I want an EV but you've all scared and confused me

AvalonEnaid

Heya!

So I've been reading this forum for a bit and looking at EV cars and the conclusion I keep arriving at is that it's remarkably complex to find an EV that is not overpriced, has good battery health, and has a future proof charger. I'm confused to what the story behind CHAdeMO is and it keeps getting worse because an old aphorism comes to mind... "Opinions are like <bleep>, everyone has one."

Having worked from home for the past 4 years, I changed jobs that now requires me to be in the office Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Luckily the office is only a 34 km round trip and so I thought that an EV is the perfect fit over a ICE banger.

However, I'm completely unsure of what EV to purchase. There are so many leafs available to purchase but from what I've read, anything before 2015 is taking a massive risk because the "chemistry" of the batteries are poor and it uses resistive heating as opposed to the newer models that use a heat pump. Then other research shows that if the battery bar count of the leaf is under 10 then don't bother, but at the same time it's possible to fake those bars?

My requirements are not too much to ask for, but in some ways it also is. I already own a ICE banger (2019 Toyota Corolla Hybrid) but the wife needs that for her job, which makes the EV the car I'll be using to get to and from work, and maybe a few trips into town which can be a maximum of 8 km round trip.

My work is a 34 km round trip with a total of 17.8 km being the M2. I must also add that if the speed limit is 120 km/h, I'm travelling at 120 km/h 😅

I'm also not phased about resale value because I intend to drive the car till it is written off in a prang, or I die. But I am worried about how long the battery will last, can I get the battery replaced after say 5/10/15 years? It seems to me that the automakers are hesitant on this front because they're stopping production of EV cars.

The sticking points for me is that I will not spend a single cent over €10,000 and I absolutely do not want to install a Type 2 charger at my house. My thinking here is because the purpose of the car is to get me to and from work (which has charging stations), a Type 2 is unnecessary because I can charge at work, or in the worst case scenario charge via the wall socket which I believe is possible. Granted it'll take many hours but surely I can plug it in at night and have enough charge to make it to work?

And there you have it. What the heck am I supposed to do? It makes sense to me to purchase an EV because of the short distance I'll be travelling, or I could visit the bangernomics thread and just grab something off there, but I really do like the idea of owning an EV...

AvalonEnaid

Correction before everyone jumps down my throat:

It seems to me that the automakers are hesitant on this front because they're *** dialling back / postponing / curbing *** production of EV cars.

Buddy Bubs

Only leaf, Zoe or fluence available under 10k. Do you like any of them?

If not buy something else.

I've a more modern EV and I'll never buy an ICE again but if I was buying a 2nd hand car for 10k it would be an ICE

listermint

Aim to install a type 2 charger, try get an ioniq 28kwh addition loosen your budget about 1k or so. They're coming into that range and hit all your marks.

But do the installer it makes sense.

Oops!

Out of interest why would you describe a 2019 Corolla Hybrid a "ICE banger"?

On another note you really are only looking for a cheap second car run around that will be reliable, not let you down and last as long as you want it to and not cost a fortune in running costs....

I fear you are looking down the wrong road and wanting an EV for the wrong reasons.

...Ghost...

Looking at Leafs? Any 2014 or higher has the newer battery chemistry. You won't need a type 2 charger at home. Leaf takes a type 1 unless you buy the new shape Leaf from 2018+. 😋

Don't be worrying about the industry and what it's doing. Once you own an EV and have access to electricity, who cares what the manufacturers are doing?

Also you can charge a Leaf from an outdoor socket overnight, no problem from empty to full.

Here's a nice Leaf. Low enough mileage too. Enjoy

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-2016-low-miles-ready-to-go/33742014

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576700#Comment_121576700

Why, an ev will do all those things and very very well.

Oops!

Without knowing the rest of the OP's circumstances and only going on the information provided my advice is he is contemplating buying an EV for the wrong reasons. I get asked a similar question at least once a week on this topic from people in similar circumstances and scenario's.... and for the majority of the time an EV is not a suitable option.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578098#Comment_121578098

We can only use the information posted by the OP. The primary part of the question is what EV is best to buy. It is possible that the answer is to not buy an EV at all, but then maybe the answer is to buy a bicycle, or use public transport. However, I tend to work with the details provided and if necessary, request more info. The info provided was enough for me to recommend a cheap EV based on the needs expressed.

