Should older people be "forced" to change?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574870#Comment_121574870

Out of interest, what age range are you talking about here when you say "old people"? "Old people" tend to say uncensored things not out of embaraassment or shock, but more out of not giving a **** what you think or how you feel about it.

You can't change the way people think - all you can do is change the law to limit what people can do - but do you really think it's a good idea to change a law just to get people to conform?

Andy From Sligo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575191#Comment_121575191

I call 'Old People' people that are older than me LOL - no, I most probably am talking of people in their 80's ... possibly 75 onwards at the moment ... maybe even younger in their 50's even .

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575254#Comment_121575254

In that case I was right. They say what they want and don't give a **** what you think. Most of them know theyt haven't got long to live, so don't really need to care. All the forcing in the world won't change that - you're talking eugenics at this point and I don't think there's the apetitite.

One eyed Jack

if something has been forced onto somebody is that a good thing? - is there any difference between someone acting differently in public ... but behind closed doors having all their same views intact?

It’s a good thing to force people to change their ways when they’re making other people’s lives miserable, and yes there’s a difference between someone acting differently in public, but behind closed doors having all their opinions intact - the general public doesn’t have to suffer them making a nuisance of themselves.

That’s never been restricted to old people though - it applies to everyone regardless of age, etc. It’s why the system of laws and government have evolved to be what they are now, and that’s a good thing for most people, not a good thing for anyone who is inclined to want to make other people’s lives miserable.

Patrick2010

When I see Andy opening a thread I just go to last page and see the reaction to his latest nonsense

saabsaab

Of course they shouldn't be forced to change. Back in the day we learned to use Lsd or pounds shillings and pence the old imperial system of currency. It worked fine and went much further. You could get a pint for 2 and 6d around 1970. Not only that but Garda advice was no more than four! if driving, very civilized. More if you could 'carry it'..

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576425#Comment_121576425

Four what? Pounds of lsd...? Surprised they could walk!

animalinside

People like the OP and others into the woke nonsense often seem to think that it's sort of like some kind of addictive vice or tendency that people know is "wrong" but sometimes slip into. Sort of like if you got annoyed with someone and then had to calm yourself again reasoning that it's not their fault and to act good in future.

In reality the vast majority of people who dislike wokeism are perfectly happy with their beliefs and tendencies regarding it - and while you are entitled to your views they are no more valid than theirs. Expecting the to change - what? How do you know they didn't start off as a crazed woke person and now be expected to change into more suspicion based on the modern unfurling of stuff such as trans people in sports?

It's incredible how strong the tendency is to slip into some sort of quasi-religious fervour for some people and the Church of Wokeism is it in modern times I believe.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121581414#Comment_121581414

How the hell did you manage to shoehorn "woke" into the conversation....? It's nothing to do with woke.

Older people with attitudes you might not be comfortable and their reasons for expressing them is about as far from woke as you can get.

The J Stands for Jay

...

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573097#Comment_121573097

Many of them can figure things out without being shown.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573137#Comment_121573137

Any time someone says something like that, I hear "I don't want the gays/wimmin/children/foreigns/that funny looking lad from down the road to be allowed to say or do anything now these days"

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573207#Comment_121573207

Could you give an example of the wrong terminology you want to use?

_Kaiser_

To be fair, the western world has changed massively in the last 20/30 years with the rise of accessible-to-anyone (rather than just tech nerds) Internet and particularly social media - and not always for the better given the divisive conflicts on social issues and politics today.

The signs of problems were evident back in the late 80s/early 90s when we all got access to Sky TV. Sure we got loads of new channels, classic American TV shows and movies etc but also the inward gazing talk shows of the day. We all laughed at the ridiculousness of Jerry Springer and so on but it's where this "nothing is your fault - it's the system, your disadvantaged upbringing, and you are a special flower" ideology has its genesis.

Back in those days the more outlandish or ridiculous voices were confined to the tabloids and small corners of the Internet, but now anyone with a smart phone can transmit his crazy thought for the day to (in theory) most of the planet instantly!

