Rented house to County Council for 10 years lots of damage after getting it back

downtheroad

Just sell it to the council, make it their problem to restore

AndrewJRenko

What does your solicitor advise? The one who reviewed your contract with the Council initially, if possible.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553706#Comment_121553706

😂😂

the O Reilly connection

What was the council paying you?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561402#Comment_121561402

Is that in some way relevant to the damage done and condition of the property when the tenancy ended? Surely you aren’t going to insinuate that the amount of rent paid should in some way absolve the tenant of their obligation not to wreck the place.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561402#Comment_121561402

That's totally irrelevant. Agree with post above this.

Spook_ie

Well according to

https://www.housingagency.ie/housing-information/information-property-owners-and-landlords

then it depends on which agreement was entered into who was responsible for what

Enter Username Here

To answer some of the questions and to hopefully update anything that I may have left out (there is a lot to it and I may still leave out things):

I bought the house with a relative. My relative got married and I bought them out. Before they got married we decided that we would rent to the council as my relative was moving in with their partner and I could not afford to live there alone as well as other complications.

The first tenant lived there for five years and there were no issues once they had moved out. There were a few minor issues, but nothing that you wouldn't expect or could not address yourself.

After the first tenant, a person from the council did walk around with me and take note of any repairs that were needed and how much it would cost to put the house back into a rentable state.

They then sent a cheque for €3000 for us to get it back to said state. We painted and repaired what we could, and got professionals to do what I couldn't. By the time it was ready for rent again there was €135.75 left.

The council did an inspection and then it was let to the 2nd tenant. This contract was only for me, and foolishly I did not involve a solicitor and was handed a new contract mid tenancy that I assumed was much the same (YES - I KNOW THIS WAS A MASSIVE MISTAKE), I cannot find anything in the contract that changed or allowed for maximum payment of €900. 

At the end of the 2nd tenants 5 years, I had to move back in, as where i was renting (small 1 bed) were wanting their apartment back again. I gave my notice to the council and was asked if I could hold off for a year, I said I couldn't but I would try for 6 months. In the end they got the year.

In July the payments stopped and I contacted them to ask why. I contacted them to ask what was happening and they then told me that the tenant had moved out in May. I asked why I wasn't informed and was told she didn't know. I was then contacting them for a few weeks trying to get my keys, they told me that they didn't have them and eventually I had to meet the old tenant beside where they now live on the street, so that they could hand over the keys to me.

I have all of the reports that have been done to quote for work needed on my house (I am now living in it), and receipts for everything that I have had to do on it.

I was told to stop sending them photos of the issues I was still coming across a few months back and that there is no point, the don't want the emails.

The last phone call I made to themI said that no matter what they tell me here, it was not anywhere close to the awful condition it is in today, and if I asked them to call in to rent it from me, they wouldn't take it off me it is so bad.

The rent was not enough to cover the mortgage each month. Both myself and my relative have had to pay extra for the mortgage from the start, and then obviously when I bought them out I had to pay it alone.

I am just trying to find out if there any other routes I could try to hold the council responsible that won't cost me a fortune and I may still lose. I do not have a fortune to spend.

Regards.

Seth Brundle

I am just trying to find out if there any other routes I could try to hold the council responsible that won't cost me a fortune and I may still lose. I do not have a fortune to spend.

Just talk to a solicitor who is familiar with this kind of work.

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575459#Comment_121575459

"I was told to stop sending them photos of the issues I was still coming across a few months back and that there is no point, they don't want the emails."

This saga of complete incompetence by an apathetic and uncaring Council deserves a far wider audience.

Without adopting the nuclear "Liveline" option, I'm sure that somewhere in the world of Irish journalism is an ambitious young spark who would would love to get their teeth into a story like this? Why not summarise the story that you have told above and email it off to a couple of radio and newspaper newsrooms. And then send it to your local opposition TDs and Councillors.

I'd also send it to Darragh "Jowls" O'Brien [ minister@housing.gov.ie ] and ask him whether he is satisfied with the performance of the Council in question.

Remember, if the Council gets away with treating you like a piece of dog crap, then they'll keep doing it to other people.

the O Reilly connection

If I was a landlord I wouldn't wait five years to carry out repairs. I would have inspections at least every year. If the tenant turns out to be that bad then throw them out straight away.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580546#Comment_121580546

If the tenant turns out to be that bad then throw them out straight away.

...and find yourself hauled into court on a losing battle fairly quickly

3DataModem

After any 10 year tenancy I'd expect the place to be a bit of a shambles.

