Rented house to County Council for 10 years lots of damage after getting it back

Enter Username Here

I had rented out my house to the local council for 10 years, and when I got it back there is a lot of damage to it. The electricity in the sitting room and hall is damaged, I cannot use the lights and have had to tape up the switches. I have extension leads everywhere. The bath must have been left to overflow at some stage as there is significant water damage showing in the ground floor ceiling. The back door will not lock, the fibreglass insulation in the attic was being used to hide items from stores (a lot of them let behind), that seem maybe not purchased, and a lot of the insulation has been ripped up and removed. Holes in the walls, damaged tiles, broken toilet and much more. Also all of my furniture was destroyed and much of it allegedly disposed of.

I have contacted the council and I have been unable to get anywhere with them. They have sent me €900 and have told me that is all i am entitled to. I was told that if I was to go to court it could cost me about €5000 - €10000 and not I am not guaranteed to win because it is the council.

I have not got that much to go to court anyway. I have already had to buy a new bed and sofa. I will have to purchase two other beds and more items but at the minute I am still weighing it all up and trying to work out what I can afford to get repaired first.

Is there anything I can do, or somebody that I can contact, as I have gotten nowhere with the PRTB or the council and I feel as though i have exhausted all of the avenues that I could afford.

Tired and desperate. Thank you for reading.

fritzelly

Does your contract not state it should be returned in the same state bar normal wear and tear.

Court hears woman’s High Court action against council over property damage has been resolved (irishexaminer.com)

Gusser09

Never ever rent to the council.

Muppet Man

Cant comment on the council piece, but Would selling the property at this stage be a better route forward for you. Its not easy being a landlord.

ted1

Surely you have depreciated the cost of the furniture over 8 years. So they cost you nothing.

what exactly is wrong with the electrics?

get a handyman in to price repairs. You can deduct the cost over the rent for the next few years.

will your insurance not cover some of the damage ?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551010#Comment_121551010

What a ridiculous response

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551029#Comment_121551029

Elaborate…..

eother participate constructively in a conversation or just stay quiet

Iodine1

If you are letting it out again, your best option is to let it out unfurnished. Other than the deposit you have little comeback except through the courts and that could be costly.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058328889/rented-house-to-county-council-for-10-years-lots-of-damage-after-getting-it-back

That's a very stressful situation. If the council are refusing to cover the costs your next course of action should be to write to all newspapers, post on all online platforms and contact TV and radio and tell in detail the damage done and the situation you have been left in after renting to the council. Stress that you would not encourage any landlord to rent to the council given the nightmare it has been for you.

Then write to our minister for housing, your local TDs and the taoiseach outlining the situation In every detail.

Sadly this is the only course of action that may get you somewhere - get them worried that landlords will stop renting - you will be soon offered something to shut you up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551042#Comment_121551042

The op outlined a catalogue of damage, and property is required to be handed back in the condition it was in at the beginning of the tenancy. You seem to be ignoring both.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551068#Comment_121551068

No, not ignoring

”The electricity in the sitting room and hall is damaged”. I asked what the damage was, after all electricity can’t be damaged

at the end of the day the OP wants the house back in a good manner. If the damage’s furniture has been depreciated, which it should have been, then there’s no value to it. And they just need to accept that.

I directed them to get a handyman , he can put a cost to the repairs , some of which may be covered by her insurance.

damages that look a long list can easily be rectified. And not as bad as initially thought.

realistically going the legal route won’t generate anything for them.

what they do need to do is fix the house and get a new tenant in, or get the house sold.

hurikane

Council have guaranteed you 30-40% of the total mortgage over ten years. Get it fixed up yourself and revel in the fact that you didn’t have to worry about it for 10 years.

T-Maxx

Insurance 😆

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551105#Comment_121551105

Oh I see.....you think the council should bear no responsibility for putting a problem tenent in the property. You think the council should have no duty of care towards the OPs property that was in their care. Sure it's fine for the landlord to be out of pocket in your opinion.

Esho

Why? Because of this?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551173#Comment_121551173

Just to be clear, is it your belief that this is different to any other tenancy, and that the op’s right to have the property returned in the condition it was in at the start of the tenancy is any less because the council paid the rent?

