Sexism in Ireland

chacha11

I'm Irish. I grew up in Ireland. Then I lived in the UK for many years, then I lived in France for some time.

I moved back to Ireland a year ago, as on of my elderly parents is sick.

I can't get over the level of sexism in Ireland.

When I was in England, men there would talk to me about news, education, current affairs. They were able to have a polite conversation with me.

I came back to Ireland, and the men here talk to me like I'm an animal. It's shocking

I remember it being bad in Ireland when I was younger. But how can it still be this bad now in 2023?

I was used to being talked to with respect in the UK. I was used to men being able to have a polite conversation with me.

Here in Ireland, the men either sneer and laugh at me, call me stupid, or talk to me about sex.

It's so bad! Why is there such a lack of respect for women in Ireland ?

Lewis_Benson

Is there?

I hadn't noticed.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058330844/sexism-in-ireland

I think the issue is the type of men you're talking to

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602481#Comment_121602481

I disagree. I think that Ireland has a particularly big problem with sexism. That stems from historical factors. It is not long ago that the catholic church had a lot of power in Ireland. And the catholic church told everyone that men were better than women. That has led to a disrespect of women in Ireland that is not seen in other western Europen countries.

We are just this year debating the "women in the home" article in the irish constitution!

Danzy

You aren't a people person I suspect, step out of your niche world, move in different circles, change yourself and your acquaintances.

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602862#Comment_121602862

I've literally written that I've lived in three different countries and talked to loads of different people , yet you want me to move in different circles and chance aquaintances . Right that makes sense.

What is your opinion on sexism in Ireland,?

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602468#Comment_121602468

You haven't noticed the many news news reports about sexual abuse against in Ireland?

You haven't noticed that in 2024 we are only now debating the part about "women in the home" in the Irish constitution?

Potatoeman

France has a far worse reputation than us, Italy too. Cat calling in both countries is a national pass time. It’s strange that both countries are considered more ‘romantic and passionate’ than here.

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602896#Comment_121602896

Do you have any suggestions on how Ireland can do better? What are your thoughts about sexism in Ireland?

chacha11

I have to say from travelling round, I think that Ireland is seen as doing economically well, but it also seen as very behind the times with sexism and womens rights in 2024. Ireland is seen as a sexist old fashioned country by a lot of other countries.

Our countries constitution was developed with the catholic church and our own constitution is sexist.

Politico.eu online has this to say about Ireland

"A referendum will modernize Ireland’s conservative Catholic constitution to remove sexist language on women as housewives.

The Irish government on Tuesday announced long-awaited plans to drop the sexism from Ireland’s constitution.

When Irish leader Eamon de Valera drafted that 1937 constitution in close consultation with the Roman Catholic hierarchy, he sought to shape a nation."

Ireland has been gradually digging itself out of Dev’s conservative Catholic vision of the country by amending that constitution repeatedly —

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058330844/sexism-in-ireland

Pictures or it didn't happen.

sameoldname

If it were the Scandinavian nations or somewhere like Germany or the Netherlands then there might be a debate to be had, but compared to the UK or France? Not really.

As for religion, you could argue that Catholicism is slightly more sexist than other forms of Christianity found around Europe but then the biggest legacy of abuse by the Catholic church was aimed mainly at boys. Take from that what you will.

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603005#Comment_121603005

Care to contribute anything intelligent? Go on. You can do it.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602973#Comment_121602973

You think... It's seen...

Is seen by whom? You can think what you like but, having travelled extensively myself, I see Ireland no worse, and often better, than other countries in this regard. You're mixing with the wrong people.

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603031#Comment_121603031

You said im "Mixing with the wrong people". What does that even mean. What exactly do you mean by that? I know people from different groups.

Do you want me to only hang around with well educated men for example?

Well educated men with good jobs are not angels. Theu can also be extremely sexist.

I've heard some of the worst sexist remarks , truly disgusting comments, come out of the mouths of very well educated men in Ireland.

Two of the most sexist men I've ever met in Ireland had masters degrees and extremely good jobs. They said absolutely disgustinf things.

Am education doesn't change people's personalities.

So what do you mean that I'm hanging out with the wrong people

nachouser

I think you all have lovely bottoms.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603066#Comment_121603066

I never mentioned educational achievement. I meant their attitudes. Hang out with decent people.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603030#Comment_121603030

"men here talk to me like I'm an animal"

Sorry love. You need to take a look at yourself, and ask why people are talking to you like that.

