Prime Time Gender Issues (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

Str8outtaWuhan

Ellen Paige is a lesbian, but now Ellen is Elliot and is hetrosexual. So does that now mean that lesbians are hetrosexual?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505388#Comment_121505388

Huh? I didn't ask you and you don't believe trans people actually exist.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505408#Comment_121505408

Any chance you can answer any of the questions posed to you? The constant deflection gets kinda old across all these threads.

I am 100% sure that at certain times trans people believe that they are trans. A belief system doesn't imply any changes required to reality though.

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505388#Comment_121505388

Interesting BS strawman argument there. No-one is looking to eliminate "toy boys".

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505413#Comment_121505413

Exactly. You believe trans people believe they are trans but you don't believe they are. You don't believe trans people exist.

Str8outtaWuhan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505408#Comment_121505408

Of course trans people exist. They occupy the same category as Muslim people, man utd fans, flat earthers, mayo people and any other group of humans who have a common belief. But like the other groups their belief is rooted in subjective reality. So long as I am not forced by law to believe in their subjective reality, nor fund it through taxation, not have it recognised by my constitution above my own subjective beliefs, im happy for them.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505430#Comment_121505430

"toy boys"?

I assume you mean tomboys? So how about you answer the question of when a tomboy becomes a transboy and how such a conversation is possible without defining any of the terms involved?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505436#Comment_121505436

So thats a solid "no" on answering any questions? Just going to continue shout nonsense from the ditches? Useful.

You seem to be struggling with basic logic here I'm afraid. I don't believe in God, that doesn't mean I don't believe that there are Catholics.

archfi

I've learned over the years that the vast majority of online trans ideological activists and their 'allies' get their news from places like 'Pink News' or captured civil society organisations which trade on their good name but are now being worn like a skinsuit by these people.

I've also learned nothing will ever be achieved by engaging with ideologues of any hue in a quest for adult, fair debate. That is not their objective, ever.

The best forum/social media users can hope for is that passive readers on threads like this one can sort through the garbage and lies and begin to press for more logical, reasoned debate in their families, social circles, schools, colleges, universities, their communities, their political parties, their councils, their government.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505442#Comment_121505442

Noone is forcing you to believe anything. The law legally recognises their right to exist and it should.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505436#Comment_121505436

I believe trans people exist. Obviously.

What I don't believe is that a transgender woman is anything other than a man who believes his feelings are the same as women's feelings, and believes that this makes him an actual woman.

I believe he believes that, and I believe he is mistaken. He feels a need of some sort, and if dressing up as a woman helps him feel better, then I'm absolutely fine with that.

What I'm not ok with is him using female changing rooms or competing with women in sports, because he is still biologically a man, and nothing can change that. Even surgery can only make him look more like a woman, but not make him one.

Birneybau

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505506#Comment_121505506

It's Male Supremacy

Str8outtaWuhan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505502#Comment_121505502

Unless the upcoming hate legislation is used to punish me for refusing to accept their belief. Giving someone the right to belief they are someone and punishing someone for refusing to accept that belief are two different things. Right now we give people the right to believe a Jewish virgin didn't have a child outside wedlock, we don't punish those who refuse to accept that fantasy.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505153#Comment_121505153

I would need to know more about why they came to that decision. Sometimes medical establishments do make mistakes but as a non medical profession it's hard to judge the best approach. Who do you say is making the mistake here?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/irish-gender-affirmation-surgeon-based-in-florida-is-reported-over-false-promotion-in-tiktoks/42051361.html

This Irish doctor moved to America to practice gender reassignment but is on trouble with authorities there over her false promotion of services to teens on social media. It seems she would have set up such unethical practice in Ireland if she could have got away with it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505430#Comment_121505430

Toy boys? I hope nobody is eliminating them 😁

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121504297#Comment_121504297

Why would you need to 'trawl the net'? You say that this is what trans activists are saying - so where exactly did you hear them say this?

Very strange that you can't point to any specific examples. It seems to suggest that you're making up your own stories about what people said so you can find something to argue with rather than actually quoting what people have said. It's a frequent tactic on this thread.

What your asking me to prove is in the Prime Time documentary 🤣🤣

You think you've a gotcha because you want me to provide the exact words 'no questions asked' when what is meant by affirmative care is effectively that, I was only using my own words.

Like how the Irish doctors on PT call their approach "an exploratory approach" trans activists would say this was 'questioning' them using their own words.

Making up stories lol. Like this is what the the thread is about. It's not even about whether puberty blockers or transition surgery are even ever appropriate at all. Or Nazis or flag stomping for that matter.

You're on the back foot here so your persist with your petty point. I don't think you really know much about this topic but your just a stereotypical progressive liberal doing your thing.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505430#Comment_121505430

Here's a strak example of what goes on inside one of Ireland most sinister LGBT NGO's, BelongTo.

https://archive.ph/TVKaP#selection-4683.0-4693.230

She felt the atmosphere at the meetings encouraged young lesbians to declare themselves non-binary or trans so they would be accepted by the group.