Oops!

Yep all true.... At the end of the day we are all just expressing an opinion and giving our views on the OP's questions and trying to help.

Greengrass53

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578472#Comment_121578472

Correct

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578098#Comment_121578098

Genuinely wondering, as I'm trying to think through the ups and downs re possibly buying EV, as to what you think are the correct reasons for going EV.

Thanks.

Furze99

€10K - EV? Without any battery issues, run around that will last you years? :)

Neighbour has a Leaf and only observation I can add is that they don't/ can't use it in winter as too fecking cold.

Oops!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578602#Comment_121578602

If i'm correct in saying the OP Is looking for a trouble free run around second car with a budget of 10k an EV is the wrong direction to be looking from a practical point.... Now if his heart is set on a EV and that's his choice well his options are very limited.... The practical solution to his situation is a Yaris/Swift that will go forever with little a little maintenance once a year and will still be worth something when he's finished with it.

Oops!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578602#Comment_121578602

It all depends on alot of factors, your location, needs, what's practical for you. I work in a multi franchise dealership and i always try to have a chat with owners of EV's when the are in with their cars about their real world experiences of living with them and basically are they living up to their expectations...... From the person that's only going down the town once a week, people living in/commuting to citytown areas, people living in a very rural area that depends on their car to take them everywhere to the Taxi drivers that use them for a living.....

As you can imagine you will get some very different opinions. Me personally? You can send me a PM if you like an answer to that.

glen123

Hi OP, I've had 172 Leaf 30kWh for just over 2 years. Steadily does 150km in summer and 120km in winter (99% of the time I don't do more than 100km a day so suits me fine). At 120km/h driving speed the above ranges would be a bit lower all right. It already saved me over 5k in both fuel costs (I only charge it at home at cheap night rate) and tolls while tolls were half price which sadly ended now. I paid 13k for it in 2021. I wasn't sure whether I was going to like driving an EV so decided to go for something relatively cheap besides my old car had to be replaced anyway and since we also have another petrol car in the household (that is rarely driven now), it was a no brainer for us to give it a go.

Leaf maybe isn't the best looking car, but they are pretty reliable and spacious with decent size boot. As someone mentioned above, you can charge it from a normal socket to full overnight (I did that for more than a year using a granny charger and an outside socket on the garage and it was fine). I only installed a proper charger because I got solar panels installed, otherwise I would have kept using granny cable.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578602#Comment_121578602

Everyone will have their own reasons. Some will just want the latest tech, while other want the smooth drive, or high torque an EV offers. I can tell you my reasons and hopefully that gives you some insight. If you want to share your own circumstances, including budget, current car, needs and what your driving entails annually, there are people on here who will advise the best option and if EV is just not suitable, most of us will say so.

We are a 2 car family with kids. In 2017 we owned a 2003 Mercedes E200K which was my daily driver. We also owned a 2006 Opel Zafira.

EV1:

I was giving up work to go to college full time and wanted to buy something with low running costs. I bought a Top Spec 2014 Leaf from the UK for £11k cash and sold the Merc for about €2k privately. The exchange rate meant I spent €13.5k including the cost my myself and my Wife to travel to London and bring it back. I saved a good 3k compared to an Irish one. A home charger cost me about €500. Cost to change was ~€12k. The logic was that the cash would have been flittered away, but the Leaf locked in savings for years to come. Insurance was a bit cheaper. Tax was 500 cheaper per year. My fuel cost went from €200 to less than €10 per month due to free public charging. After 5 years of daily driver ownership, I have saved an average of 2k per year on fuel and 500 in tax. Ignoring the servicing costs I would have seen with the Merc, I saved €12.5 on tax and fuel alone. I still have that Leaf which is worth at least 5k today. It's our second car now used by my Wife and our son.