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603026#Comment_121603026

Are you male? First of all.

I've lived in the UK and I've lived in Ireland. The UK is far far less sexist in my opinion.

I was chatting to a woman in the UK and she was saying how she would never come back to Ireland. As it is too sexist in Ireland..

I've only been back in Ireland for a year and already I'm feeling like I can't stick it here.

The level of sexism is unreal. If you are male you don't see it.

I really feel like I'm talked to like a sub human in Ireland. I was not talked to like that in the UK

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602885#Comment_121602885

The woman in the home thing is just a legacy clean up , and the church affects nobody anymore

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603080#Comment_121603080

Sounds like victim blaming

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603084#Comment_121603084

I hear ya. Even a lot of the responses here are telling.

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603121#Comment_121603121

Thank you very much Annasopra

Pauliedragon

OP I've never lived in the UK but I visit it a couple of times a year. I have an Irish friend who has been living in the UK for 20 years and says Englishmen are very rude to women. My best friend who is a woman lived there for 5 years and visits a lot as she has family there. I showed her your post and she disagrees completely. She says she gets far more respect from irish men than English men. She feels far more comfortable going on a night out here than the UK.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058330844/sexism-in-ireland

I'm a woman and I completely disagree with you. I agree with others that you may be talking to the wrong type of men or having the wrong type of conversation. Perhaps you are a bit on the sensitive side - that's not meant as an insult.

Can you give examples of times when you have been offended.

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603127#Comment_121603127

Yes that's so true. I have not seen one male poster yet say that "yes there may be sexism in ireland and yes it needs to improve".

Or even say "we are open to hear about your experiences".

The responses I've gotten so far, while not aggressive, have all been. "i don't see it" or "we are no worse than other countries " or "it's you".

Which shows the problems that exist in this country.

Instead of getting defensive, wouldn't it be more beneficial to try to have a discussion to say where we can improve the sexism in Ireland .

I'm not saying every man is sexist in ireland. I'm saying that a lot of sexist issues exist in Ireland tha take a lot of women's lives really bad. And surely we can do better in 2024.

chacha11

*that make a lot of women's lives really bad.

TheRepentent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058330844/sexism-in-ireland

cool story Sis

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603084#Comment_121603084

I'm a male so my opinion of what I see doesn't count? Pretty sexist I have to say...

You're acting like I denied there is sexism against women in this country, I did not. I didn't even say that we were the best in Europe or even amongst the best. But compared to the two countries you mentioned, I would certainly put us ahead of them. And not that it's any of your business but yes, I lived in London. Plenty of pig ignorant British males in that town.

Downlinz

If I didn't think Ireland had a sexism problem in its culture before I certainly would after reading this thread. 

-Posts #2, #3, #5, #14 outright dismissing the concerns without even seeking further details. Nobody was asking what was said, what area was it, what were the demographics, what other women thought of the comments etc. Why attempt to understand when you can just dismiss with zero information!

-post #8 and #14 gaslighting the OP on her travel experiences, clearly as men they're better positioned to ascertain the sexism prevalence towards women across the world. 

-post #18 going even further to blame the OP for being abused(!!) 

Absolute shambles of a thread, boards has just turned into boomer central in the last 10 years full of old cranks coming here to complain about "woke" with zero communication skills. 

OP, I suggest asking the question on a different platform and you might get some actual serious responses. 

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603078#Comment_121603078

Jim Hodge thats very easy for you to say. Yet it's impossible to implement in reality. Women in Ireland have to be around men in different places. We don't get to choose which men are there. I don't get to get to choose the men that i work with.

I don't get to choose the men that are in the local choir that I am in. I have to be in groups with men everywhere in Ireland. Maybe men could act better.

I have left some groups in Ireland because of sexual harassment. But if I left them all , i would have no social life whatsoever

I used to sing in a band in ireland. I loved it. I had to leave it. As one of the bands members father used to come to every gig and ask me to have sex with him. I couldn't take him any more. So I had to leave a band that I loved singing in.

I've left two other hobby groups that I absolutely loved in Ireland, because of sexual comments that the men made. The things about women they said were absolutely disgusting. I couldn't be around them anymore

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603238#Comment_121603238

I've had to leave a good few hobby groups and meetup groups in Ireland purely because of how bad some of the men were. I couldn't even be around them. The things they said were so disgustinG.

