Importing Slurry on paper‐-‐---What's in it for me?

alps

https://thecurrency.news/articles/142990/unverified-exports-illegal-spreading-and-paper-acres-the-murky-world-of-livestock-manure/

roosterman71

I was just going to post that link. It's mainstream now. That article is written by a current affairs journalist and not an environmental or agricultural one

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856141#Comment_121856141

Well, they are not wrong. Don't know how lads couldn't see it coming, we'll all get the blame now though.

n1st

Indeed. There was an argument up to 3 months ago that it's not farming that has caused the worst water quality in Europe but it was septic tanks for example. There was probably some data even to back this up.

Now that proof has been completed proven as erroneous, people have broken the rules.

Wait for the backlash here, in particular dairy. Europe will not permit any more

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856505#Comment_121856505

Proving one culprit should not dismiss all others either, nor should it shoulder the blame on all farms, but that is how it will be read.

Say my name

There's a ridiculous scenario on farms though.

Farms are exporting slurry free and then buying artificial fertiliser to replace that.

How that was ever considered sensible and environmentally friendly by all concerned is beyond me.

Can we call it for what it is. A tax on livestock farming.

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856633#Comment_121856633

Won't disagree with that, but there is the more ridiculous scenario where the farm reports to export slurry but doesn't and then buys and applies that artificial fertilizer anyway while trying to find ways to under report that too. Then everyone else gets beaten with the same stick and forced to reduce also.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856505#Comment_121856505

Why did you point to dairy there when cattle farming, according to the currency article, is adhering to the regulations much better than pig/poultry

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121856689#Comment_121856689

That's going to be fixed. But then we're still back to farmers exporting nutrients and importing inferior nutrients from merchants, abroad and paying handsomely for the privilege.

Livestock farmers have had a rough time with this government. From exporting nutrients, reducing stocking rate, reducing nutrient bought, reducing protein % of meal fed, being outpriced on Livestock bedding bought, concrete levies, carbon fuel levies.

Not related to government although maybe previous had more clout and pull, reduced shipping of calves, downward prices never seen before. Increased use of sex semen leading to fr bulls as nearly free in cases, downward pressure on aa and he calves as they become the old freisian through sheer numbers presented for sale. More agencies looking for self appointed paid farm inspections. OK it's become a general rant now.

It's like some were asleep at the wheel of how all things anti livestock have been allowed seep into government conscious.

We're a long way from Simon Coveney and Michael Creed.

alps

Some cost to the exporting.

My sums have it at 8,400 gallons per cow need to be taken off farm.

Over 2 artic loads.

See this as costing between 300 and 400 per cow.

Lot cheaper to rent the bit of ground.

1848

Where do you get those figures from? Cow produces about 1160 gallons slurry over 16 week winter.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121858290#Comment_121858290

You must export her whole year's slurry..

Cow excretes 92kgN

92÷2.4 (N/1000lt)= 38,000 litre

Close on 8,500 gallons.

1848

You can only export what is produced indoors & stored in a tank & be capable of being moved in a tanker to another farm.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121858614#Comment_121858614

That's true, but you also must export what she produced that isn't in the tank. Only way to do that is export another cows winter produce.

1848

I don’t understand why you want to export any more than what is produced over the winter. Cow @ 92 kg, 2.4 cows/ha = 220/ha organic(upper limit of derogation). This matches grass growth on land well farmed. Why carry any more cows than that. If you exceed this stocking rate costs rocket, profits decrease. If you end up exporting slurry because of higher SR then need to ask a few questions about what you are up to.

n1st

https://thecurrency.news/articles/142990/unverified-exports-illegal-spreading-and-paper-acres-the-murky-world-of-livestock-manure/

https://thecurrency.news/articles/142990/unverified-exports-illegal-spreading-and-paper-acres-the-murky-world-of-livestock-manure/

roosterman71

Whats the figures for N content when

a) importing slurry
b) exporting slurry
c) of digestate

Donald Trump

Could bigger dairy men start taking ground for tillage. I see it happening given the price of straw etc. if possible.

Going back to "mixed farming" but supersized.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122558084#Comment_122558084

The obvious answer add more cost into the system. Earlier this year I was explain this to an auctioneer that an acre if land has a virtual quota of about 5.5k gallons of milk and that is assuming that all calves inc replacements leave the farm fairly quickly and cull cows do as well.

A lot of large dairy farms are not in tillage area. It's more awkward now to plough/till permanent grassland. A 300 cow unit stocked at 250 that needs to reduce to 220 needs about 13% more land at a cow to an acre its about 40 acres. In strong dairy area that is not really feasible at 400/acre its 16k+ the farm payments. Now the FP's are becoming an issue as we head towards the 60k farm payment limit.