What are you basing that on?

hurikane

I’m basing it on a tenant moving in and never paying a cent. The council don’t move people in and don’t pay the rent.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551206#Comment_121551206

Is that relevant to the thread?

Bluespecs

Invite a TV crew in to film the damage. Contact your County Councillors about it and ask for their help

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551177#Comment_121551177

No, it’s not fine. But realistically there very little comeback for landlords. It’s one of the reason I sold all my rentals earlier this year.

if you think the OP will get anything from the council or tenant you are not living in the real world.

what they will get is a lot of stress and hassle. Sometimes you are best chalking things up as a life lesson and getting on with it.

OP had a short term contract , 1-10 years

a 10+ year gives the council more responsibility

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551173#Comment_121551173

That's not how renting works, nor do we/you know what the rent or mortgage cost were for the 10yrs.

The property owner has to expect to make a profit from renting, not just cover costs.

OP, was it let directly to council or to a council tenant via RAS etc

cute geoge

I think OP should ring Joe Duffy and he would sort it

Furze99

OP has had ten years of rent from the council - that's money in the bank. It's disappointing that the tenants trashed it to some extent but reinvest in repairs and let again or sell. Likely have appreciated in value overall, so glass more than half full. At least it wasn't burnt down, let's put it like that.

But make absolutely sure that the council officials are aware of the state of the place and who was there. If they do their job properly that should impact on any future social housing for these tenants. Make it very clear that you will publicise among others you know who let to the council. That'll keep their feet to the fire - no one wants to deal with that sort of feral behaviour, neither property owners or the council or their neighbours.

Mrs OBumble

OP did you have a walk-thru inspection with a council official when the house was handed to them, and handed back to you? Can you prove that the damage done happened between those two inspections? Because without that, you will have little chance legally.

Best bet it to contact a local councillor, or local media - and let the council know you have done that and will be publicising the situation if your issues aren't resolved.

chrisd2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058328889/rented-house-to-county-council-for-10-years-lots-of-damage-after-getting-it-back

This is one of the pitfalls of long-term rental agreements with the council, there is very little if any check by the council on the property during the rental period. You need to read the original contract you had with the council and based on it seek professional advice.

During the 10 years who was responsible for repairs and did you ever inspect the property?

Regarding the 900 Euro, what was this for and how was it calculated.?

Lack of protection of asset value for landlord during rentals, is why I myself have kept away from being a landlord, a months rent, doesn't amount to much.

As others have suggested, get the repairs costed and then think about your options regarding reletting or selling up.

Finally, if you believe there are items related to crimes left behind, inform the Gardai.

Ezeoul

I could be completely wrong here, but I was always under the impression that if you let a house to a local authority, the landlord was guaranteed rent, but maintenance was still the responsibility of the property owner?

Is that not the case?

Hungry Burger

Renting to the council was your first mistake.

hurikane

Of course it is. Any input yourself?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552103#Comment_121552103

+1

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551780#Comment_121551780

Landlords aren't exactly popular with the public, esp right now.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552100#Comment_121552100

Not always. There are a few different schemes. Some guarantee to return it in original condition less fair wear and tear.

Just sell it to the council, make it their problem to restore

AndrewJRenko

What does your solicitor advise? The one who reviewed your contract with the Council initially, if possible.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553706#Comment_121553706

😂😂

the O Reilly connection

What was the council paying you?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561402#Comment_121561402

Is that in some way relevant to the damage done and condition of the property when the tenancy ended? Surely you aren’t going to insinuate that the amount of rent paid should in some way absolve the tenant of their obligation not to wreck the place.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561402#Comment_121561402

That's totally irrelevant. Agree with post above this.

Spook_ie

Well according to

https://www.housingagency.ie/housing-information/information-property-owners-and-landlords

then it depends on which agreement was entered into who was responsible for what

Enter Username Here

To answer some of the questions and to hopefully update anything that I may have left out (there is a lot to it and I may still leave out things):

I bought the house with a relative. My relative got married and I bought them out. Before they got married we decided that we would rent to the council as my relative was moving in with their partner and I could not afford to live there alone as well as other complications.

