Mass shooting in Prague city center.

Gatling

@Mad Finn The argument that a well-armed populace with the right to bear arms in public is any sort of deterrent against a determined invader was always bullshit and has been manifestly proved to be bullshit by the events of October 7 in Israel.

A suprise attack involving hundreds of heavily armed terrorists which targets poorly defended areas and one military base that was over run ,

That's like blaming the victims for not getting their military weapons out and defending themselves,

Firearms sales had massively increased in the Baltics along with those taking up training to effectively use said firearms is also on the increase so people believe that they (A) need a firearm (B) need proper training and instructions to use them safely and effectively to protect themselves and their families, the Swiss has a large number of their population armed and trained, while they may not be all walking around with semi automatic rifles on every citizen,they do have the ability to defend themselves if needed be

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121526990#Comment_121526990

I would think that NATO membership might be more of a deterrent to a Russia invasion of the Czech Republic than some random nutter with access to automatic weaponry.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121527082#Comment_121527082

Not to mention Russia would need to go through NATO countries to get there.

The "Russian Bear" who are currently getting decimated in Southern Ukraine.

growleaves

There may be a Sino-Russian joint-initiated world war this decade. I wouldn't think an invasion of Czech territory would fall into the "unthinkable" category.

Guerillas have already been a thorn in the side of Lavrov and co in Belarus:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-belarus-guerillas-sabotage-2c5074209663a2403752bb0c6404b32e

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121527230#Comment_121527230

That would be a nuclear war.

Maybe they can shoot the radiation.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121527385#Comment_121527385

It probably wouldn't be a nuclear war unless someone feels the need to launch nukes. An incursion on NATO soil by Russia would first lead to a conventional military confrontation. Obviously, if China/Russia are looking to take ground, they'd probably prefer it not to be uninhabitable, otherwise there'd be no real point. If we assume that NATO is still a thing at the point this hypothetical were to occur, I presume that NATO aircraft would clash with Sino-Russian ones, while bombing Russian ground forces, as air superiority is the cornerstone of NATO military doctrine. Once Sino-Russian forces were pushed back across the Czech border, it would be China/Russia's move.

But that's all getting way ahead of ourselves. Putin's Russia isn't in a position to make real moves at virtually any other eastern European country so long as its bogged down in Ukraine and NATO holds together. If NATO falls apart and Russia can build up its military strength, then there is the possibility, but neither of these are guaranteed.

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525280#Comment_121525280

Quite a few I'd imagine.

Yoshitsune

The mass shooting and deaths of the victims is horrible. Especially for the families who have to mourn the deaths for the loved ones. With news of mass shootings happening outside of the US would probably result in scrutiny of gun ownership. The shooter is 24, I notice that a lot of shooters are usually young and are socially isolated. I have questions on the shooter and his motives which I hope should come to light.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121526801#Comment_121526801

Your post seems to imply that there was no successful armed resistance. Yet a number of stories of such have emerged, from full kibbutz

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/18/middleeast/hamas-documents-invs/index.html

to individual action

https://charter97.org/en/news/2023/10/10/567055/

Being armed is no guarantee of security. It does, however, provide options which would otherwise not be available.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121527467#Comment_121527467

If China and Russia attack NATO nuclear weapons have failed as a deterrence.

A conventional war would be a overwhelming decisive victory for NATO.

Evidence for this can be currently seen in Ukraine where the Russian Bear have reverted to WW1 tactics against an army who are receiving minimal support from NATO.

Anyway, that has little to do with some scumbag having access to weaponry that can shoot 40 odd people in minutes.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528566#Comment_121528566

TBH it seems to have made a marginal difference in Israel - and that's in a country where all adults, male and female, have done a minimum of two years in the army, so are properly trained. Very different from the USA.

There's also the massive difference that Israelis are basically living in a warzone, or at least a place that has been such multiple times since the founding of the state, and where the threat has never fully gone away.

America, OTOH, has chosen to turn a country whose existence wasn't threatened by any outside forces into a warzone.

That's plain stupid.

To get back on-topic, it will be interesting to see how Czechia responds to this incident: will they shrug and offer up thoughts and prayers, as in the US, or will they change things so that this cannot happen again?

