Different values around Christmas

Blanco100

Really wound up about this the last few days. Have real issues with my sister in law (my wife's sister). The definition of a leech.

We invited my wife's mother to dinner but like anything the 41 year old sister and her son come as a package (her son is a lovely lad mainly due to the sponger sister in law pawning him off on her own mother most of the time).

Anyway I laid some ground rules with my wife, I specifically asked that she doesn't try to mirror her sister when it comes to lavishing presents on our son this year. It's not a financial thing, rather it's a values thing. Her sister despite never working a day in her life must have 50-60 presents bought for her 5 year old. It's not even about him, it's more her own compulsion. My wife's agrees most of the time.

As I am the one driving them cross country collecting them and my car only fits so much, but she overstepped the mark the first time by having the guts of 20 large packages posted down here for her lad in late November. My wife told her the ground rules, we are less lavish, our lad wants for nothing, is 3 years old.

Anyway, everything soon went out the window and it's business as usual, my sister in law is practicing some pretty ridiculous "traditions" Which included one specific one I specifically asked my wife to mention it's not happening here. Involves wrapping our sitting room door from top to bottom so the sittings room contents are revealed like a present. Real magical wonderland stuff. It's crass, excessive (considering my wife's mother is skint- we wanted to give her a financially less stressful Christmas because it's usually her funding this circus every year). My sister in law actually tried to stop her mother coming down as it meant her own meal ticket was going to be occupied so compromise was reached in which she had to come aswell.

Long story short, I sat back and watched all this last night, the sister in law directing traffic, berating other nieces and nephews into wrapping her kids presents whilst she played interior designer, all promises to reign it in went out the window.

She mentioned the door being wrapped, and I bit and sai "we're not doing that here" In a jovial tone, she responded that it was her tradition and her son and mine would find it magical. I said, it's not tradition here. Anyway, my wife (who agreed with my assertions pre Christmas) completely took me to task for saying the above to her sister. My wife will always talk like this about her sisters fondness of excess when she's not around, but is meek as a kitten in her presence, in fact I'm the only one who will challenge her, it's constant take, take and take.

The point of the story is, I don't want my son seeing this **** for Christmas. Buying every gift in the Smythe catalogue because it makes her feel less empty inside. I want my kid to have an appreciation of value, and not be expecting 40 or 50 things to open. My wife agreed but everything went out the window.

Im not a miser, I spent the guts of €500(not that amount matters but just for context) this christmas, our kid has everything, but it's a crazy show of excess, all for Facebook photos etc... But more and more just kept getting bought, I think our values are so different.

I adore Christmas, just not this kind of Christmas, where everything has to be magical and story book like. And you find yourself having to top it the following year.

Am I being unreasonable?

Mod - Edited child's age, from 50 to 5.

blackbox

A great way to break the tradition of inviting sister in law and mother in law is to go abroad next year.

Loveinapril

There is an element of compromise required when merging different family's Christmas experiences. You seem concerned that the level of excess by your in laws will have to be topped each year. Your son is still so young that you can teach him about how different families have different traditions at Christmas. The run up to Christmas can be a teaching experience around what your values are around this time. It sounds like a lot of stress trying to manage the behaviours of others, your sister in law sounds like a strong character and you are in the minority given that your in laws are visiting you for Christmas. You cannot change the dynamic between your wife and her sister. You cannot change the behaviour of your sister in law. If it is causing you a lot of frustration and stress, maybe you should look to doing your own thing next year as a family of three. Christmas is supposed to be enjoyable.

iniscealtra

Could you collect them Christmas morning or could they get the bus/train to the nearest town if they live farther away? They can do the gift giving at their own house then. If they’re getting the bus they won’t be able to bring heaps of stuff. You could pick them up from the station. They would have dinner with you and you could drop them back Stephens Day. Obviously this depends on where ye are geographically.

Otherwise as said go away for Christmas and have a dinner together on New Years Day.

Idbatterim

That is totally insane! Who funds this madness?!

notAMember

Thats really tricky.