These men weren't talking about wanting to have sex with women, they were joking about rape and abuse of women. This was at a social meetup in the daytimr. Would you feel comfortable sitting in a group with men who were joking about raping women. That is how bad these places are.

I've lost out on a social life because I can't go to some things in ireland because some of the men make it so bad

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603238#Comment_121603238

Well as a woman living in Ireland I haven't had any experiences like that myself. I find I have sensible conversations with men who value and respect my views.

I can only conclude from this post that you are absolutely gorgeous and are irresistible to men!

chacha11

I see another woman has come on here and said that she agrees that there is sexism against women in Ireland.

Do any men on here think that there is sexism against women in Ireland?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602896#Comment_121602896

Yeah mistress and the like is culturally acceptable in those countries.

gormdubhgorm

I have a question for the the OP (I assume it is a she) -

1) What industry does she work in?

2) Why does she not report her work colleagues to HR? - there are no doubt robust mechanisms and workplace legislation for this type of thing

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603283#Comment_121603283

My work colleagues in my current job are fine.

I was replying to the man who said that i should choose the men I'm around more carefully.

I pointed out that doesn't make sense as we don't get to choose most of the men that we are around in life.

We don't get to choose the men we work with.

We don't get to choose the men that go to any social club that we want to join: for example book clubs, choirs, social groups.

You can't just choose which men you want to be around in life.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603309#Comment_121603309

I think you need to learn quick sharp comebacks - the type that give abuse like you are talking about would not be able for it, if done correctly. Turn the tables.

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603269#Comment_121603269

It absolutely nothing to do with me being gorgeous.

As I have overheard men say awful sexist things about other women, while I was there

In fact I left one social group that I went to in Ireland, because I overheard two of the men talking about another woman that was in the grouo. They were joking that he should get her very drunk and then bring her back to his house and remember if she says no, it means yes.

I couldn't stomach being around those guys and I left that social group. I did report that conversation to the group leader. I don't think anything was done

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603323#Comment_121603323

Or maybe those men who do, should stop sexually harassing women.

And maybe more training should be put in place to get men to respect women.

I often feel like some of the men in ireland who don't like what's going on, still don't stand up to the men who do these things, for fear of being seen as less of a man. Or that the men will then bully them.

I've seen sexual harassment of women in loads of places in Ireland. I've yet to see any man in any place say to these other men that they are wrong.

Its like a culture of fear

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603233#Comment_121603233

Thank you. Well said.

chacha11

I've still yet to see one male poster say on here that yes there is sexism in Ireland. Let alone what we can do to improve it.

I can't understand that. I really can't.

I'm white. Black people have come to me and told me that they experience racism in ireland.

Of course racism exists in Ireland. I know that. How do I know that. Because many black people have told me that. Because Facebook pages exist where black people talk about racism they experience in Ireland. Racism doesn't happen to me . Yet I know it happens. And I wouldn't be defensive about it at all.

The fact that not one man on this thread has even admitted that sexism happens against women in Ireland really shows the very bad state of affairs that we are in. It's disheartening.

chacha11

Would any man like to know the sexism that I have experienced in just the last year in ireland.

I'm not going to include what I would call medium level sexual harassment. Whicj I experienced and is too many to write.

I'm going to write out the list of the extreme level sexual harassment that I went though in only the last year. In Ireland.

1) i went to a meetup group. The group organizer came over and hugged me. A one arm hug. He stood beside me. He put his arm behind my back to hug me. He moved his hand to the front from behind and fully squeezed my breast. He had a good grope of my breast

I felt too afraid to go to that group anymore. That is sexual assault. You could ask why I didn't report him. I tried to report one man in a small town in Ireland ages ago for something similiar, and I learned from bitter experience, that if I do report a man, it will ruin my life , not his. You can't safely report a man in small town Ireland. Without terrible repurcussions for the woman.

2) I went to another meetup group, where the men laughed at the women. And two of the men joked about sexually assaulting another woman in the group. They were in hysterics laughing. They talked about getting her drunk so she wouldn't remember the sex

And they said "remember if she says no it means yes" I had to leave that group.

