The engima that is Cork hurling

Ian OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768618#Comment_121768618

"Mocking is catching" as the mother used to say

PeggyShippen

There is some truth in Cork being the 'keepers of the flame' . They definately do play an attractive speed and skilled based game but that's never been the 'be all and end all' of hurling. Not by a long shot. Those silky skills have to hold up under physical pressure. I think Pat Ryan is going the right road but it's a bumpy one. There has to be ruthless physicality in any successfull contact sport. The Limerick team of the 30s were unbelievably physical with guys like Power,Howard and the Mackeys being killers aswell as skillfull players. The Cork team of the 40s the same..The tipp of the 60s the same, clare of the 90s the same, Kilkenny and Cork of the noughties were the same.

This limerick team are playing a limerick style of hurling. They Bully if they can and they can play ball better than everyone. They know what to do. I don't think all of the Cork team know that it's kill or be killed for a ball . Pat Ryan will weed out the ones that can't or won't adapt. Cork will win and win Bigly over the next decade. Kilkenny are actually in bigger trouble than Cork. They don't have the players right now..Tipperary are there or thereabouts but are they really at the level.. hard to know. Clare are best of the rest but after that there's not much.

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121830947#Comment_121830947

I'm sure they're well used to it at this stage.😉 I wouldn't begrudge the deise an all Ireland at all.

It would be nice to see finally see them win one, before anymore of their long suffering supporters end up six feet under!

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121830081#Comment_121830081

It bothers you enough to post that reply though.😉

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121830496#Comment_121830496

Absolute nonsense Cork are as well placed as anyone to knock Limerick off their perch, and Limericks reign will have to end eventually.

Our hurlers are as skillful as any other county, it's the physical side of things that's leaving us down. The team that's dominating at u20 level has the right mix of skill and toughness.

Form is temporary but class is permanent. Cork will win an all Ireland at senior level within the next five years or possibly sooner.

I get the impression from some of your past posts that you're from Kilkenny. Your own county is now almost gone ten years without an all Ireland.

Kilkenny are actually staring to develop a habit of constantly losing all Ireland finals at this stage. Cork will get back to the top playing Cork hurling and Cork hurling only.

Sunny Disposition

I thought the Munster under 20 final last year was interesting.

Cork were what you’d expect. Clare were not nearly as good as them but had far more cut and a higher work rate and made it very close. It was a win for Cork, but not entirely promising.

I don’t think it’s just toughness that Cork are missing, more competitiveness and what might be called ‘a bit of cut’. The mad thing is they have been missing it for so long.

My theory is that when there is such focus on possession at training there’s not enough attention paid to winning the ball back, tackling, giving hard hits and winning rucks.

Kinnerk has been great at coaching two county teams in how to play when they don’t have the ball. Cork need to find their Kinnerk. I wouldn’t like to name him, but I think one of Clare’s best players over the last two years wouldn’t make the Cork team, even though he’s exactly the type of guy they need.

People are writing funny stuff about Cork hurling, prior to the early 2000s they never played like this. Funnily enough as the style was being found out they seemed to be take it to extremes and they haven’t come back yet.

1373

As a tipp man looking at Cork every year, I think the style of what they call hurling will never win an all Ireland. All this running and passing and going nowhere and then loosing the ball in their own half and winning nothing for years is exactly what they deserve. When Cork started their hand passing game years ago, they had a 6 backs that were ruthless and put defending first but now the backs think they're all skilful attackers. Personally I hope Cork never win whilst playing handball instead of hurling, sorry

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834357#Comment_121834357

This thing about Cork maintaining a style, skill, and hurling that's going out of the game is a complete load of shite. They haven't been good enough, on any level for a while. If they were, they wouldn't have got smashed, absolutely smashed, in their last all ireland final. And lost to kids in 2013.

But I don't think there's the draw to hurling in cork that used to be. A lot of their great hurlers have had sons that have had rugby or soccer careers from JBM to O'Leary. And why wouldn't they pursue that? That's where the coin is. The current Munster squad and academy is rammed with Cork men.

There's been loads of highly skilled teams (and I don't just mean forward play) in the last fifteen years. Cork haven't been one of them. The best player Cork have had in the last thirty years has been Brian Corcoran - they've produced nobody of that intelligence, skill, and hardness since. For me, Horgan is light years off that kind of greatness. If you go back to Cork's last great team - you'll find a lot of players similar to what Limerick have now (in the backs). It's not a coincidence that that's the type of team that wins often. It's a lot easier to ruin a beautiful picture than to paint one. Everything begins and ends with the stability, steel, and play making ability of your 1 to 9. If you're trying to win games with 8 to 15, you've a much harder job on your hands. You won't do much with a hole in the bucket.

Grats

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834703#Comment_121834703

I tend to agree. Furthermore, going on the arrogance of some of the Cork posters,, theyd be insufferable if they manage to win an All Ireland title.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121833977#Comment_121833977

"Form is temporary but class is permanent" has no place in any kind of logical argument.

