"They don't have the facilities"

Jequ0n

The only facility needed is a mobile sterilisation unit

Cheddar Bob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707207#Comment_121707207

Whatever about the inner city, every kid growing up in Kilinarden, Jobstown, Laydwell, Corduff, Finglas, Ballymun and dozens of other places up and down this country had the best of both worlds- all that's going on in the city but living within spitting distance of the country. Half of their estates were made up of large green spaces.

We still heard all this No Faciliities so I Rob Cars nonsense beloved by schwars like Lynn Ruane.

Youre also neglecting the amount of facilities that working class communities in Dublin had that simply often didn't exist in rural Ireland- parks, playgrounds, soccer teams, boxing clubs. Until the 2010s the Irish national team came almost exclusively from Dublin, Cork and the odd larger regional town like Drogheda and Dundalk, and there's good reason for that- facilities.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709293#Comment_121709293

Sign might be ironic!

The building behind it is the pigeon club. Immediately beside it is a community centre. On the other side is a boxing club. Directly across the road is a swimming pool (Northside SC) and some soccer pitches. Its a stones throw from Parnells GAA, a soccer coaching centre (Oscar Traynor) and a public library.its within walking distance of Morton Stadium (Clonliffe Harriers Athletics), a Leisreplex and 2 x multiplex cinemas.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710425#Comment_121710425

But there's a full sized all-weather soccer pitch c.200m from that sign?

Sunny Disposition

Good facilities do keep one or two on the straight and narrow who would have gone wrong otherwise.

But that's not really what makes the difference. It's good or bad parenting that makes the difference in almost all cases. I say that having been involved in a coaching role in West Belfast and in rural Clare. There were little scrotes in both, bad parenting always the common factor.

Ray Palmer

Lived close to Coolock growing up and we had to go there because they had the facilities we didn't all provided by the council. In the private estates we had nothing until it was privately funded by the community.

The local kids would be setting fires beside the sport facilities and often damaging the playing fields and buildings. They had the facilities

I went to school with these people and their sense of morality and empathy was just not there. By no means am I saying everyone was bad in Coolock but there were just enough bad people to ruin it for others. In primary school it was one thing as kids can be just learning but as a teenager you get a moral compass. Still don't understand people who steal from people they know which for some in school was completely normal.

In primary school I remember the head master give out about the pupils spitting on the way to school. Walk out of school to go home and there are parents spitting outside the school. Kids are going to follow their parents.

The funny thing is currently Lidl are running ads for female GAA at the moment and they seem to be saying they need facilities and complaining about "inequality" in sport

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711522#Comment_121711522

One that is belonging to them? That they can use when they require it for matches and training etc? You sure about that?

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711433#Comment_121711433

Again, talk about missing the point.

They're not complaining that there's no facilities AT ALL. That's not the point of the sign.

The building behind it is the pigeon club......which is useless to a football team that cannot play in the inter.

Immediately beside it is a community centre......no good for a football team

On the other side is a boxing club......not a football club

directly across the road is a swimming pool (Northside SC).......underwater football?

and some soccer pitches.......finally, something football related. These are the pitches they're talking about that are unusable during the wet weather though.

Its a stones throw from Parnells GAA....who are famous for allowing foreign sports be played on their grounds.....

a soccer coaching centre (Oscar Traynor)......ran by a private company who are unrelated to the football team, and unlikely to allow them to use their premises for free

and a public library.........'twould be a fierce quiet game of ball, I'd say.

Its within walking distance of Morton Stadium (Clonliffe Harriers Athletics), a Leisreplex and 2 x multiplex cinemas..........which all have SFA to do with Kilmore Celtic or their plight.

Did you even read the link posted?

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711288#Comment_121711288

At the risk of repeating myself here, poor people cannot afford food for their kids, never mind subs for a soccer or hurling team, boxing club etc. They also can't afford boots, gear, gloves, hurleys etc.

