If Gardai cannot police beside Capitals main street, is it third world?

Francis McM

Today it emerged that access to a Dublin city centre street, just beside O'Connell st., has been closed off to members of the public.

Quote " Harbour Court, located opposite the Abbey Theatre, has been the location of uncontrollable anti-social behaviour, drug use and illegal dumping, according to Dublin City Council."

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-city-centre-street-closed-due-to-anti-social-behaviour-drug-use-1573245.html

A local councillor there said " It's half the length of O'Connell Street and Gardaí haven't got the resources to patrol O'Connell Street so what chance is there that they could in any way patrol a lane?"

Are we the only European country which has a city centre which is uncontrollable and has no-go areas even for police?

HeidiHeidi

It's not a no-go area, it's a small laneway and there are not enough gardai to patrol the main streets properly, never mind every back street and laneway.

I'd nearly guarantee nobody used it as a through route precisely because of those who congregate there, so no loss except to the drug dealers and users.

Francis McM

Some people were on the radio today saying many many years ago they used to use it as a through route, but the drug users and homeless and people camping out and drug dealers and needles on the ground and illegal dumping made it feel less safe than Mogadishu.

O'Connell Street is the widest street in Europe (the Champs Elysees is the widest avenue in Europe), shame how our capital main street area is not as elegant or well kept as 110 years ago.

Marcel Sweet

Shame on the councillors who allowed this to happen..but listening to some of the rubbish they come out with....not surprising.

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592058#Comment_121592058

You might be over estimating the powers of a Councilor, what exactly would like them to do - man the barricades?

We love to blame a third party in this country, how about blame the scum and vermin that have made the alleyway in accessible?

Marcel Sweet

I meant shame on our Councillors who allowed our principle street to become a honky tonk of fast food joints and gambling emporiums.

And for not insisting on proper policing for citizens.

whomitconcerns

I assumed that's where it was. I used to get the bus opposite it for years. It always stank of pi$$, but that was as bad as it got, your talking late 90s though.

Not surprised it just got worse..

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592198#Comment_121592198

It wasn't fast food joints and gambling emporiums that the looters were rampaging through a few weeks back. I have lived in Dublin, Brussels, Belfast, London and Glasgow and there is no noticeable difference in the premises on main streets - some have more bars alright but that's because of Temple Bar.

You talk of policing, go over to the thread on public pay talks and see what the appetite is for a properly paid police force - everyone wants more and better services but are unwilling to pay for it, can't have it both ways.

And again what has any of this to do with Councilors, they have about as much say as an angry caller to Joe Duffy.

One of the main issues/differences I notice in Dublin from the afore mentioned Cities is the location and quality of Methadone Clinics and associated services. in most cities these are moved away from the centre, away from the eyes of the tourists and visitors but they still exist as do all the antisocial consequences that come with them.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592307#Comment_121592307

My 2 favourite Joe Duffy style commenters in these conversations are the "X is a disaster/dead nowadays, I haven't been there in 20 years" and the people who proclaim that the "tourists will run a mile with the state of the place" who clearly show up how little they know about other cities on the planet.

Marcel Sweet

By your logic then fast food joints and gambling emporium are OK on our main thoroughfare because they were not looted ?

Surely the councillors could refuse planning permission for the methadone centres??

They seem pretty effective in stifling any proper high rise developments

whisky_galore

Lazy ass Irish sticking plaster fix.

Drug users etc simply move somewhere else.

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592629#Comment_121592629

Well actually I think that is exactly what they want, away from the center.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592639#Comment_121592639

Well it won't be a million miles away and just creates a nuisance somewhere else, this is not a fix, this is moving a problem around.

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592649#Comment_121592649

I tend to agree but its exactly what is pretty much done in every large city that I have ever been in, out of sight out of mind! Someone else's problem!

chrissb8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592430#Comment_121592430

I know of other cities on the planet and I know we're in Europe. So that really is where the comparison should be narrowed down to. As there are many cities of comparable size to Dublin littered throughout Europe and we're of comparable wealth to our immediate continental western neighbours. This isn't a grass is greener situation. Dublin is plagued with anti social issues and rampant drug use.

You might point this is not unique to Ireland, no it isn't. But I can go over to central London and I won't see someone in a phonebox smoking crack. I won't see addicts frozen on the street from their heroin use. Take a walk around any street in central Dublin and without trying you'll find some form of drug abuse, anti social behaviour at some point throughout a given day/night.

You might point to Paris as an example. But besides our common past time of riots you can walk around central Paris on a normal (peaceful even) day and not see what I mentioned above.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592819#Comment_121592819

I lived and worked in a very touristy part of central London and saw all those things. Seen plenty of it in Paris, Brussels and Barcelona too.

Anyway I'm not going to argue with you about Dublin having problems or not cause it does. I'm just also not gonna stop laughing at the radio phone in crowd preaching apocalypse.