Add to these the need in many people for approval and validation and when combined with the first with the second factors above, we find ourselves in an increasingly divided and hyper-sensitive and tense society which is becoming increasingly isolated and siloed as more people are fed up with the general noise of it all. Plus no one wants to be told that their entire outlook is wrong so they'll naturally seek out other like-minded people, thus speeding the social divisions and subsequently the problems that arise.

For me as someone in his late 40s, I ignore the majority of what is posted online. Being very honest, I have no real interest in things like Palastine or Ukraine or the other hot topics of the day. Don't get me wrong, I feel sympathy for the victims and innocents regardless of the "side", but I don't feel the need to post support about it or protest on Irish streets and I know that ultimately it'll change nothing. These issues will need to be solved by the actual parties involved. We have our own serious and in many cases worsening problems to deal with right here.

The huge focus on identity politics and culture wars in the last few years in particular leaves me with one question - what makes us so "wise" that in the space of half a decade we can throw out generations of thought and views practically overnight?

Don't misunderstand me here either, there are a lot of things that should be moved on from, but most of these new standards are coming from that same country (the USA) that started most of these problems in the first place with the "special flower" ideology, and given the state of that country nowadays (socially and politically), they're hardly a model to follow - which is also why we see problems here! You can't just copy and paste the culture of a completely different society into another, no matter how similar or aspirational they might seem on the surface of prime time TV.

Of course in Ireland the instinct for approval and validation and being told what to do/think/believe is strong given our history as is the need to demonstrate compliance and right-think. Anyone who questions that with should think of the begrudgery, curtain-twitching, and keeping up with the Joneses that is still very much a part of Ireland and came out very much so during Covid.

To be fair we're a small island surrounded by bigger players and influencers - the UK, the US and to a much lesser extent socially Europe, but we should still try to find/maintain our own way/identity despite this, and that doesn't mean necessarily throwing out everything that we learned/believed till now.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121573027#Comment_121573027

Here here, although certain aspects of society do naturally change with time which is a good thing. Can't help noticing in recent years that couple of agendas are being foisted & driven upon society, hence older people kick back and say no that's not right, and neither is it true ...

JupiterKid

No, you cannot force or coerce older people to change. Last time I checked, we lived in a democracy.

As a middle aged gay guy myself, I am more than aware that many older people harbour very bigoted views with respect to minorities but you can educate and inform people - if they are willing to listen.

You can also let people know that airing their views in certain company is not welcome or acceptable, but at the end of the day, you cannot force change. That just causes kickback and resentment.

Also, many older people are actually very tolerant and open-minded - certainly more so than many younger adults.

Andy From Sligo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584359#Comment_121584359

letting people know that airing their views in certain company is not welcome or acceptable can also come across as 'telling them what to do and how to behave and what to say" so a form of 'forcing them' maybe to change their way but a nice way of doing it?

This is exactly what i mean - if older people want to carry on how they have done all their life should anyone have the right to pick them up on anything? - is it within other peoples rights to 'set them straight' or pick them up on something ... well with exception maybe the official section say for example like police authority if say they were being threatening with their language / actions.

if people have to be told how to behave/talk in public then that's changing a person into something they are obviously not ... whether its done in a nice way or an authorities way

we are supposed to be living in a free society in countries like this , why should certain people be telling other people how they should react/live and how they talk to other people - in that case where has freedom of speech for example gone to all of a sudden as the years have gone on?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584936#Comment_121584936

Seeing as the idea of "letting people know that airing their views in certain company is not welcome or acceptable" is what you want to achieve, then YOU should be made aware that expressing bigoted ageist views is not welcome or acceptable.

If YOU "want to carry on how they have done all [your] life", then maybe we should have the right to pick YOU up on it and set YOU straight.

And as it's YOU who "has to be told how to behave/talk in public" then the question is, should YOU be "forced to change"?