The parks and playgrounds are the type of things that these communities were lacking or which were left in a state of disrepair/neglect so as to be practically unusable. Mountjoy Square was the nearest park to me growing up, but it was full of junkballs and alcos hiding in the bushes. You couldn't go near it as a kid. You'd either get robbed or battered or both. Nowadays when I pass by, it's full of families having picnics and groups of foreigners playing basketball etc. because they tidied it up and removed a lot of the hedging that the scum used to hide in. Those folks would have been thumped around in the 80s or 90s. Even St. Stephen's Green was a no go area after dark until relatively recently.

Stuff that's free, easy and safe to use, and not allowed to rot and fester is exactly what they were crying out for when they were complaining about the lack of facilities, for the most part.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712089#Comment_121712089

The vast majority of local soccer clubs dont have dressing rooms or all weather pitches - so nothing unusual there.

The dressing room issue could be solved by using the ones in the community centre. The all weather pitch is owned by the amateur soccer league, so hardly a commercial arrangement.

The KC situation higjhlights an interesting problem - every small club wants its own exclusive facilities. This is unsustainable for the taxpayer. What we have here is a local politics issue whereby some clubs have and some clubs havent got access to existing taxpayer funded or own facilities in the community. The solution is to petition for or negotiate access and for any new facilies to be for the community, not a single club/organisatiion.

Speedsie

I was only pointing out to mrmusican that there is still an out cry for facilities, and only found out it was at a recreation facility when I looked at Google maps to find an image. Great to see there's a pigeon club there, working with animals is great to engender empathy.

To be honest I didn't pay that much attention to the sign, other than seeing it when I'm traffic on the road during the weeks I had go to Beaumont daily to see my mother, she's normally hospitalised in either Naas or Tallaght so it's a bit out of my way. Did visit the Stardust memorial park though, it was lovely I thought.

Sorry though if I caused any offence and I'll look into the facilities in the area further.

mariaalice

The converse of this argument must be, there are all sorts of early support workers, youth workers, family support workers, before and after-school care, school meals, special needs assistance, education assistance support, schools with good facilities the amount of anti-social behavior should be declining?

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712161#Comment_121712161

At the risk of repeating myself here, poor people cannot afford food for their kids, never mind subs for a soccer or hurling team, boxing club etc. They also can't afford boots, gear, gloves, hurleys etc.

Most of the people destroying community facilities aren't poor. They have enough money for booze/smokes/drugs and are going around in Canada Goose jackets on expensive electric bikes.. Poor people generally respect stuff because they know the value of money.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707302#Comment_121707302

Excellent post(s). To be honest I'd have been of the frame of mind that I grew up with feck all facilities and my friends and I didn't turn into toerags so it's on the individuals involved. My Dad grew up poor, e.g. a snared/shot rabbit meant another day eating meat in the week. He'd have never thought of himself as poor though as he'd say everyone was in the same boat. I think the issue can arise from being in a situation where there are have's and have nots possibly?

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058334261/they-dont-have-the-facilities

Just an excuse for wasters to blame everyone but themselves

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058334261/they-dont-have-the-facilities

My granny smoked eighty fags a day and lived to age ninety five. Why is this excuse about smoking causing cancer always used?

jack of all

I live pretty close to what is considered a disadvantaged area and my own children attended the local primary school there which is a DEIS school. There was plenty of money pumped into that area in the last 20 years, with lovely new community facilities, big improvement in the social housing stock, new school buildings etc. The place has really improved from when I remember it as a teenager growing up. However, as the years have gone on you do notice the same old patterns- nice new green areas and what is considered the public realm is continually littered, walls graffitied, public lighting and litter bins damaged and a general look of neglect. Most of the people that live in this area are decent, some are hardworking and most are law abiding. However there is a core goup who are not, it is inter generational and no matter what money or resources are allocated the outcome is the same. So, to my mind it's down to poor parenting in the main, one set of poor parents raises the next generation of poor parents. A lot of kids in these areas come from homes that have never had an adult that worked. A bit of a cliche, but it is true- when I was collecting my children from school here I was always amazed how most of these parents always had a better phone than me! Money is not the answer here, better parenting and education is. The town in general (like most in the country now) has seen massive improvement in the facilities available, children really have so much now, compared to the bad old 80s, yet we have more issues with anti social behaviour, crime and drug use, why?

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712762#Comment_121712762

Cool story, bro......It's almost as if I said that the people who destroy the stuff are poor, isn't it? Almost.

