road ?

Using your same logic I should drive 80 Km/h on my local back roads that you can hardly drive 50 Km/h because someone behind feels I'm holding them up.

But as I said I'm new to riding so appreciate all opinions.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963763#Comment_121963763

People are assholes, ask anyone who works in a public facing job, and when they get on the roads they become worse.

Never ride, or drive, faster than you are comfortable. Just let the assholes past when you can as you are safer with them ahead of you than behind you.

granturismo

Patience.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964538#Comment_121964538

Cheers for that, yeah I will definitely let them pass now alrgiht,

And you're correct they're assholes at the best of times and people are getting worse.

as a driver I always appreciate why people do not always drive “up to the limit”. You get there no quicker in the end by speeding in your car, you only increase wear on it and consume more power. I’m happy to drive behind slower traffic, the only thing is the way drivers queue up right behind, trying to put pressure on you to overtake when it’s against your better judgement on a segment of road.

Tombo2001

Interesting as a cyclist to see a lot of similar experience on this discussion.

Couple of points - its within the speed limit & its not safe. This is all over the country, roads with speed limits that are routinely 20km/hr too high. 80k zones that should be 60k and so on.

I dont know who decides on these things, dont know how the decision is made.

A consequence is that it makes a dangerous driving conviction for speeding very difficult - its only legally dangerous when its above the speed limit (and recorded as such).

Second, in terms of driver attitude - have no doubt that when accident occurs, you'll be blamed, motorbikes are dangerous, the roads are dangerous. But not cars.

The press and social media narrative around traffic so-called accidents gives drivers a free pass. The pedestrian wasnt wearing hi-viz. The cyclist wasnt wearing a helmet. The cyclist collided with a car. And so on.

So of course drivers arent checking themselves, its already the other guys fault.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965041#Comment_121965041

It's intimidation, they want to get me out of the way by driving up my ass.

It will be interesting to see how it goes during my trip home from Baldricks in Kilkenny in a week or 2. That will be my 2nd long trip !

I learned to fly a plane before I learned to drive a car. Procedure is instilled into you, you get from A to B in the safest way, with lots of provisos built in before any trip, particularly “what if the engine failed at 200ft, where do I go?” That answer needs to be in your head before every departure, as well as tons of other performance related issues. I was inclined to bring this to driving, which I actually initially found a lot more difficult and intimidating!

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963763#Comment_121963763

It's kinda bemusing that people who might think nothing of spending an hour of their day watching some dross on TV, get so worked up about being stuck behind another road user for 20 or 30 seconds. It's simply a sense of entitlement.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966387#Comment_121966387

That's why they do it to get as much time in front of their dross on tv lol.

It's aggression, if you make any mistake on the roads today many people want to get out and kick the living sh1t out of you because they're so aggressive, women are increasingly aggressive behind the wheel these days too.

And people are watching all sorts of aggression on youtube and tiktok then then go around thinking this is normal behaviour to be so aggressive, A huge amount of Children have unlimited uncensored access to the internet today too watching all kinds of depravity.

People like this should be taken off the road until they complete several hours of aggression management and only allowed back on the road if deemed no danger.

Same with mobile phone users, they should be charged with manslaughter if it's proven they've been using a phone at the time of the accident, attempted murder perhaps, if someone chooses to use a phone in the car and/or play with the cars infotainment system while not looking at the road there should be serious consequences and a definite ban.

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961921#Comment_121961921

This will often work. But sometimes the person sitting on your tail is just tailgating you because they're stupid, and they don't actually intend to overtake you (or they lack the competence to do so).

If you pull over to the left of the lane to let them pass and they don't pass, you are now stuck there. If you move back to the centre or right of the lane they might suddenly decide to floor it just as you're moving back into their path.

Now you're sitting in the left hand side of the lane, and you're more exposed to danger from the left (such as cars pulling out in front of you) than you would have been if you've maintained a position in the centre or toward the right of your lane.

Because you've an idiot sitting on your right shoulder, you've lost the ability to use the entire lane. If you now come up to a left hand bend, you're in the wrong lane position without the ability to change it. Now you're coming into a left hand bend too fast for the view afforded by your compromised position. There could a pedestrian around that bend, and if you have to take evasive action then it's likely to be a three-way crash between you, the pedestrian and the moron in the car.

Another likely consequence of moving to the left of the lane to allow someone to pass is that they will hesitate and then finally go when there's a Tesco lorry coming in the opposite direction. Chummy realises as he draws level with you that he won't complete the overtake before the lorry arrives. Given the choice between hitting the Tesco lorry and hitting you, guess which he'll take?

