2024 F1 General Discussion Thread

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987077#Comment_121987077

Have you seen the WhatsApps?

If they are fake why hasn't Horner / Red Bull stated as much?

It looks like they cant as they are legit so it's "no comment" until it all blows over.

If they are real then I think most would say its sexual harassment by someone in a position of power regardless of any plots to get Horner sacked.

I dont hate Red Bull / Horner. I do think its an interesting case of circling the wagons to protect the person who is more important to the organisation.

vectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987096#Comment_121987096

Lots of "If's" and "Buts" there in your reply which is exactly my point.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987077#Comment_121987077

The power he has in his team means that any relationship like the messages purport to show are problematic.

Red Bull closing ranks and running what seems to be a sham internal investigation adds fuel to the fire. If they were open and transparent about the whole situation it would be treated differently.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987285#Comment_121987285

There were some questions too.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987314#Comment_121987314

I don't think it was a shame investigation. I feel the truth came out within that investigation and redbull realised that much of what took place was dirty dealing to destroy horner.

EltonJohn69

Goodnight Hamilton. Its over. You. Are. Finished.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987334#Comment_121987334

You don't have any evidence that it was a clean investigation or a whitewash. They decided to keep it completely to themselves. If you make a decision on whether the investigation is good or not, is an act of faith. It can't be based on evidence because Red Bull decided not to publish the information necessary to reach a conclusion.

For example, you don't even know what question the investigation was trying to answer.

jj880

Privacy didnt seem to be an issue when Red Bull were able to call Hewitson dishonest and the most they could say regarding the WhatsApps was "some of them start with a lower case letter - oooh very suspicious" but they wouldnt state if they were legitimate or not. Why?

This seems to be the question no-one wants to engage with. I think we know why.

Instead we have: there were dirty dealings / the independent investigation that has to be kept private due to privacy laws (Red Bull double standard when it suits them as already been shown above) cleared him / she knew what she was doing / Jos was involved / power struggle etc. etc.

Horner sexually harassed a direct employee he had authority over. His position would be untenable in any other organisation but not in F1 it seems.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987341#Comment_121987341

I don't think he is. He's finished with this cat though already it seems.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987795#Comment_121987795

Neither do you. I'm giving an opinion and you have yours but I was expecting your response because for whatever reason, you cannot appear to handle discussion on this topic without wanting to immediately win out.

Every time I comment on this topic, you jump all over it. When I initially said there is more to the story than Horner and an assistant, you badgered me to come up with facts or to shut up basically.

I think at this stage all should agree that clearly there is more to the story but you appear to have an unhealthy interest in proving horner the bad guy here.

He must have stolen your girlfriend or something cause you are doing everything in your power here to claim that he should be gone.

It's comical at this stage and as such I could nearly have written your response in advance.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988347#Comment_121988347

Blimey. You've missed the point pretry spectacularly. I haven't said (or implied) that horner should go. I also haven't tried to win the discussion at all. In fact, I've been pretty clear that we don't know what happened because, well it's true.

We don't know whether the investigation was independent or not because we don't have evidence one way or the other. We don't even know what the investigation question or scope or findings.

I wonder if you're mistaking me for another poster. Can you quote or even paraphrase something I've said that suggests Horner should be gone?

vectra

Innocent until proven guilty comes to mind where Christian is concerned.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991009#Comment_121991009

Innocent because we don't know what the investigation covered or uncovered and because they don't want to rock the applecart is more accurate...

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988519#Comment_121988519

No confusion.

If you look at the thread. Any comment by myself will be followed by an argumentative post be you. I would say something as simple as there is more to this than meets the eye or its dirty politics internal to redbull only to see a response stating something like you cannot possibly know what went on.

No room for discussion, straight to the show your proof or take it back kinda attitude.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991586#Comment_121991586

Yeah, I get it. I hate it when people ask for evidence to back up assertions....

And any quotes or paraphrase of me saying Horner should go?

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991009#Comment_121991009

And in the court of public opinion I think it's fair to say he's guilty. The messages are pretty damning and inexcusable. Nobody has denied their legitimacy. They cannot simply be ignored.

vectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991946#Comment_121991946

"Public opinion" « Nosey busybodies
"Nobody has denied their legitimacy" < The accuser has been suspended for being dishonest. ! Hmm. She has remained silent in public, having signed a legal document which prohibits her from discussing the matter with anyone other than her immediate family.

So how do you expect more information to be made public?

I honestly cannot understand why people need to be involved in other people lives and affairs. After all we are all here for the racing and not for who is banging who.

vectra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991202#Comment_121991202

And you badly need to know because?
Maybe you live a boring life and need to have your nose stuck in other peoples affairs?

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991988#Comment_121991988

"Public opinion" « Nosey busybodies

You're on a forum yourself discussing it. Horner is a public figure who makes money off that. Its the social contract he signed up for. I've no sympathy for him or any celeb caught in a scandal.