What about the people who use those community facilities? Are they poor?

Sunny Disposition

Poverty does exist, but it's not like it was decades ago. Social welfare is very generous now. Plus any able bodied person can work as much as they like in this current economy. There's no reason for anyone without a disability not to have a job.

The root causes for scummy behaviour and for unemployment in a booming economy are the same, and are harder to tackle than a lack of facilities. If parents set a good example kids won't be troublesome and will grow into adults who can and will hold down jobs. If they have a different example then things won't go so well.

Lack of faciliites has nothing to do with it, a lot of society's problems could be solved if things were that simple.

tayto lover

In the 1950's many children in our area went to school without shoes. They were lucky to have a bottle of milk and a piece of bread for their lunch.

I saw lads playing schoolboy football wearing wellingtons, the same ones they wore to school and mass.

Nowadays everyone wants a bus to collect them for school, school meals and a Sports Centre beside their door.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728193#Comment_121728193

...id be interested in viewing your peer reviewed research for your observations, as in, your own personal peered reviewed, cause it greatly differs from most others.....

a significant amount of folks currently on welfare are unable to adequately provide themselves with their own needs, due to the overall cost of living, which of course has risen significantly over the last couple of years.....

....again, id be very interested in viewing your research in relation to disability, as most i have the privilege in mixing with struggle with their day to day needs, particular in relation to their psychological needs, most struggle with significant mental health issues, best of luck with explaining this to potential employers, i.e. explaining how such folks are unable to go to work today, as theyre struggling with significant anxiety or crippling depression on particular days, or become extremely overwhelmed, and must leave the work place.....

...and you d wonder why many such people struggle with such issues, and have great shame and guilt over their situation, fair play for your empathy and compassion of others, im sure it doesnt cause an escalation of such societal problems....

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710425#Comment_121710425

Are you .......

Lynn Boylan ???

🤔

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728502#Comment_121728502

No.

Are you......dyslexic?

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728557#Comment_121728557

😏

Salty.

csirl

Interesting that someone mentionec DEIS schools. The funding focus in many of these schools is too focused on the lower end of the scale. For example, they throw extra learning support hours at these schools regardless of need. So you get a scenario where children who otherwise would be in mainstream education are being pushed into learning support. There's also too much focus on alternative programmes to mainstream education.

There"s a significant body of students in these schools who are as intelligent as anyone else, but maybe dont have the parental direction/support to keep them interested in mainstream education. The DoE would get a lot more bang for their buck by focusing funding on supporting and keeping well able intelligent kids in mainstream education rather than focusing on "alternatives" and adopting the attitude that because a kid comes from a difficult background, they shouldnt be expected to pursue academics. The best solution for anti-social behaviour is people having careers and expectations.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728922#Comment_121728922

I'll take "American buzzwords I picked up that have zero relevance in Ireland" for $500, please Bob

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729361#Comment_121729361

Zero relevance ????

Really ?? It does describe your reply ....

You prefer "Butthurt" ??? 😂

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121732683#Comment_121732683

Nah, Butthurt is another Americanism you can keep to yourself, thanks.

• I'm aware of the definition of "salty". Nobody says that in Ireland, we have plenty of our own colloquialisms without importing that shite (see bulling, raging, giving out, eat the head off ya, sickened, scundered (NI), freaked etc.), hence the zero relevance comment. There's a sizeable portion of the country that wouldn't have the foggiest what you were shiting on about if you used salty in casual conversation in the context you used it. But you got the wrong end of the stick, you failed to take the "....in Ireland" part of my post into account. There is a difference between something having zero relevance to this thread/conversation on Boards and something having zero relevance in Ireland. You'd want to have some form of dyslexia to a) not be able to discern that difference and b) misinterpret my original reply to the OP. Hence the question.
• Seeing as you've taken me up incorrectly, let's discuss how you're also wrong on that count..........I also said it wasn't relevant because I wasn't salty, or bitter, or upset or any of that shite. Calling someone salty when they aren't (why would I be when I barely have a notion of who she is or what you mean in your failed attempt at humour?) is also not relevant, for anyone struggling to keep up. Someone brought up KCFC as an example of those who cry "there are no facilities" as described in the OP. I explained how this wasn't the case, and you tried to equate that with me being Lynn Boylan, whatever the fcuk that means. I asked you if you had a reading/learning disability, because only a complete eejit* would misunderstand what I was saying, which was written in plain English. You mistook that as me being salty, for reasons unknown to anyone but yourself. How could I be a sore loser if I didn't lose?