I find that level of excess completely tacky as well as jarringly wasteful. We have a relative who completely overspends as well, out-doing Santa etc. it’s very uncomfortable and hard to say to them as you rightly identify it’s attacking their core values. They really see it as generosity and love.

Over the years we eased this a bit with really repeating over and over how much we prefer experiences and time together much more than things. I emphasised how stressful we find managing STUFF, tell them we are minimalist, tell them we are environmentalists. Gave them some way to label us in their brain. It’s not you, it’s us, we’re “weird”. Now we get different pressies, still too much, but it’s things like tickets to events or membership of the zoo.

Blind As A Bat

You're not in the least bit unreasonable. When you invite somebody to your home for Christmas, they come as your guests, to share in YOUR Christmas celebration, not to host their own Christmas in your house.

Speaking as a woman myself, I think your wife was out of order in behaving as she did. Her first loyalty should be to you and not her sister. Your happiness and well being should take precedence, not her sister's.

Sounds like you're doing a great job raising your son with the right values. Best wishes to you and hope the remainder of the Christmas is a happy time for you.

NSAman

Easy thing, take your young fella out for the afternoon having a walk. Leave the craziness behind. Spend some one on one time with him.

`we all know Christmas isn’t about presents, it’s about family, friends, taking the time to be with each other. Over spending on a kid, is tantamount to creating a monster of entitlement later on, but a 50 year old? (Typo I know)

vacuous individuals show over spending. Best Christmas ever that we (all my siblings) remember is one with zero money, the dogs ate the Turkey, huddled around the range talking telling stories and laughing with our parents. I was 6.

You a right to be mad, your wife needs a kick in the arse to stop being a people pleaser. No more invites unless her behaviour changes, or it’s just Christmas lunch and feck off..😀 ( i mean her sister not your wife..opps)

Blanco100

Thanks for the replies. The sister is a real piece of work, she has Christmas with the mother every year, takes the young lad down for dinner every year, only thing she spends money on is presents, not a cent given to anyone for food, drink etc...

Saying that, she has him in him mothers every day after school for dinner as well and my mother in law can't afford it. If she was my own sister it wouldn't be happening, but the amount of accommodating her is staggering, she doesn't work, she has someone minding the child for her every 5 mins whilst she's having a fag.

She will be broken all January now, type of person who blows her money on luxury and it's up to someone else to take care of the essentials. Another poster put it right, it creates entitlement for sure and I'm kinda powerless, my wife just doesn't want a scene caused and gives it to me in the neck.

And guess whose cooking, I'll get a big thank you like I've been blessed by God himself and that will be it.

Big Bag of Chips

To be honest, wrapping the door isn't my cup of tea but I think trying to insist on that and using it as something to make your point came across a bit miserly. In the grand scheme of things it's not that big a deal.

Also, you can't really tell another person what they should or shouldn't buy for their own child. I do think the presents are excessive, but if that's what she wants to do then that's what she's entitled to do. The only way you are going to stop being affected by this is to simply not invite them to be in your house for Christmas morning.

Start new traditions. Christmas day is just your own family. You, your wife, your child(ren). You're going to have to stop it at some stage, otherwise you will be hosting your sister and her child well into adulthood. Your mother-in-law won't be alone if your sister-in-law is with her, so there isn't a need to invite her for Christmas day. You could make St. Stephen's Day your extended family day by inviting them that day, or travelling to them for dinner.

Your wife has a history and relationship with her sister that you don't have. Due to that history she might find it difficult to stand up to her or go against her. So all you can do is manage your relationship with her. Talk to your wife early in the new year. Tell her you can't have a repeat of this Christmas next year and you want to be able to relax and enjoy your time together as a family without the stress of managing her sister. It might take a bit of convincing but you have to think of your own family, your own child. He's a bit young yet to notice but another 3-4 years he'll be very aware of what his cousin is getting.

Idbatterim

if she is a single mother and doesnt work, how the hell does she afford all the presents and life in general?! youre wife wont want a scene at christmas, feels its easier to go along with it. Its insufferable though by the sounds of it, I would be thinking of new arrangements for christmas, going forward...