Grats

Sean Og O'hAilpin sees the light! Quote from him - 'Give me a team that can win their 50-50 ball any time of the day. They don’t have to be the most skillful but that’s the team you want to work with...'

Corcaigh84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834875#Comment_121834875

You're dead right we'll be insufferable! Social media wasn't really a big thing since we won last and we've had to put up with some amount of shite talking for the last two decades online 😭

I agree with the poster talking about throwing the ball but you'd swear we invented it. KK started it really in the early 00s and now Limerick mastered it and have taken it to almost criminal levels to win 5 All Ireland's.

We must have the worst stats amongst the top teams for winning dirty ball, that has to change. We are not getting ran through the middle as we used to be and a fella like Joyce will own that position for ten years hopefully.

I did have a good chuckle after the U20 AI win v Offaly and the cribbing that came out after that about the big bad Cork players roughhousing their smaller opponents - the irony considering the opposite has been rightly levelled at our seniors for years. I can't wait til we're hated again, Rebels abú!

hurlaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121844140#Comment_121844140

Don't worry Ye are still hated

Straight Talker

Yep and we hate you too Eire 31.😁

PTH2009

The feck is with the Cork love in on the OTB podcasts

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857634#Comment_121857634

Dublin and Cork is where the population is = clicks, likes, and viewers = money.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121844140#Comment_121844140

First time anywhere that I read the claim that Kilkenny started the throwing of the ball in the 00s. Considering Kilkenny were by far the highest profile team in the 00s you'll no doubt be able to furnish us with many example scores where throwing was involved? No, you won't, because it's not true. If anything Kilkenny were very late to the throwing party and still aren't near as prolific as Cork or Limerick

Grats

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857930#Comment_121857930

That's exactly my thoughts but couldn't be bothered arguing it. I'm glad you did though.

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857930#Comment_121857930

No but you did invent the holding of the spare arm and the hurley though in the 00's.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859549#Comment_121859549

Yes, while I wouldn't agree that Kilkenny invented it, they were probably the first team to consistently exploit the referees' willingness to ignore that offence, just like Limerick and Cork with the throwing in the late 2010s. And like the throwing, it wasn't long before all teams were doing the same. Thanks for admitting that Corcaigh84's claim about throwing that "KK started it really in the early 00s" was baseless

Grats

Didn't Cork "invent" cheating with sliotars, as admitted by Cusack in his book. The penalty was changed due to Nash wanting to almost run all the way into the goal with the ball!

Cork will never get over Kilkenny dismantling O'Grady's running game which in fact he robbed from Newtownshandrum.

BarryNumber1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121826535#Comment_121826535

I think KK lost more AI finals than Cork but only consider wins, we're the same. My point being really, is that prior to this barren stretch we're didn't dominate any recent decade when you consider wins. So entering an enigmatic barren stretch is not that much of a surprise when our rate before that is 2 AI wins a decade. The 70s were different but even then we shared the spoils with KK.

Oh and Cork benefitted from the back door system, plus got caught with one eye on the final sometimes... we were a bit "surprised" by Galway in the 79 semi.

evolvingtipperary101

How's the enigma now? Building nicely says Pat.

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121826535#Comment_121826535

that Cork team of the noughties was a superb team.. its no mean feat to have contested 4 all-irelands in a row... i remember in 2005 Cork were comfortably the best team in the country... remember that yrs munster final.. cusack saved a pen from eoin kelly... gardiner who was on the line with Cusack gathered the ball calmly played out to wayne sherlock i think.. cant remember who was next but after a couple passes it finished up with a cork forward scoring a point... that score was very similar to the scores Limerick are getting at the moment...

the difference to Limerick now in my opinion is no player or members of management have left the Limerick setup (unless dropped like Pat Ryan).. whereas O'Grady left after winning in 04.. Setanta left in 03/04.. had everyone stuck together and Frank kept his nose out of it... Cork would have achieved alot more... i think anyway... Cork's day is coming... too much talent and success for it not to happen... though your man from last yrs 20's team defecting to munster rugby is a loss

Asdfgh2020

Bumping this after Sunday’s game……does anyone have any updated comments/analysis to make on the ‘enigma’ …?

Mad about baa baas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122056229#Comment_122056229

I don't think enigma is the correct term at all.Enigma means mysterious. To me there is no mystery involved in Cork not winning the all Ireland in recent years..they are essentially starting the same team that are not quite good enough . Their forwards don't work hard enough without the ball and their defenders are not great at defending. Cork want to play a contact free brand of hurling which looks pretty when it goes well but when they come across a team that are physical and hard working more often than not they lose..to win an all Ireland I think Cork need a change in both mindset and players

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122056761#Comment_122056761

A lack of skill too. I'm not talking about the wristy skills which they have in abundance, but basic skills.

Hooking properly, shunting a lad out of the way with your hip in a tussle on the ground, catching under pressure, flicking the ball off the opponents stick, defensive awareness in knowing when to concede a point when the there's a goal on. They've lacked basics like that for a long time, and far too often comes back to haunt them.