The first tenant lived there for five years and there were no issues once they had moved out. There were a few minor issues, but nothing that you wouldn't expect or could not address yourself.

After the first tenant, a person from the council did walk around with me and take note of any repairs that were needed and how much it would cost to put the house back into a rentable state.

They then sent a cheque for €3000 for us to get it back to said state. We painted and repaired what we could, and got professionals to do what I couldn't. By the time it was ready for rent again there was €135.75 left.

The council did an inspection and then it was let to the 2nd tenant. This contract was only for me, and foolishly I did not involve a solicitor and was handed a new contract mid tenancy that I assumed was much the same (YES - I KNOW THIS WAS A MASSIVE MISTAKE), I cannot find anything in the contract that changed or allowed for maximum payment of €900. 

At the end of the 2nd tenants 5 years, I had to move back in, as where i was renting (small 1 bed) were wanting their apartment back again. I gave my notice to the council and was asked if I could hold off for a year, I said I couldn't but I would try for 6 months. In the end they got the year.

In July the payments stopped and I contacted them to ask why. I contacted them to ask what was happening and they then told me that the tenant had moved out in May. I asked why I wasn't informed and was told she didn't know. I was then contacting them for a few weeks trying to get my keys, they told me that they didn't have them and eventually I had to meet the old tenant beside where they now live on the street, so that they could hand over the keys to me.

I have all of the reports that have been done to quote for work needed on my house (I am now living in it), and receipts for everything that I have had to do on it.

I was told to stop sending them photos of the issues I was still coming across a few months back and that there is no point, the don't want the emails.

The last phone call I made to themI said that no matter what they tell me here, it was not anywhere close to the awful condition it is in today, and if I asked them to call in to rent it from me, they wouldn't take it off me it is so bad.

The rent was not enough to cover the mortgage each month. Both myself and my relative have had to pay extra for the mortgage from the start, and then obviously when I bought them out I had to pay it alone.

I am just trying to find out if there any other routes I could try to hold the council responsible that won't cost me a fortune and I may still lose. I do not have a fortune to spend.

Regards.

Seth Brundle

I am just trying to find out if there any other routes I could try to hold the council responsible that won't cost me a fortune and I may still lose. I do not have a fortune to spend.

Just talk to a solicitor who is familiar with this kind of work.

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121575459#Comment_121575459

"I was told to stop sending them photos of the issues I was still coming across a few months back and that there is no point, they don't want the emails."

This saga of complete incompetence by an apathetic and uncaring Council deserves a far wider audience.

Without adopting the nuclear "Liveline" option, I'm sure that somewhere in the world of Irish journalism is an ambitious young spark who would would love to get their teeth into a story like this? Why not summarise the story that you have told above and email it off to a couple of radio and newspaper newsrooms. And then send it to your local opposition TDs and Councillors.

I'd also send it to Darragh "Jowls" O'Brien [ minister@housing.gov.ie ] and ask him whether he is satisfied with the performance of the Council in question.

Remember, if the Council gets away with treating you like a piece of dog crap, then they'll keep doing it to other people.

the O Reilly connection

If I was a landlord I wouldn't wait five years to carry out repairs. I would have inspections at least every year. If the tenant turns out to be that bad then throw them out straight away.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121580546#Comment_121580546

If the tenant turns out to be that bad then throw them out straight away.

...and find yourself hauled into court on a losing battle fairly quickly

3DataModem

After any 10 year tenancy I'd expect the place to be a bit of a shambles.

• Electrical issues - I'm guessing 100-200 of sparks work, unless the damage is more than a blown fuse or burnt-out switch.
• Bath Overflow - OK that's pretty bad, but not 'entirely' unexpected in a 10 year tenancy.
• Back Door Lock - I'm guessing 100-200 of locksmith / joiner work.
• Insulation - Putting that back in the attic is not a huge job.
• Holes in the walls / Damaged tiles - after 10 years I'd expect a fair bit of that sort of damage. Tiles are annoying to fix, holes in the walls not so much.
• Broken toilet - depends how broken.
• Furniture - You left furniture in a 10 year tenancy? Of course it's going to be fit for a skip.