EV2:

The EV became the main car, so much so that nobody wanted to drive the Zafira which sat on the drive for months. We saw a bargain 2012 Leaf for 5.5k on DD and picked it up that day for 5k cash. I think we sold the Zafira for around 1-1.5k at the time, so cost to change was around 3.5-4k. The Zafira was only using €50 per month at the time thanks to the first EV. Tax saving €400. Annual saving of 1k. Kept for 5 years with less maintence. Car paid for itself. Sold for nearly what I bought it for when I switched to...

EV3:

Due to job change, I needed a longer range EV. After some messing about, I ordered a Tesla Model 3 RWD for about €54k. Financed 40k for 5 years as I didn't have the cash laying around 1 year after getting my degree. It has more than the range I need and I never get tired of driving it.

The first 2 EVs were for saving money after the initial lay-out. The Tesla was about sticking with my preferred fuel type and getting something I really wanted. I had ordered a new 40kWh Leaf, but Nissan had dropped the ball on delivery and price after the order and I went with Tesla....the only manufacturer who could deliver within 3 months. I think I only waited 2 or 3 weeks after ordering.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578644#Comment_121578644

Yeah, I am that example. Have a 2014 Leaf since 2017 which was the main car until the end of 2022. No battery issues. Still at about 75% SOH after 10 years of age. Still used daily. It's out with the family as I write this. The Leaf also comes with very modern technology which can heat the car before and during the drive. The older Leafs will lose about 20% range if heating is on though, so your neighbour could save a few pennies by wearing a jumper 😉

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121579426#Comment_121579426

They use an older diesel car in the colder winter months!! But get good use from the EV in summer months.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058329827/i-want-an-ev-but-youve-all-scared-and-confused-me

I own a EV, highly recommend them. Will hopefully have two soon. If I was you I would buy a cheap 10k car combustion and fire ahead. You won't get a decent EV for under 10k at the moment.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578952#Comment_121578952

He literally said he has a 17km trip to work and back few times a week. If he can pick up the likes of an ioniq 28kw it will be trouble free motoring and far nicer than sitting in your swift or yaris. Ultimately cheaper to run and less hassle too.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580419#Comment_121580419

Nothing like that to be got for €10K

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580440#Comment_121580440

I did say loosen the budget a tad. Can see this shaping into this zone this year.

Redfox25

Ionic 28 would be ideal, if your not in a mad rush, then keep an eye out for one of these and prepare to haggle, it should be doable for 10k cash and the car would likely last you several years with that sort of driving. For longer drives, it charges relatively fast for the size battery so its a good enough road tripper.

Happy motoring whatever you get.

zg3409

Your options are Zoe or leaf. I would avoid Zoe as cheap ones don't have CCS/Chademo charging. I would avoid 24kWh battery and go for larger 30kWh battery. Chademo on the leaf is ok if you don't go long distances but having it means you can go on a longer trip if the other car is in use.

So my recommendation is a 30kWh leaf. In terms of batteries it's unlikely the battery will ever needs replacing. The range reduces over years, but still ok. In case of a fault a single cell can be replaced, not the whole pack.

In terms of home charging you can use any ordinary 3 pin outlet but it may take 10+ hours to recharge. Ideally use an outside socket that's brand new as old worn sockets can overheat and go on fire.

In terms of range, real world range at worst case high speed motorway, freezing temperatures (like today) and possibly head winds and rain will impact range so the larger battery sizes are desirable. If you go bargain basement 24kWh then you may get a shock and not make it home sone day.

The ioniq 28kWh is a great car with faster CCS faster charging, battery cooling, but getting one for 10k would be a challenge.

I think going for a Yaris or similar will work out costing more to run long term.

KAGY

If all the OP needs the car for is that commute, then an ev should suit.

I'm driving a 2015 24kW leaf at 10 bars, and typically do 100k a day on regional roads. Occasionally I may have to top up 5 or 6 kwh at home or work if there's an extra shopping, match or training run to do.

It doesn't do long trips well though, had to drive it to Dublin, (120k each way) and it was a exercise in madness, 3 charging stops and had to visit 3 differernt charging points before i got it charged for the trip back. (ICED, broken, and 30min wait).

We have a PHEV for the longer trips though.