3) I was walking down the street and a man shouted at me "big tits. I'd suck those tits off you"

4) a man walked past me on the street and stuck his hand right up my skirt.

5) I sing. And I used to sing in a band in Ireland. I loved it so much. We performed every week. I was the only woman in the band. At every gig, one of the band member's fathers would come and stand at the stage. When I got off the stage he would come over to me, leer at me, woukdnt leave me alone, and ask me to go back to his house and have sex with him. Every single time.till I began to find it unbearable to be in the band anymore. And I had to quit.

That was just in the last year in ireland.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603400#Comment_121603400

My first response to you I literally included 5 countries that would be considered to be less sexist than here. I reiterated that point in my second post that you just obviously ignored. In your rush to berate me for my male opinion you seem to not have noticed that I actually acknowledged sexism in this country. So who is actually the problem here?

I think the number of female TDs says a lot is wrong, certainly more traditional cultures like within big parties link FF and FG. Having only 22.5% female representation in the Dail in 2024 in a very open PR system is really surprisingly low and way out of line with Northern and Western Europe btw.

Since the policies and practices of government and systems are all very much trying to be open, you can only conclude it’s cultural at party candidate selection or constituency level.

We’ve been fairly lagging in % of female CEOs and so on too.

I think Ireland can be very blind to problems people are reporting tbh and just shut down unwanted feedback. You see it a lot when people describe racism and the immediate response is that it couldn’t have happened.

Dr. Greenthumb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603400#Comment_121603400

That's because it is your opinion that there is sexism in Ireland, their opinion is that there is not, as they haven't seen it. This is all opinion after which is formed by people's lived experiences. I have no doubt there is sexist males in Ireland, they are in every country, but I don't think that there is a culture of sexism in Ireland.

Some of the things you have heard people say are disgusting. I'm a male and grew up in various male friend groups and I never heard anyone saying things like you heard to women. Was there sexist jokes? Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean those people are sexist, they are having a laugh and a lot of sensitive subjects are joked about. Comedian's make sexist jokes all the time and it's accepted as part of their act. In saying that I have never heard anyone joking about raping someone, that's a bit strange.

So while I agree there is sexist people in Ireland as well as racists, homophobes etc. I don't think there is a culture of any of those things. Which is what I think you are implying, that there is a sexist culture in Ireland.

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603484#Comment_121603484

I asked you are you a male, as I was simply wondering what gender I was talking to. You replied with "I'm a male so my opinion of what I see doesn't count? Pretty sexist I have to say..."

I never said that. All genders are wanted and needed in this discusison. As we are both needed in the world.

You then went on to say that if we were comparing Ireland to Germany ,Netherlands and Scandinavia then there may be a debate to be had. That Ireland could be more sexist than those countries. But you disagree that Ireland is more sexist than the UK and France. ok thank you for your opinion.

chacha11

@sameoldname would you like to elaborate.

Why do you think that ireland is more sexist than scandinavia, Netherlands and Germany but less sexist than the UK and france. it's up to you if you want to elaborate.

chacha11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603528#Comment_121603528

Thanks for your contribution. You said you've never heard any men joke about raping women in Ireland. They don't say explicitly in the joke "I'm going to rape her".

But a lot of jokey sexual comments said about women by men , involve non consent by the women. That IS joking about sexual assault as well.

I'm sure we have all heard

"Any hole's a goal".

I've heard men say that from a very young age in Ireland. They joke that they are going to go out and "get their hole". Any hole.

It doesn't matter at all what the woman attached to the hole wants. That's a cruel disgusting saying. And I heard it being said by loada of young men on Ireland. And before anyone blames me for hanging out with the wrong men again. I heard the phrase being used by lots of men from different backgrounds in the college I went to in Ireland.

Women were talked about as just vaginas. Men would say to each other "he will get his hole tonight". Hahahah Etc etc

Lewis_Benson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602895#Comment_121602895

No I havnt seen it in the news, I don't watch everyday.

I don't see it in daily life either.

Might still go on with some old school auld lads, but not in my circles.

chacha11

I remember hearing another man saying at college

"Will there be any " boscai" at the party".

As those men called vaginas " boxes"

And then they used the Irish word for boxes. To sound cooler I guess

So instead of saying "will there be any women at the party" they said "will there be any boxes at the party" that was how they referred to women. We were talked about like objects.

It was all sexual crude remarks