You failed to understand what was being said.

You threw out a lame-ass joke/insult which didn't make sense, thereby also failing

When you got a joke/insult back as a reply, you declared the other person to be salty, despite zero evidence that this was indeed the case. That's a third failure on your part, I'm afraid.

*seeing as you've displayed a fierce dearth of reading comprehension up to this point, and for any Americans watching, replace eejit with chump, numbskull, blockhead, schmuck, dweeb, doofus, poindexter etc.)

Prediction: Your next post will be some variation of "hahaha.....Look at this wall of text, only a salty person would bother typing this much hahahaha I’m obviously after getting under your skin I am the winner hahahah”.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733449#Comment_121733449

......

Deleted..

Your not worth the warning...

"have a nice day y'all"......

taxAHcruel

The "bad parenting" line has been interesting to me over recent years. While I genuinely believe there are "bad" parents out there - as in parents who do not care a jot or actively produce horrible children - it seems to me anecdotally that overwhelmed or struggling parents are infinitely more common than "bad" ones.

A lot of this comes from my experience which I have mentioned enough times on the forum to probably make the majority sick of me at this stage :) But in short there was a group of "scrote" teens around my area who were intimidating people, physically accosting old ladies, drinking and littering and in general just being in many ways awful. People who talked about them would use words like "scum" and "irredeemable". I had my doubts.

So I indirectly confronted them one day - in that I made myself seem a target so they would come at me. And I ended up working with them and teaching them martial arts and a few other things. I jokingly run a "Jedi Acadamy" around here now where the kids learn the things Jedi would learn. And where they can not learn Jedi things (since "the force" does not exist for example) they learn the closest real world equivalent. And they love it.

And they have turned out pretty wonderful kids. Over covid they were doing the gardens and delivering the shopping of the little old ladies they were previously intimidating for example. But there are many examples of how turned around they are.

I met their parents. I made a point of it. And all but one set (who were scum of the highest order) of parents were lovely people. They were working two jobs and long hours to make ends meet. They were not "bad" parents. But the demands of meeting the minimum standards of feeding and clothing and housing and school educating their kids was such they had little time, energy, or ability to do the rest of "parenting". So the kids ended up on the street with other kids. Aimless and lost. The meals they were eating were not good, convenience stuff. And the result was not pretty.

Would a cart load of new facilities around Maynooth have taken those kids in and stopped the "scrote" behavior? Possibly. But I think it takes a lot more than mere facilities existing. They have to be maintained. Access has to be uncomplicated. Kids need guidance and leadership. And more. So I am a little skeptical as to how useful it would have been to them really. For every athlete who talks about how a football or boxing club "saved" them there are many kids who aren't built for either of those sports.

Its a bit like how you can get kids 100 presents at Christmas but after a couple of hours they are pestering you and giving you no peace. Why? Because more than gifts they want your time. And I think you can similarly throw a ton of facilities at children but like the gifts it will not be quite enough. I was born and bred in Clontarf. Swimming pools, football pitches galore, beaches, parks, Karate club, Snooker in Fairview, Library in Raheny, Rugby pitch and more existed as I grew up and kids still hung around outside shops being a nuisance seemingly with nothing better to do.

The outcome of children is multi factorial and "facilities" and "parenting" and so forth are only single factors. Trying to distill it all down to "its all because of X" for me always leaves me skeptical. It's never that simple. It makes me sad. I am so proud of the work I did with the kids and I am proud of them and what they do now and have become. I genuinely touched and changed the lives of a number of people. But it's only a handful of kids and I am only 1 man. And even then I do it with the support of 4 to 10 other people at different times. I wish I could help them all! But no part of me shouting about facilities OR that it's "all about the parents" is likely to help anyone I fear.