Meeoow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121535119#Comment_121535119

Maybe the child's father coughs up for his child.

Blanco100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121535141#Comment_121535141

That's not the case 100%. It's a mystery, but it's really a case of spending all her money on presents, and leaving it to her pensioner mother to pay for essential stuff in the preceding months.

I sound bitter I know, I don't care what she gives her young lad, my issue is my kid seeing it, asking for the next present after ripping another one open. It breeds entitlement.

It was supposed to be our Christmas but she completely hijacked it, made it all about the experience for her own lad. And she will sit back and tuck in to our food and drink and feel it's expected because she's so used to other people footing the bill for it time and time again.

AllForIt

No you are not being in the slightest bit unreasonably.

I would suggest to say once and for all no and say that's the end of it and that you are not going to entertain any further debate about it now or in the future including to you wife who may wish to bring it up after they've gone.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121535156#Comment_121535156

In fairness if you invite someone for Christmas dinner it's kind of to be expected that they'll tuck into your food and drink. Although I'd also expect them to bring a few bottles of wine with them for the hosts.

Anyway, I think you have your answer - just stop inviting her. OK, it may mean your mother in law won't come either but unfortunately that's her choice.

Idbatterim

Its totally ridiculous! These should be your special christmases, with your wife and young kid, ones you should be looking forward to and not dreading. Ones that in future years, you should have great memories of. I am sure you work damn hard and should be enjoying today. I would be done with it, you dealing with other peoples problems and poor life decisions and living on another planet, shouldnt be your problem. I would guillotine it as much as possible, I have a few people like that in my life in 2023, but work related, let me just tell you, that was 2023, not happening in 2024. You only have so many "fcuks" to give, use them on those you love and value...

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121535179#Comment_121535179

agreed, yet another one of these Christmas for the OP. I feel sorry for the kid of that total mess and his grandmother!

Just re-read the OP, you actually collect her and drop her back presumably?! Jesus christ, you've the patience of a saint... Maybe she should use massive amount she spends on presents, to spend on a car. She sounds like a total waste of space...

Sonic the Shaghog

Sure if she's spending all her money on presents and stuff I assume she guilts her own mother into helping pay for bills, feeding the young lad etc.

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121535141#Comment_121535141

what? coughs up to the cover the fact that this ex woman of his, doesnt work? Buys fifty to sixty presents for the kid? god only knows what birthdays are like. He has a responsiblity to cover some of the cost of the KID, nothing else!

Blanco100

It's pretty toxic. I feel very sorry for my mother in law, we wanted to give her a stress free Christmas to be honest.

But she won't come, or be let come without the other one in tow. I'm dropping them back on 27th. There's 5 of them in all, I'm not even getting to sleep at home either, I'm out in my mam and dads place from about midnight, back in at 7 or 8am, we just don't have the space for everyone either.

I know my wife will go mad too when they go home, say I've been off and grumpy in front of her family. It's just so over the top I cannot help it, I'm not going to indulge it.

When my wife arranged for them to visit (bear in mind she just wanted her mum too) I knew what it would entail. Lifts up and home, all the frills as I find with sisters there's a lot of trying to impress each other/show off. In advance, I'd laid out my reservations, no over the top amount of gifts, I don't care what she buys her kid but they will have to be able to get it home, and then u have issue of us having to store all her young lads stuff in our house from November (she had it delivered here) with our own fella exploring around the place.

But if you saw the amount of stuff. I specifically made it clear we won't be wrapping any doorways for big reveals, I know it sounds ridiculous and petty but that was my tipping point and my wife agreed, but once she mentioned it last night and my wife didn't shut it down, I piped up and flatout said no in a jokey way, she responded that it was her tradition, and I said it's not a tradition in our house. I wasn't disrespectful either.

Wife went mad, I spoke against her sister, I told her if she respected me as her husband she'd have a word and nip it in the bud, but she didn't, instead she told me in no uncertain terms what she thought of me making a scene, bearing in mind all I did was speak up once.