One other consideration, is that any car that age , ev or ice, will start having issues so won't be hassle free

Gumbo

Seen this on FB today

Redfox25

Reckon you could get that for 10k

AvalonEnaid

Thank you everyone for your replies. I've read it all multiple times and appreciate the opinions given. It's always good to have my own thoughts challenged to make sure any decision taken is the most optimal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121578098#Comment_121578098

If you could elaborate more on what circumstances you are looking for?

I am a home owner and it's not on street parking. When speaking with electricians about installing an outside charger they said it's easy because the location of the distribution board and where the car is parked are both nearby each other (within 3 meters).

I also do not need the car yesterday (but the sooner the better) and while I can drop my wife off at work for a few days, she will eventually need the car to travel to clients and this will make planning a nightmare. I don't like work enough to be there 3 hours before or after my contract times!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576649#Comment_121576649

What would the advantages be of getting a Type 2 charger installed (Apart from a faster charging times)?

I'm hesitant to install a Type 2 charger because it's an extra cost and my work has charging points already. It seems like a waste of money just to be able to charge in 30 minutes and not 10 hours for a car that travels just 34 km per day three days a week.

----

Regarding the Leaf / Zoe / Ioniq;

I'm not a person that places too much emphasis on the looks of a car. Among the 10k range of cars, the first generation leaf is ugly to my eyes, but it's not a deal breaker in any way. I just want to get to and from work 3 times a week on a 34 km round trip.

From my research there isn't much servicing required on EVs. There are some standard checks regarding lubricants and fluids, but it's far less than your normal ICE. EVs are mostly hassle free from what I understand. My main concern is the battery health and I don't know what I should be looking for? I'll be raging if I buy a 2015 EV (There are A LOT on sale) and 2 years from now the range is 50km.

Given our temperate climate and an average of winter 7'C for day time I'm quite surprised the Irish winters are harsh on battery ranges. Would I be in danger of not having enough charge for just 3 days a week?

A couple of posters have mentioned if an EV is the correct choice; So let's imagine I do pull the trigger and begrudgingly loosen my budget and somehow manage to snag a 28kw Ioniq for 12k. Under what circumstance would that not be an ideal buy? What am I overlooking in owning an EV that will introduce more trouble over a ICE?

----

And for the most important question ;)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576700#Comment_121576700

I just like calling all cars a "banger" even though I know it's not technically correct given the cars age.

Water John

Go ahead, buy an EV, you know it makes sense. Good pointers from a few above.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583079#Comment_121583079

Is 10K even too much given the massive km’s on it ?

bootser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583249#Comment_121583249

I sold my 171 Ioniq the middle of last year for 12k, it had 212k kilometers on it. If that car has had the gearbox fluid changed and is running perfectly(as advertised),then personally I'd be more than happy to pay 10k for it (if I was in the market).

I would guarantee the OP would be absolutely delighted with it if he was to get into one!

I still miss mine!!😪

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583314#Comment_121583314

Cars have dropped in value quite a bit since then. I’d say sub €10k would be possible.

bootser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583599#Comment_121583599

Maybe... but still too many dreamers on DD atm, when I was selling mine it was the cheapest up there but currently the cheapest is 14k admittedly with under 100kms.

But if the gearbox oil has been replaced then I wouldn't be at all concerned about the mileage considering the OPs requirements. That car should last a VERY long time.

...Ghost...

The Ioniq a few posts back would be worth 9k as long as the GB oil is done. Perfect for the OP.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121583142#Comment_121583142

Future proofing your options and basically a filling station on your driveway.

Work charging is never guaranteed especially with more EVs being bought by people. Don't rely on it being defacto available.

big_show

Can someone fill me in on the gear box oil change? How often should it be done?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584891#Comment_121584891

80k klms or 5 years, whatever comes first

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584891#Comment_121584891

https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/diy-reduction-gear-fluid-change-how-to-for-ioniq-ev-28-kwh.38147/

Details here.

Jofspring

Leaf will be ideal for the amount of driving you are doing if you need to keep costs below 10k. You have a second car for longer trips so you don't have to worry about the longer range.

The problem with you getting an EV is that you will enjoy the drive of it so much you will want to upgrade to an even nicer one.

Definitely worth getting a home charger installed. For no other reason other than it will future proof the house and make it handier if you need a quicker top up. You wouldn't need to rush to get the charger though and can always add that down the line.