Some lads will have to reduce cow numbers plain and simple

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122572591#Comment_122572591

Why would you plough permanent grassland? Maybe not all dairy farmers are in tillage areas but plenty are and I was talking about those that could rent tillage land. Tillage work - even if doing the most of it themselves, is not exactly as time-intensive as dairy. A 50-100 acre block 10-20 miles away wouldn't be a massive hassle for most of the year.

Payment ceilings will be easily bypassed for many. Split between companies and family members. In addition, most dairy farmers didn't have big payments to begin with. Maybe some of the entrants who converted from tillage post-quota would, but in the majority of cases their own payments wouldn't have been large anyway relatively speaking

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573077#Comment_122573077

MMost Large operations are limited companies. For it to be of benefit in most cases it needs to be all under the one herd number. If not the then you require extra land as you are limited to 170/HA if importing. The economics of moving slurry 10-20 miles do not add up. While tillage mabe be an option in the south east it not available in tge dairy heartlands of Cork and Kerry unless you are ploughing permanent grass land

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573186#Comment_122573186

There is more to the country than Kerry and Cork. I wouldn't worry too much about transporting slurry for whatever bit might need to actually move. The pig men have been doing it in tankers for years and for further distances that 10-20 miles.

A one-man operation in a company structure will have his limit effectively doubled as there is nothing stopping him have part of the entitlements in his own name. Paddy the individual can have his new enterprise break even and Paddy Ltd the company can proceed as normal otherwise should there be a risk of significant loss due to any cap.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573271#Comment_122573271

There is a good few catches. The amount to be exported is colossal if the purpose is to retain present stocking level. If you are exporting that amount expect to be checked by the department regularly with the new 4 day notice if two different operators.

With the fertlizer register it will be impossible to grow viable crops without the slurry. Yes you could put in a grant aided tank but transport costs will be significant.

As @alps pointed out its 8k gallons per cow retained. Which has to go on approx one acre. You will not be allowed to buy much artificial P&K for tillage crops with those amounts.

Say a 6k gallon tanker doing a 15 mile return journey @100 euro+vat per hour say 1.5 hours per return journey. Or nearly 30 euro per 1k gallons and it still has to be spread and tgat is for 5k gallons

But fair play to some of these dairy farmers when they are in a hole they keep going with the shovel. Assuming a rent of 400/ acre it now at 550/cow retained and only 5k gallons shifted from one holding to another. The P&K may then have to be replaced on the dairy unit. As farms will be soil tested every 5 years if the numbers are not adding up expect regular visits from the department

The reason you now have to let them.know within 4 days was because lads were breaking the rules and now everyone suffers. If the 4 days fails to prevent abuse of the system expect to have to give noticeor at least notify them as you start spreading.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574799#Comment_122574799

A d they could pull the ultimate tracker on us, which they do in Belgium..ie GPS printout for every load spread.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122574799#Comment_122574799

Here the artics are drawing 6500 gallons @€120 per load incl. VAT for a 20 mile round trip from the piggery. Doing 3 loads in ~2.5 hours. Spreading afterwards then is extra

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575079#Comment_122575079

A lot would dependbon the draw if all national roads no L roads. If you had to go through a build up area. The setup in both situations with plenty of turning area. Tank will probably be only 30iah k gallons or else you run in to significant expense unless you have other use for it but then you have shed costs.

Admittedly a lot of the rine you could spread as it drawn. Probably after 7 loads or a bit with two hours tank is full even if it's being spread

It takes me a lotbof 30 minutes in the RAV to get from.the house to the farm, 12 miles 5 miles is L road and you cannot pass out anything for over half the national road. The farm gate has to be opened as well. 50 minutes per return load is fair clipping it must be fairly good road and good setups and a large tank

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122575155#Comment_122575155

The time was one example coming to me. Roads be standard and 2 towns to traverse. Our yard is small and it's drive in, reverse out. Tank is small so we spread it while lorry is gone. Having said that, rate/hour is the same no matter where the importing yard is. It's the rate the piggery charge

lmk123

I’m thinking of importing slurry as I have a new tank that won’t be near filled this year, do people normally get a few quid for importing it or just take it for free

Aravo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123040286#Comment_123040286

From reading this thread previously it's likely you won't be receiving slurry and/or payment. In practice it's more of a system to help people out and pollute the place.

Plus cattle in later this year so much less pressure on people. Last year was a different story.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123040286#Comment_123040286

Around here there’s a few piggery’s that charge for the slurry, another one give it for free but you have to have maps. I’ve never heard of anyone getting paid to take the slurry!