Came back in at 7 this morning from my parents, kids got up at 8.45am I'm stuck in bloody kitchen until then as the door is wrapped up, and then the festival of presents begins and I'm watching my own son of 3years of age open about 50 presents whilst Facebook pics are snapped. I would have asked her not to plaster my son on Facebook but my wife would prob ask me to back down on that aswell.

Ah **** it I'll survive but it's just the principle of it.

reclose

You are rightly annoyed but I would say to let it go until after Christmas and concentrate on having a good time.

HeidiHeidi

I would suck it up for the rest of this visit - without causing an almighty row / offence / possible divorce proceedings (or all of the above), there's not much more you can do about anything now.

But some time in early January I'd be scheduling an evening for a long, sober, sincere chat with your wife - no distractions, and stick with it until you're sure she gets where you're coming from on it all. It all sounds absolutely bats.

Apart from anything, I cannot believe you agreed to leave your own house on Christmas Eve, and sneak back in early on Christmas morning!!

And book a family holiday for the three of you in the Canaries or somewhere for next year!

Blind As A Bat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121535340#Comment_121535340

I'm watching my own son of 3years of age open about 50 presents

Just to take the awful excess out of it and restore a bit of sanity I'd suggest saying to your little fella 'Would you believe I just had Santy on the phone there while I was making the dinner and he was saying how he gave you so many presents because he knows you love to share. Christmas is all about sharing and now you have loads to share with other children. Isn't that great?'

Blanco100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121535356#Comment_121535356

You read my mind, it's exactly what I said to him this morning

Idbatterim

Fair play OP. I would simply set your boundaries going forward and that is that. Another year of this nonsense, enough is enough...

Sonic the Shaghog

Ya tbh OP what would annoy me more is your wife's carry on. All agreeing with you and then tosses you to the wolves once the sister arrives and letting the sister walk all over you in your own home and gives you no bit of backing.

Look I can understand the wrapping the sitting room door I'd let it go, but having balls of presents delivered and you having to store them and then having to collect the family members and now you are telling us you have to sleep somewhere else.

Let me ask you this, does your wife do this in many other ways in ye're marriage?

Sonic the Shaghog

Just reading again and you'll have to cart all this stuff back to her own house too and have to sit through her taking a hundred pics just for Facebook and your wife is giving out to you to not open your mouth and speak against her sister?

Ya no OP you need a serious word with your wife, I think it would annoy me more that shed all one opinion to you and then just does a 180 and just meekly let's your one walk all over her. I think I'd be losing a bit of respect for her if I'm honest.

Rubberchikken

Her history with her sister meas it's probably easier for her to go along with this woman rather than stand up to her.

Easier for your mother in law too I'd say.

I agree that the excessive presents are wasteful and unnecy. Kids are really happy with a couple of toys they really enjoy.

This woman is all about the notice on Facebook, looking like the best mom and so on. It's a little sad really especially for her child.

Hungry Burger

I could think of nothing worse. People losing the run of themselves at Christmas… I always thought that the type of people who are obsessed with Christmas etc, are simple people.

StevenToast

I just had a row with the wife this morning about the amount of presents the young lad (age 4) opened....i wanted to hide them and spread it out over the week....but she was giving it "but sure its christmas"....

The sheer amount that kids get now is disgusting....no appreciation, just give me the next thing....

You are not on your own OP....this christmas shìte has got out of hand....

The world needs sending back a century or 2....

Purple Mountain

Yup OP, it's a tricky one.

Unfortunately if the mum on law won't travel without the sister and grandson, tge only way around it is to invite none of them next year.

You can simply say to your wife that you're not being evicted from your own house for a few days!

Explain again to her your reasons, which sound valid. It's your house!

You can still do something nice for your mum in law. Offer to drive to hers in the days after Christmas and take her out for a nice meal, just her and your family.

Or go collect her for NYE next year to stay over.

The SIL sounds like the type to go out on NYE. Let her find a babysitter and do her own thing.

What SIL gets up to with her money and young lad is her own business so just distance yourself from her and you won't be irked as much by her because you won't know what is happening.

If MIL allows herself to be taken for a ride too, unfortunately that's her choice too.