I'm betting on the latter.

Beasty

Back to discussing the topic, which is not World War III

Gatling

It's been been confirmed by police the shooter was responsible for shooting and killing a father and his 2 month old baby last week in the Klánovice forest

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121529729#Comment_121529729

Yes. I read somewhere that the police were coming to question him on suspicion of those killings when they found his father already dead.

Seems like they missed stopping the other killings by just a few hours. Tragic.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121529120#Comment_121529120

Whilst I agree with you that thoughts and prayers has become a bit of a meme in the American context, I would not be so sure about a particularly significant change in legislation in Czechia given the cultural influence involved. It may be worth noting just how significantly Finnish legislation changed after Jokela and Kauhajoki or Norwegian after Utoya and the related attacks.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531762#Comment_121531762

And did they? I confess that I had been thinking more about Australia after that shopping centre shooting decades ago, and Scotland, after the Dunblane shootings. I don't know what happened after Utoya, or how relevant their gun laws were found to be? Nor Finland, which I remember had a couple of school shootings but no memory of whether they changed the law as a result.

Madd Finn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121526967#Comment_121526967

In response to your points, I don't think the Czech resistance to the Nazis in WWII is a good example of any sort of successful guerilla resistance. The Czechs were noticeably reticent to rise up against German occupation and reasonably so given their history. I don't want to take this thread too far away from its main point which is about the recent mass shooting in Prague city centre but the most "successful" act of rebellion during the war was the assassination of Heydrich, which was actually organised from outside by the British, albeit using Czech emigres as the executors. But that was done against the express wishes of the Czech opposition and government in exile who knew only too well what the response would be like. And so it proved.

Which is not to say the Czechs acquiesced willingly to German occupation. On the contrary, the ethnic cleansing of what used to be called the Sudetenland at the end of the war is testament to their loathing of the German presence and remains a stain on the European record. But that took place AFTER Germany had been defeated by conventional armies. Lots of conventional armies.

I define "Normal democracy" quite broadly. It is a state with a functioning and regularly elected executive and legislature, a history of peaceful transfer of power after elections, a basic commitment to individual liberty and human rights, a reasonably competent and minimally corrupt police infrastructure and judiciary and a reasonably liberal free-market environment. I specifically included Israel in that list by implication.

My basic point was and is that allowing everybody to walk around with loaded firearms only gives an illusion of security. Just look at the homicide rates in the US compared to, say European countries if you are uneasy with the term "normal democracy", and especially at the number of fata shootings of citizens by police in that country. The figures are off the charts compared to Europe.

Madd Finn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528566#Comment_121528566

The typical response of an American Gun Rights Advocate (AGRA). "Sure there were 1800 people killed but if it wasn't for Shlomo and his Uzi it might have been 1804, so it was worth it!"

I don't want to divert this too much into a debate about the Middle East and its unfortunate political environment but the only thing that will prevent that sort of thing happening again in Israel is a generally accepted peace settlement. (No, I an NOT going to debate in this thread how that might be achieved) All I am saying is Israel is too good at winning wars to put any effort into winning a peace and seems not to be able to understand that those are two completely different challenges. So, it sticks with a permanently hostile status quo and puts up with the inevitable flareups that occur. It is now trying to "put a stop to Arab terrorism once and for all". Again. And again. And again. How's that working for them? Who wants to live like that?

The situation in Prague is different to Israel. Here it seemed to be an angry lone man, albeit one particularly well equipped to cause mayhem and so he did. It was not a case of an enraged subject population fighting back against decades of oppression, dispersal, demonisation and destruction. There does not need to be a fundamental shift in Czech national policy to deal with this. Just the idea of letting everybody walk around with a gun to "feel safe" is nonsense. As October 7th proved.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121541024#Comment_121541024

There does not need to be a fundamental shift in Czech national policy to deal with this. Just the idea of letting everybody walk around with a gun to "feel safe" is nonsense.

Nothing needs to change or likely won't change,as a regular visitor to the Czech republic it's a relatively safe country I'd fell safer in Prague or Brno than in Dublin most of the time