I'm not trying to play this down, or undermine your disappointment, but after 10 years I'd be expecting more or less a full refit of a let place.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121585342#Comment_121585342

I dont agree at all. What you are basically saying is that rental properties are lived in by complete animals and landlords should expect it to be wrecked. After 10 years I would expect to have to paint the property throughout, replace mattress's, maybe replace carpet and sofa etc ( only if necessary) - thats reasonable.

It is not reasonable for insulation to need to be replaced, tiles to be replaced or redone, holes in walls ( how the eff did that happen) and for alot of furniture to be replaced. People who own their own homes dont replace everything after 10 years!

Tenants should be held liable for any damage beyond whats reasonable to a house. People wonder why rents are so high - one of the reasons is because often a house has to be gutted after a tenant leaves. These people have no respect for anything whatsover and in my opinion should be left homeless. They have now in all likelihood been moved onto another lovely property owned by a trusting landlord whose house they will wreck again! This home costs them virtually nothing and there will be no consequences for them when they destroy the property. Ireland is a great country for wasters!

Hotblack Desiato

They have now in all likelihood been moved onto another lovely property owned by a trusting landlord whose house they will wreck again!

All courtesy of the taxpayer don't forget.

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121585560#Comment_121585560

You can throw around should as much as you want; I'm telling it how it is.

1. People who don't pay for something don't respect it as much as those who do. That's one of the main reasons why experienced landlords sometimes tend to shy away from HAP tenants (all other things being equal) compared to tenants spending their own hard-earned. However, I have viewed for purchase places in mid-rental to the council that have been in fantastic nick. So it's a generalisation.
2. The Council has very little recourse against their tenants; they have lower incomes, less assets, etc... the council will never waste their time trying to sue their current or former tenants to do a couple of g's worth of repairs. Only anti-social behaviour negatively affects their ability to rent in future.
3. 10 years is a long long time - if you don't think you'd expect to replace carpets and sofas after 10 years of renting to anyone then you are sorely misunderstanding human nature. You spill a bottle of baby milk on your own sofa, you'll spend days with the vinegar and the baking soda and the ventilation... a tenant will seldom do it. I rented a place to a guy for 11 years... it was a kip at the end (filthy) but I gave him his deposit back because, well.. it had been 11 years!
4. Similarly any serious event (like the bath leaking) a homeowner will contact insurance, etc, to get it sorted and remediated. A council will only make the place safe and habitable.

The upside of a council rental is 10 years at close to market rent with NO EXPENSES (no repairs, maintenance, etc) after six months. The reason the council sets 10 years is that they know that after 10 years the place will need to be completely overhauled, but most landlords won't care because they've had a decade of very very good money. You've probably enjoyed 7+% yield on your capital during a period of close to zero inflation... beating every other investment at little or no risk.

However

• Yes there should be better recourse against the council for your situation. It probably is worth a solicitors letter. I bet they bump the 900 offer.
• Yes council tenants should be more responsible. Many of them are.

Don't be disheartened. Letting out a place for the inexperienced can be soul destroying if you expect people to look after it the way you would. Get that mentality out of your head, and you'll be fine.

Enter Username Here

They have now in all likelihood been moved onto another lovely property owned by a trusting landlord whose house they will wreck again!

They were moved into a house very similar to how mine was. They refused to move to five other houses, I have since found out that was the reason for the delay. They are now in a four bedroom house with an immaculate back garden. Recently the whole house was done up (new kitchen, both toilets/bathroom and extension).

I can now judge the people that are renting to the council with the same negativity that some others do.

JCJCJC

Your landlord/tenant relationship with the council was a legal relationship. Get it reviewed by a legal professional. Get all the damage quantified by an engineer, architect or surveyor. Get a good case together and go for the council. The council officials aren’t putting their own money in this, they don’t give two continentals about you or your house. They know well what kind of tenants their anti-social clients are. Go formal or drop it, there’s no other way.