Legality of charge to return passport.

Peregrinus

I don't know about the courts. It would be massively inefficient, and a huge waste of public money and resources, for lost property to have to be returned through the courts.

You've "questioned its legality to keep someone's property pending payment", but this overlooks the fact that the passport is not the OP's property - it belongs to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. It says so right there on page 1. If the claim is that the owner of property is entitled to recover it from the finder without having to pay any charge, a passport would not be a good test case (unless it was the Minister seeking to recover it).

There's no doubt that the authority could make bye-laws imposing a charge for the recovery of lost items; there's an express authority in the Act for that. Even in relations to items that people own — i.e. not passports — there's no general rule of law that requires a finder always to return the property without any kind of reward or payment. There's a whole slew of laws on bailment (property belongs to A is in the custody of B, no contract provides for this) and there are lots of circumstances in which B can have a claim to be compensated for his trouble in taking care of A's property. "Lost property" facilities are a classic case.

So the issue here is whether the statutory authority to make bye-laws for lost property charges is a problem for the airport authority. If there were no provision of that kind in the act, they could make a reasonable charge on ordinary principles of bailment. But there's an argument that, since the Oireachtas clearly contemplated that bye-laws would provide for this, this overrides the common law rule and they can't charge fees unless and until the bye-laws are made.

Witcher

This is the type of thing now that will lead to them automatically forwarding it to the DFA for filing in the shredder.

'No, no some lad was moaning about the fee...so now..no fee and no passport either'

Automan

Thank you're lucky stars you did not leave it on an aer lingus plane, they use a crowd called WeReturnIt for lost property, they charge 31 euros to return your passport, you cant even collect it as they dont allow collection it has to be shipped to you.

A friend of mine left there phone on an aer lingus plane and had to pay 43 euros to get it back, they asked if they could collect it from the airport but were told they could not collect it they had to wait for it to be delivered.

https://wereturnit.com/

amdublin

I guess someone has to administer Lost & Found property. It costs money to mind and return your property. Someone has to pay for it, why wouldn't it be the person who lost the object.

Does it matter what the object is? Still has the overhead to manage it.

I guess the alternative is that anything "found" is classed as rubbish and thrown in trash and no charge, and no return. Would you prefer that??

Or would you prefer someone collects it, minds it, and is there in the office to hand it to you for the charge of $10?

I know what I would prefer!

Big Gerry

It may be "legal" but it sounds like a really scummy thing to do to hold someone to ransom like that.

But I wouldn't expect any better from an outfit that want to charge people for stopping outside the airport to drop people off.

I wonder if someone left their wallet/phone in a pub or restaurant would the establishment be allowed to pull the same scam to charge people to get their stuff back ?

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520090#Comment_121520090

I would have thought that kind of thing goes with running an airport.

It would be like if someone left their jacket in a bar and then come back the next day looking for it and the barman says you have to pay 20 quid to get the jacket back.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524743#Comment_121524743

Plenty of nightclubs do charge. As did CIE once upon a time, not sure about now

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524743#Comment_121524743

Not quite the same. In this case the airport authorities found his passport, tracked him down, found his contact details and got in tough to let him know and invite him to recover the passport. If you set up a system like that, it takes resources and therefore costs money to run. Who should pay that money, if not the people who benefit from the system?

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525089#Comment_121525089

Of course it costs money to run but its one of those costs of doing business like having toilets etc in the airport.

I just think its really scummy to charge people to get their stuff back.

What if you dropped your phone and I found it should I be able to charge you 50 euro to return your phone ?

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525071#Comment_121525071

I think you're talking about cloakrooms not lost property.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528068#Comment_121528068

No, I'm not.

elperello

If I mislaid something in the airport and got it back safe and sound I would consider €10 a reasonable fee for keeping and returning it.

Having said that it might be better from a PR point of view to add a tiny fraction to the charges every passenger pays and use that to fund the lost property service.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528113#Comment_121528113

The passenger charges are controlled by a third party (CAR/IAA) so that isn't possible. They're also exceptionally low for a large airport - from 2.10 to 12.90 depending on type of passenger and time of year; so there isn't much meat on the bones to begin with.