The accuser has been suspended for being dishonest.

And yet, RB have not denied the legitimacy of the texts. Nobody has come out to say they're false. Its reasonable to assume they're real. There's zero evidence to suggest otherwise. Nobody knows what happened in that investigation, its confidential and understandably so. That also means people will speculate the other way.

I honestly cannot understand why people need to be involved in other people lives and affairs. After all we are all here for the racing and not for who is banging who.

You're here for the racing. Others are not. A lot of people are "Drive to Survive" people which isn't really about the racing.

You want innocent until proven guilty despite the very obvious evidence otherwise. You might not like people discussing scandals and rumours but well a lot of other people do enjoy it. Red Bull have done a bad job managing this but it'll all blow over soon. The only place I see this being discussed is random forums, its no longer front page news.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991946#Comment_121991946

Ah, I don't want to be part if the court of public opinion. I'll either reach a conclusion based on actual evidence or admit I don't have enough evidence to reach a conclusion. That's why we can't say whether the investigation was meaningful because we don't have any info on how it was done or what question it was trying to answer.

The text messages are interesting. They show Horner was flirting or sexting an employee. Assuming they're legitimate, they don't demonstrate coercive control on their own and they are all the evidence we have. They might show an inappropriate workplace relationship but that's not really the original accusation of coercive control.

We don't know if he was just having the an affair which would be a matter for the Horners to sort out and shouldn't really ge any of our business.

Ref bull could sort it all out by being transparent about the investigation. As it stands the whole thing is indistinguishable from a cover up by a powerful institution. That doesn't mean it is a cover up. It just means we can't tell which is tge case and that's a matter of integrity for the sport

jj880

The legitimacy and lack of denial of the WhatsApps wont go away no matter how much people try to ignore and deflect. Some would prefer a private investigation outcome to be the only "evidence" discussed. Quite bizarre really. Its inconvenient for certain arguments thats for sure. The stink of those messages will hang around for a good while yet.

LIGHTNING

This thread is getting a bit of out control. Lets focus back on the racing side of it. If somebody wants to create a seperate thread for the Red Bull stuff feel free but I dont want any more of it in here.

Harika

SO back to Red Bull, just kidding, no really though :P Perez said that he will know about next year in two weeks time, what I first thought thats interesting, then thought that this will delay until summer break. Or home race at Red Bull. Reality is there is not much need in replacing him. Second in championship and whom to replace him?
Alonso to bring some spice into it?
Sainz who did not score favorable, against Verstappen, when in the same team, but is in the form of his life?
Tsunoda who demolishes a struggling Ricciardo?

Jacovs

If Verstappen is committed to RedBull until at least 2028 (as he has alluded to, assuming he wins every season and breaks the record then), then RedBull still have plenty of time to find a successor and Perez could be safe for another year or 2 if he keeps going like he is now. Perez is 34 now so in 2 years at 36 he could retire or move to a lower team.

Sainz has 5 years on Perez, but still 3 years older than Verstappen, so he wont be a successor in 4/5 years from now.

Tsunoda 3 years younger than Verstappen, and driving very well at the moment. Think he needs a bit more time, he is very hot headed. Not sure about him in RedBull, but possible in a year or 2 when Perez leaves if he keeps going the way he is and matures a bit.

Id say its time for daddy Stroll to cut his son from the team, get Sainz alongside Alonso for a year or 2 and then let him lead the team with another driver next to him from there on.

Last few races aside, would like to see Albon at Mercedes, think he deserves to drive for a better team.

Harika

Sainz is on the shopping list of a lot of teams
Sauber/Audi he was named long time ago as their desired driver.
Red Bull might be an option
Mercedes safe bet to support Russell until Antonelli can jump in
Aston Martin - Multiple race winner they will like and might replace Alonso as Nr 1

muckwarrior

Reality is there is not much need in replacing him. Second in championship and whom to replace him?

He made a meal of getting second place in the championship last year, in the best car on the grid, ending up with less than half the points of his team mate. I was amazed when one of the commentators mentioned after Japan Quali that it was Red Bull's first front row lockout since the start of last season. He did a good job in Japan, but overall he has underperformed the past year.

Jordan 199

I thought the Chinese Grand Prix was on this weekend. Now it isin't

#feelindeflated

Frank Bullitt

I do hope Sainz doesn't go to Audi, that is a big step back for him at this stage.

Perez has that seat at Red Bull, the only way I could see them getting rid is if he wanted a longer contract than they are willing to offer.

PsychoPete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993699#Comment_121993699

Aston will need drivers for the Valkyrie in wec for 2025, that would be ideal for lance. Sainz and Alonso for 2025 would be an excellent line up

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994530#Comment_121994530

That is a tad wishful, but I am with you.

Stroll really isn't deserving of that seat, not on merit at all.