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592819#Comment_121592819

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210619-syringes-in-the-sandpit-the-paris-public-garden-for-crack-addicts-and-kids

...

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592307#Comment_121592307

Agreed. It is madness to locate so many drug treatment centres and social housing complexes in the city centre.

The treatment centres should be moved out, mostly to industrial estates and the housing stock in D1 should be mixed tenure, to allow more working folks to live and purchase a home there.

O'Connell St could be turned around pretty quickly, if there was any political will to address the elephants in the room.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592819#Comment_121592819

I've seen it in every major city.

You have to zoom out on Dublin and view it over many decades. It's got problems but it's improving all the time.

Up until the mid 90s nobody wanted to live in the city center. It had huge areas of deprivation, crime, heroin epidemic. That's gradually improved.

The Docklands were a post industrial wasteland. The NE inner city was a complete no go area. Likewise the area around Fatima Mansions, Dolphins Barn and Teresa's Gardens. Lots of the inner suburbs were very rough like Crumlin, Drimnagh, Cabra. Lots of the outer suburbs also.

All of this has changed for the better.

whisky_galore

How is it that millions are fired at drug treatment centres and the likes of Peter McV and the NGO industry (because it pretty much is an industry) and the problems only get worse, not better??

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592819#Comment_121592819

You must walk around London with your eyes closed if you dont see that

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592307#Comment_121592307

RE public pay talks, there's two sides to this coin.

People will pay for a properly run police service, but AGS seems to be anything but. We've had numerous scandals over the years from the rank and file to the commissioner, so I can see why people are loathe to give more money to a organization which is prone to a bit of light corruption and abuses of power.

dxhound2005

Second world at worst.

saabsaab

Just close down Dublin altogether and leave it to the junkies and troublemakers.

kravmaga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592058#Comment_121592058

Read the report, its not safe , period, Im glad its closed and they need to close more around the mid abbey street area, its turned into a cesspit.

You must live in a leafy surburb, I work in the city centre so its a plain as day that these laneways are a hive of anti social behaviour.

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2024/0109/1425496-dublin-laneway/

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593006#Comment_121593006

The North Inner City you mean.

South Coastal Dublin is the nicest and wealthiest part of the country by an absolute mile.

Quitelife

The South Inner city is going the same way , West Moreland street seems to have a growing number of people selling drugs and temple bar has all the drug addicts hassling people for money and attacking people later in the night .

Its not much better in rural Ireland with travellers controlling a growing number of towns and villages after their garda stations were closed or downgraded to an hour a day .

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592029#Comment_121592029

There was more violent crime on that street (formerly Sackville Street, now O'Connell Street) 110 years ago than there is today.

C.S. Andrew grew up around Summerhill in the 1900s and 1910s and in his memoir of that era he mentions there were daily fistfights around the north end of Sackville Street.

nachouser

What a pain! It was such a handy spot if you were caught short and needed to take a sh*t.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593033#Comment_121593033

It's funny how closing a laneway, that nobody but drug addicts use, deserves a feature on the national news.

You swear they were closing Grafton St.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593116#Comment_121593116

The corner of Westmoreland St by the Circle K shop has been a druggie spot for decades. From there all the way to the Oliver Bond Flats is a druggie spot.

I think the dealers re-up in the flats and then deal by Merchants Quay, the Council HQ and then on that corner.

The Kinahans have supplied and controlled Oliver Bond Flats for decades. Apparently Greg Lynch runs it for them.

Rural Ireland is fine. Drugs have spread there but mostly coke, pils, weed. Not really heroin. There's some rural depopulation and some towns are slowly dying but it's fine in general.

I don't think travellers control anything. They're outcasts nearly everywhere.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592286#Comment_121592286

Ah, the halcyon days. When everything stank of pi$$.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593179#Comment_121593179

Yeah Westmoreland St corner has always been full of never do wells.

Again, if the state fitted them with ASBOs and tags and lumped them off to jail when they breach bail by entering the city centre, the problems could be massivley reduced very quickly.

The problem is we have no jail space and no political will to hurt anyones feelings.

Ryath

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593153#Comment_121593153

It's admitting that parts of the city are no go area's. Yes not many of the public venture down it, it doesn't save much time to use as a short cut. Plenty of businesses have delivery and staff entrances on it so it's not just junkies that use it. Don't really see how closing it helps it will just move the problem elsewhere without proper policing.

I'm sure this upstanding fellow is just out for a jog!

BlueSkyDreams

Is Litton Lane next for the chop?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593230#Comment_121593230

It's funny there was phone boxes there which were perfect for dealing and drug use.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593258#Comment_121593258

It might make the Abbey St Luas stop a little safer.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593269#Comment_121593269

O'Connell Street next..

Larbre34

Of course its not Third World, its just bad government.