• Electrical issues - I'm guessing 100-200 of sparks work, unless the damage is more than a blown fuse or burnt-out switch.
• Bath Overflow - OK that's pretty bad, but not 'entirely' unexpected in a 10 year tenancy.
• Back Door Lock - I'm guessing 100-200 of locksmith / joiner work.
• Insulation - Putting that back in the attic is not a huge job.
• Holes in the walls / Damaged tiles - after 10 years I'd expect a fair bit of that sort of damage. Tiles are annoying to fix, holes in the walls not so much.
• Broken toilet - depends how broken.
• Furniture - You left furniture in a 10 year tenancy? Of course it's going to be fit for a skip.

I'm not trying to play this down, or undermine your disappointment, but after 10 years I'd be expecting more or less a full refit of a let place.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121585342#Comment_121585342

I dont agree at all. What you are basically saying is that rental properties are lived in by complete animals and landlords should expect it to be wrecked. After 10 years I would expect to have to paint the property throughout, replace mattress's, maybe replace carpet and sofa etc ( only if necessary) - thats reasonable.

It is not reasonable for insulation to need to be replaced, tiles to be replaced or redone, holes in walls ( how the eff did that happen) and for alot of furniture to be replaced. People who own their own homes dont replace everything after 10 years!

Tenants should be held liable for any damage beyond whats reasonable to a house. People wonder why rents are so high - one of the reasons is because often a house has to be gutted after a tenant leaves. These people have no respect for anything whatsover and in my opinion should be left homeless. They have now in all likelihood been moved onto another lovely property owned by a trusting landlord whose house they will wreck again! This home costs them virtually nothing and there will be no consequences for them when they destroy the property. Ireland is a great country for wasters!

Hotblack Desiato

They have now in all likelihood been moved onto another lovely property owned by a trusting landlord whose house they will wreck again!

All courtesy of the taxpayer don't forget.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121585560#Comment_121585560

You can throw around should as much as you want; I'm telling it how it is.

1. People who don't pay for something don't respect it as much as those who do. That's one of the main reasons why experienced landlords sometimes tend to shy away from HAP tenants (all other things being equal) compared to tenants spending their own hard-earned. However, I have viewed for purchase places in mid-rental to the council that have been in fantastic nick. So it's a generalisation.
2. The Council has very little recourse against their tenants; they have lower incomes, less assets, etc... the council will never waste their time trying to sue their current or former tenants to do a couple of g's worth of repairs. Only anti-social behaviour negatively affects their ability to rent in future.
3. 10 years is a long long time - if you don't think you'd expect to replace carpets and sofas after 10 years of renting to anyone then you are sorely misunderstanding human nature. You spill a bottle of baby milk on your own sofa, you'll spend days with the vinegar and the baking soda and the ventilation... a tenant will seldom do it. I rented a place to a guy for 11 years... it was a kip at the end (filthy) but I gave him his deposit back because, well.. it had been 11 years!
4. Similarly any serious event (like the bath leaking) a homeowner will contact insurance, etc, to get it sorted and remediated. A council will only make the place safe and habitable.

The upside of a council rental is 10 years at close to market rent with NO EXPENSES (no repairs, maintenance, etc) after six months. The reason the council sets 10 years is that they know that after 10 years the place will need to be completely overhauled, but most landlords won't care because they've had a decade of very very good money. You've probably enjoyed 7+% yield on your capital during a period of close to zero inflation... beating every other investment at little or no risk.

However

• Yes there should be better recourse against the council for your situation. It probably is worth a solicitors letter. I bet they bump the 900 offer.
• Yes council tenants should be more responsible. Many of them are.

Don't be disheartened. Letting out a place for the inexperienced can be soul destroying if you expect people to look after it the way you would. Get that mentality out of your head, and you'll be fine.

Enter Username Here

They have now in all likelihood been moved onto another lovely property owned by a trusting landlord whose house they will wreck again!

They were moved into a house very similar to how mine was. They refused to move to five other houses, I have since found out that was the reason for the delay. They are now in a four bedroom house with an immaculate back garden. Recently the whole house was done up (new kitchen, both toilets/bathroom and extension).

I can now judge the people that are renting to the council with the same negativity that some others do.

JCJCJC

Your landlord/tenant relationship with the council was a legal relationship. Get it reviewed by a legal professional. Get all the damage quantified by an engineer, architect or surveyor. Get a good case together and go for the council. The council officials aren’t putting their own money in this, they don’t give two continentals about you or your house. They know well what kind of tenants their anti-social clients are. Go formal or drop it, there’s no other way.