Never - never - trade your safety for someone else's convenience. If you crash, you can be quite sure they aren't going to pay for your damaged bike/physiotherapy/funeral. They will just blithely drive off into the distance while you're dying on the road.

emo72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967474#Comment_121967474

Simple. In the unlikely event you come up against an absolute dope, just indicate pull over and stop. Believe me you don't want that dope driving behind you. And indicate and off you go again. I drive bikes cars and motorcycles, same attitude with them all. Have fun lads.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967474#Comment_121967474

Never - never - trade your safety for someone else's convenience. If you crash, you can be quite sure they aren't going to pay for your damaged bike/physiotherapy/funeral.

Don't forget that you need to be able to stop in an emergency, if someone is right up your arse they'll plough into you when you brake. As @emo72 said if someone is right behind you pull over and stop, it'll ad a minute to your trip but it'll be safer.

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971522#Comment_121971522

Yes, I should have said that. As you both said, it's better to have them in front of you. I was trying to say that it's not always a great idea to try to facilitate an overtake by moving left in the lane. But you're right - the best thing to do is to pull over completely and let them away.

gerarda

Good replies here, thank you and ride safe!

TheRiverman

The word is "patience" not "patients".

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976194#Comment_121976194

That was flagged earlier, "your" too late lol.

gerarda

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976730#Comment_121976730

Good spot nonetheless

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121961921#Comment_121961921

If you haven't passed an IBT never mind a bike test then kindly STFU.

Hotblack Desiato

I had a bad incident in the late 90s, I was on a GS500 (so well capable of keeping up with traffic on any road) coming back from a trip to a bike show in Belfast on the old N1. Not far south of the border there was a nasty S-bend, just before reaching it I was badly dazzled by an oncoming car (sunset was about an hour before). I literally could not see where I was going so I slowed down, the cnut who'd been tailgating me anyway took this as an opportunity to overtake and straightlined the S-bend, nearly ramming me off the road.

I was commanding my lane but a lot of advanced driving/riding theory assumes other drivers are rational actors, not psychos out to kill you to save a few seconds.

Moose1

Adding my two cents -
If you are feeling intimidated by the cars behind, as others have suggested, pull over a little on a safe piece of road with good view and allow the cars to pass. You are riding to your ability and you do not need to be at the speed limit of the road but as we share the road with others it is a courteous move.

There are times to take the assertive line, commanding the road but as others have suggested this can irk a driver and make them make a more dangerous move.

The fact that you may have been constantly looking in mirror and getting more anxious (Nevermind starting a thread on the subject) can cause you to be more distracted at what is behind you rather than in front. You want to be able to concentrate on the road, ride to the conditions and your ability not have to be worried about what is behind you.

Most importantly enjoy the ride!

I commute into work by car now not on my bike and I have noticed the amount of L or N bike riders literally can't drive, a danger to themselves and others. Weaving in and out of traffic without even checking their blindspots etc.

Is this because the IBT has become a money spinner and lads who can barely ride themselves are teaching these lads..

Standard of riding is definitely not what it was say 8 years ago even imo

oldsmokey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964591#Comment_121964591

Jam.

Hocus Focus

UK motorcycle tuition videos, (there don't seem to be any Irish ones),on YouTube consistently recommend riding at an indicated 1-2 mph above the posted speed limit. This is to (theoretically) keep you travelling slightly faster than the maximum speed the following vehicle might be legally travelling at, while allowing for inaccuracies in your speedometer.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035394#Comment_122035394

EU law requires your speedo to over read by between 2% and 10%. So if you are riding at an indicated 100km/h on an unmodified bike you will be doing between 90km/h and 98km/h.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035394#Comment_122035394

As if someone who would tailgate a rider or otherwise drive dangerously, would balk at doing 33 in a 30! Touchingly naive.

Hocus Focus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036873#Comment_122036873

Well that's what they say. They would be irresponsible if they advised people to ride illegally.

Mad_Lad

So anyway, after advice here I have to say I feel now that pulling in is the best option, so listen to the more experienced lads that have had their license years.

I rode back from Kilkenny last weekend to Carlow and I pulled in a few times because some idiots were too close and it felt far less intimidating and stressful.

So thanks for the advice lads.

Still getting the hand of the bends and pulling out at junctions, then I remembered, look in the direction you want to go and the bike will follow, it works, I practiced this this evening and it works, bends and pulling out of junctions under power really works to look in the direction you want to go.

Biking is so much fun even on a T-max 500 !

I'm getting there !