Heathrow's are £31, Amsterdam €9-22 depending on type and so on.

chrisd2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058326562/legality-of-charge-to-return-passport

Assuming it is an Irish passport, the 10E fee is much less than paying to get it replaced at the passport office.

You should feel lucky it was found and you contacted rather than it sent to the DFA where it would be cancelled.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528127#Comment_121528127

Perhaps it would be possible for the DAA to persuade CAR/IAA that it would be a good idea.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528149#Comment_121528149

You'd have a better chance of winning the Euromillions.

chrisd2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484835#Comment_121484835

DFA staff will record it as lost and cancel it. It will then show on the record when the person applied for a new passport.

It should be noted that though the person pays for the Passport, it officially belongs to the Minister for Foreign Affairs!

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528157#Comment_121528157

I don't buy the tickets so I'd have a better chance of pretty much anything else🙂

Like I said personally I'd be glad to get my property back and pay the fee.

But it would be a nice touch in Ireland of the Welcomes to reunite travellers with their stuff without charge.

amdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524712#Comment_121524712

A lot of nightclubs have a precise time to come in the next day e.g. between 11am-2pm. they have to resource for this etc. I don't think it is unreasonable for them to charge for that service for Lost Property, no

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528113#Comment_121528113

I believe that's how it worked in the past if a suitcase went missing.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528149#Comment_121528149

Government legislation is probably the only way to put an end to this scam.

Big Gerry

I remember about a year ago I found a wallet on the ground near where I live with some cash and a load of cards in it.

I left the wallet into my local Garda station but if I was a scumbag I could of contacted the person who owned the wallet and demand that they pay me an "administration fee" to return it to them.

amdublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528392#Comment_121528392

So imagine it is not just one wallet you found on just one day. On every single day you find 20 wallets lost by 20 different people. All you do is spend your days answering phone calls and arrange return of said wallets. To the point of you cannot do any other work. You are one person who spends all their time on this job of administering and returning people's wallets. And their leather gloves. And their laptops. And their passports

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524743#Comment_121524743

Right. Even though a bar might not have the legal authority to do that, and whereas the airport probably does, it doesn't change the bad feeling it creates. It's like when you walk into the airport, you can make a mistake that is not that crazy. Most of us are under a bit of stress when traveling. But, here they are taking their pound of flesh from your mistake. The funny thing is I lost a passport once when traveling and someone I was traveling with once lost their wallet. In both cases, Ryanair staff found them and returned them to us, free of charge. It goes with running a business...

3DataModem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528058#Comment_121528058

I think you should consider the 10 as your "cost of doing business" and pay it... seems reasonable to me. They have a pretty sophisticated lost property registration and search system (like many airports) and I am glad it exists, and think the fee is reasonable.

I think while you find it scummy, that clearly from this thread plenty disagree with you, and also have provided the (arguably sort of shaky) legal justification and basis.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528416#Comment_121528416

I'd imagine the legal justification is on very dodgy ground.

What right do people have to hold on to items they don't own ?

They are probably just chancing their arm and know that most people are not going to sue them.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528472#Comment_121528472

If they returned the passport to its actual owner - the Minister - it would be cancelled.

There's no legal requirement to hold lost property at all; so the alternative is the bin.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528477#Comment_121528477

Yes but nobody is going to throw iPhone's or wallets with cash etc in the bin.

amdublin

I am finding it really hard to understand why you think the return of lost property should just happen and be a free service?

I work in a hotel where you give me your credit card and in exchange I give you keys to a room for the night. That's it.

Anything outside of that you pay for. Including the return of your lost property. We got sick of the administration around it so now we outsource to a company: we confirm we have your item, *you call the company, they collect the item and put it in the post for you. And charge you a pretty penny for it too.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121528490#Comment_121528490

Why not, if there is a considerable cost to managing them?