“Most of them were just lesbians and would have been tomboys growing up, so they were gender non-conforming because they preferred not to wear dresses,” she said. “Any time someone came out as trans or non-binary they were suddenly taken into the group and very much accepted into the different cliques.

“The adults and youth workers would get us all to clap and cheer and it was very much celebrated, never questioned. They were never receiving help from Belong To for the other issues. It was just, ‘Let’s celebrate this identity’.”

We always suspected this kind of creepy stuff goes on in their 'youth groups' behind the scenes and it was only a matter of time till they would be exposed. There is absolutely no need for lgbt youth groups that BelongTo organize. The last thing young people need is to be exposed to leftist tribes, it's the worst possible thing for them.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505506#Comment_121505506

Couldn't have put it better myself, well done. I would just add that those with gender Disphoria need to be protected and helped with their issues, issues that must not impinge on wider society in the form of language laws, for example not making it a sackable offence to "deadname" or misgender a trans person.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505287#Comment_121505287

I don't get the relevance to be honest but yes, I have spoken to people who use various different pronouns and who would call themselves trans.

Again, maybe I didn't say it on this thread but I genuinely feel for people who are unhappy about how they look and feel.

Would you care to address some of the points I have raised?

https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/

Taking a look at this, it’s a social minefield, and if misuse of all this is adopted here as part of “hate speech”, the prisons would want to expand.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121504945#Comment_121504945

By 'abusing disabled people' I can only assume that you mean having a different opinion to you, and pointing that you don't speak for all disabled people. That's the only abuse that you got.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505021#Comment_121505021

If you beat them hard enough and often enough, they will no longer be left handed. It wasn't just Ireland either, seems to have been a phenomenon in many countries.

https://lefthander-consulting.org/english/information/problem/

And it isn't that far from the approach you're proposing for trans people, that they are somehow faulty and need to fixed to fit into your nice neat boxes. They don't need fixing, they need some support.

What you ignore of course is the harm done by withholding that support from those who need it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505138#Comment_121505138

I've had long debates here without definitions. If you want to play the Gript/GBNews definitions game, knock yourself out, but don't expect me to join in.

Rothko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505138#Comment_121505138

Lol, he thinks defining something is a way to stifle discussion. Says it all. Lol.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505274#Comment_121505274

Have you spoken to many trans people about their childhood?

Do you think that people somehow magically manifest as trans on their 18th birthday?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506307#Comment_121506307

Is this your new 'surgery for minors' thing, where you find something that doesn't happen and no one is actually proposing will happen and try to rile people up about it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505957#Comment_121505957

Do you have any source to suggest that affirmative care is effectively 'no questions asked' please?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505388#Comment_121505388

Who or where is the elimination of tomboys happening please, other than in your own imagination?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505898#Comment_121505898

How exactly did your work out that "It seems she would have set up such unethical practice in Ireland if she could have got away with it"?

Is this your third attempt to rile people up with fictional claims, on top of the 'surgery for minors' and the 'hate speech convictions for pronouns claims?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506137#Comment_121506137

Thank you. Though reading it again, I see that I missed out that only SOME transgender people believe that they are the actual opposite sex. Many others like Blair White or Buck Angel are very clear that they have not changed biological sex. So I should have said SOME believe that.

And perhaps also, to agree with your point about a risk of sanctions for so-called hate speech etc, I should also say that out of politeness I'm happy to use whatever pronouns they wish about trans people, so long as this isn't taken to be some sort of "evidence" that they are the opposite sex to their birth sex, and to make this into an obligation for the rest of us to participate more fully in their beliefs. Same as I don't insult religious people to their faces, nor indeed behind their backs, as long as they don't try to make me follow their rules.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506152#Comment_121506152

You don't across as feeling that way at all in your posts on here about the matter.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506890#Comment_121506890

I've spoken to (at least*) two on an on-going basis thru community organisation work.

One of them, I've stayed in her home, and it was while watching her and her husband work in the garden that I realised very profoundly that despite the clothing, makeup, body-altering hormones and surgery (which I've absolutely not asked about and never would - but 3rd parties tell me was extensive) - she fundamentally still had male body strength, attitude and approach to physical tasks.

(*) at least, because if it's a thorough job, it can be very difficult to tell in casual conversation.

CatFromHue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506693#Comment_121506693

This is why I think you should read Time to Think.

No one knows who the distress will persist or desist in once they're adults but both groups have the same feelings when they're youths. What we do know though is that for the majority it does desist.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506641#Comment_121506641

By 'abusing disabled people' I can only assume that you mean having a different opinion to you, and pointing that you don't speak for all disabled people. That's the only abuse that you got.

The ironing here is delicious.