Some of the most dangerous cities in the World are firmly in the First World. Cities WAAAAAY more dangerous than Dublin.

10 of the most dangerous cities in the World are in the United States.

Of the 50 most dangerous cities and towns in geographical Europe, Dublin is 30th. Which is lower than Drogheda!! (Drogheda is a kip tbf)

Coventry, Marseille, Naples, Sarajevo, Athens, Grenoble, Malmo, London, Paris; all less safe than Dublin.

Most unsafe City in all Europe? Bradford....

AllForIt

Eddie Mullins CEO of Merchants Quay Ireland (whatever that is) said on RTE News that Dublin was renowned for it's backstreets. Renowned??? Maybe he meant to say infamous.

Also a Green Party councillor seemed agitated that lanesways all over Dublin are being closed and forgotten about. So bloody what they're only grotty laneways, hardly visitor attractions.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593763#Comment_121593763

I think he means Temple Bar and Grafton St area.

I think the GP councillor was agitated because it's defeatist to just close it. It's not a solution, just a band aid.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593817#Comment_121593817

I think he means Temple Bar and Grafton St area.

Yeah probably, but they're not back of shop type laneways.

I didn't see the GP councillor make any suggestions as to what should be done with them.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593862#Comment_121593862

The obvious solution is addiction services, early intervention, mental health investment etc..all those type of social programs.

Heroin and Opioid addiction is dropping in Ireland.

There was an article a couple of years ago that there's a huge reduction in young people but for older people it's the same.

Quitelife

The government don’t seem to care how lawless Dublin City or other parts of the country becomes , Fine Gael were once a party of law and order but that’s gone out the window in the last 10/15 years , you’d imagine Fianna Fáil would have some regard for protecting people but don’t seem to want to rock the boat , all makes great news for criminals and bad news for law abiding people.

Scipri0

Like even just a few weeks back during Christmas they said they'd be increasing patrols, yeah that's good, but it shouldn't be a temporary thing for the Christmas period, It should be done year round. The country is too soft on crime and with some people with multiple suspended sentences being left out, that's to their Solicitor getting them off.

The ones gaining from this are solicitors and the judges, they have mostly the same people on tap in and out of the courts and every time they get paid for it, no matter if it's by the state in the way of free legal aid.

OneEightSeven

My bus stop was across the road from this place in the early 2000s, outside the Methodist Church. In my memories, it's synonymous with the putrid smell of urine. It's narrower than most alleyways I've seen and there are some sheltered spots, which makes it more attractive to homeless people and junkies.

It's only a good thing they're closing it down, it means the Gardai will have fewer streets to patrol and concentrate their manpower elsewhere. The only people who have any business passing through are the employees working in the adjacent businesses, delivery trucks and refuse trucks.

leath_dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592198#Comment_121592198

I agree 100% with this.

I took a walk along the length of O'Connell Street a few days after the riots. Aesthetically jt is a beautiful Street - Tree lined , steeped in history, some magnificent buildings (e.g. Gresham, GPO, Clerys, etc). Then you see the derelict Carlton cinema site, sll the seedy casinos, fast food restaurants etc. None of these ae befitting the main thoroughfare of the capital city. No Gardai, of course

O'Connell Street has been abandoned and let go to ruin by the city council and the Gardai over many years and there is no will to return it to it's former status

Carlito Brigantes Tale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592865#Comment_121592865

People in social housing work.

Viscount Aggro

People are calling this street closure, a defeat for the people of Dublin .... Its a victory.

Let them live or work nearby.

I worked very close to the area, and one morning there were 2 corpses found in Harbour Court.. didnt even make the news.

The Euro-giant shop on Abbey street sells 2 Euro crutches.

randd1

There was a report of a woman on the paper the other day with over 800 convictions. I don't see how anyone can say that the Guards are to blame when they're bringing, repeatedly, criminals before the courts only to see them walk out.

The legal-for-profit system, utter disdain for doing anything at political level, and a fair whack of influence from human rights/social science/mental health types on behalf of criminals, these are to people to blame.

Criminals have more rights than victims because they're seen as victims themselves, they're treated like cash cows by the legal system, and politicians are happy for it to ahead because they don't want to tackle it.

I don't think it's as bad in general as people make out, but it should be better than what we have. The Guards are actually doing their job, but any system that allows someone to rack up 800 convictions needs a serious examination. It should simply not be happening.

At the rate we're going, we're looking at vigilante groups to what the courts and the political system seem disinclined to do; keep people safe.

Cheddar Bob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058330473/if-gardai-cannot-police-beside-capitals-main-street-is-it-third-world

If you think Dublin is underpoliced you need to travel a bit.

I'd be up the North quite a bit and I couldn't tell you what a PSNI uniform looks like or even a squad car. I've honestly never seen one.

Try Australia, police foot patrols are completely unheard of and you would see things on the main throughfares of Sydney simply unthinkable here.