Not sure about the comment about someone not using a leaf in the winter because they want to stay warm/the cold? I average about 35km a day in my 30Kwh leaf. One of the beauties of the car is the fact I come out every morning to a warm car with clear windows. Makes getting the kids to school much easier too having a warm car to get into. (Car does need to be plugged in for pre-heating though). If it's because the drop in range I don't find it drops enough to affect my day to day driving. In summer I'm now getting 140-150km and in winter 115-130km

Personally I'd want to change my leaf for only two reasons, a more modern car and bigger range. Do I need the range badly, absolutely not as we have a second car in the house for longer trips, but it would be nice to have it. Do I need a more modern car, probably not but I do like more modern cars with bells and whistles but budget constraints held me back intially.

Chademo will be phased out but I have my leaf coming up on 3 years and have used the fast charger maybe 10 times and that's at a push.

zg3409

>somehow manage to snag a 28kw Ioniq >for 12k. Under what circumstance would >that not be an ideal buy? What am I >overlooking in owning an EV that will >introduce more trouble over a ICE?

Ioniq has 5 year bumper to bumper warranty. 8 year 200,000km battery warranty. (Newer models only 160,000km).

The car you buy may be out of general warranty or even all warranty. Any car 24/28/30kWh battery is a bit obsolete these days, most never cars are 60+kWh and available from 20k euro+ with longer warranty etc.

So an ioniq 28kWh for 10k is good value but double battery size for 20k is probably a better buy. If something major goes wrong out of warranty. There are known issues with Ioniq like all cars such as rear wheel abs sensors tend to go at 100,000km and cost 450 euro per side. (Both tend to go). The gearbox oil change is to try prevent a gearbox failure which has happened to some people under warranty. Other smaller known issues but in general the car has a better battery and faster charging than equivalent leaf. Allow a few thousand for future repairs and you may be ok.

Depreciation is probably biggest cost of ownership so try to buy well and haggle and this may reduce impact of depreciation when you go to sell down the line. Used EVs are not selling right now, more supply than demand.

AvalonEnaid

Thank you everyone for your input.

After a lot of searching and researching, I have completed the purchase for a 2018 Nissan Leaf (SOH = 89.78%), no rust, 64k km, and it comes with a lot of bells and whistles (ProPILOT, heated seats etc.. etc..)

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638779#Comment_121638779

Congrats on the purchase. There is a Nissan Leaf sub forum in here if you need to ask any questions. Also a home charger forum, both usually on page 1.

Patser

@AvalonEnaid

Type 2 is pretty much the standard charger for all home cars now, it's not to be confused with the fast chargers that you get on motorways. It's been adopted as the type of connection across the board in the EU for all cars from now on. The older Type 1 really only existed for original Leafs. So if you ask for a home charger it'll be Type 2 - unless you expressly get them to dig out a really old Type 1.

As for car, there is a bit of a price war kicking off amongst new Electric Cars, and that is still slowly filtering down through 2nd hand cars - people who spent big a few years ago are slow to admit their car has gone down a lot, so prices could change quite a lot over the next short time. Considering a brand new MG4 350km range is now available for around €27k, people looking for 15 or 16k for 4 year old Leafs or Ioniqs might need to readjust (as well as nearly everyone else all the way up the ladder)

The range you regularly drive, and having a driveway makes you the perfect EV owner - if you have a smart meter and can charge at night, even better as night rates are incredibly cheap.

My recommendations -

If you like a fun car to drive, with beautiful interior but quirkly outside. and little space - get the BMW i3 - with a rex if possible or 94ah battery if not, they are starting to drop to near €10k

Want space for 2 adults, 3 kids and decent boot - Ioniq is better that Leaf IMO

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639955#Comment_121639955

The OP has already purchased a Nissan Leaf. See post #42

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121638779#Comment_121638779

How much did you get it for?

Patser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640045#Comment_121640045

My bad!

MojoMaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639955#Comment_121639955

Leaf ftw. Hard to go wrong with one.

AvalonEnaid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640110#Comment_121640110

11500

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641139#Comment_121641139

This one? Best of luck regardless

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/35465443

AvalonEnaid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641153#Comment_121641153

That's the one.