Bullying in the Army - A Whistle Blower is being driven out of his mind

evolvingtipperary101 · 04-12-2023 5:15pm #1

The Army not only seems like a forgotten one but a very toxic environment with a brutal culture towards women and new soldiers in general.

The previous attempt to discuss the issue was removed. Is supervision of the Military discussions neutral or are there army personnel involved?

A very disturbing account below:

Soldier who blew whistle on bullying left to man phone that never rings (irishexaminer.com)

jonnybigwallet · 04-12-2023 5:33pm

Doesn't make a good read. No wonder they can't get people to join up.

04-12-2023 6:04pm

maybe I’m misunderstanding so by all means let me know if I’ve missed the mark here but…

none of what I read seems that out of order for army cadet training? Like the one who was told she’d be kicked out for getting injured, what’s the problem there?

If you’re injured and can’t finish the training what are they meant to do? As for calling them “scum” or telling them to “fcuk off a die”, I mean again as an army cadet if that breaks your heart then God bless you but perhaps another job is better for you.

I’ve never imagined army life and especially the training as anything less than pure hell. I would have assumed that was done by design. At the risk of sounding just horrible and I hope it’s not sounding that way, if you’re not tough enough to have a few yells let at you or a few things thrown at ye then you’re prob not fit for army life!

I’ve had worse in the kitchen 😂

mondeoman72 · 04-12-2023 6:13pm

Been happening for years and has been highlighted previously.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/irish-army-glamour-girl-i-was-sexually-assaulted-at-barracks/28466433.html

evolvingtipperary101 · 04-12-2023 6:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454021#Comment_121454021

A headbutt from an NCO after asking to stop bullying some of his friends that requires reconstructive nose surgery?

evolvingtipperary101 · 04-12-2023 6:34pm

Discharges for Sexual Assault: In the last 10 years, only three members of the Irish Defence Forces have been discharged after being found guilty of sexual assault, despite there being more than a dozen official complaints of alleged assaults.
Reported Cases: There have been 13 cases of alleged sexual assault reported in the Defence Forces since 2012, as per figures released under the Freedom of Information Act.
Sexual Harassment Reports: There has been only one formal report of sexual harassment recorded by the military over the same 12-year period.
Bullying Complaints: Approximately 35 complaints of bullying have been made in the Defence Forces, with less than a quarter being upheld following internal investigations, and several being withdrawn.
Handling of Sexual Assaults and Harassment: The Defence Forces have faced criticism for their handling of sexual assaults and harassment. An independent report earlier this year found a toxic culture in the military that "barely tolerated" women, with sexual abuse, physical abuse, and bullying being common issues.
Government Response: The government has committed to setting up a tribunal of inquiry into sexual abuse and bullying in the Defence Forces.
Increase in Reports: The number of personnel reporting alleged sexual assaults has slightly increased in recent years, with three alleged assaults reported in the last year and two in the current year.
Court Martial Findings: Since 2012, courts martial have found members guilty of sexual assault in six cases, with half resulting in dismissal or discharge. Other consequences included demotion, fines, suspensions, and reprimands.
Views of the Women of Honour Group: This group, comprising former Defence Forces members campaigning against sexual abuse in the military, believes that the actual prevalence of sexual assaults and harassment is much higher than reported. They claim that many do not feel comfortable making formal complaints due to fear of retaliation or being seen as problematic.
Defence Forces' Measures: In response, the Defence Forces have implemented measures like unconscious bias training and mandatory sexual ethics workshops. They are also conducting a full review of the complaints procedure and referring any complaints of a sexual nature immediately to the gardaí.

Dohvolle · 04-12-2023 7:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454151#Comment_121454151

Its pretty simple.

What went on in the past, even if we all put up with it, was wrong. It stops now.

We all saw it, if we wore the uniform. We went along with it because we didn't want to become a target ourselves, and that's the reality. Some even became abusers when they got promoted because they believed, wrongly, that was the expectation that came with promotion.

No ifs buts or maybes. Society has evolved, that behaviour in any workplace is not tolerated. Same bullshit was common in the catering industry too for years, Head chefs all thinking they are Gordon Ramsey, but it's just not tolerated any more. What I saw, was where it still went on, those were the shittier end of the scale, places like the Park Hotel in Kenmare by contrast had a kitchen atmosphere more like a party, where everyone loved coming to work, everyone had the craic, while working hard, and all partied hard when off work. Same with all the 5 and 6 star kitchens. Staff treated with respect by management and colleagues show greater loyalty to their job.

Used to be the same on building sites, but H&S is so strict now you are as likely to be walked off a site for verbally abusing a colleague as you are for operating a con saw without the guard fitted, while wearing flip flops, raybans and fingerless gloves with your bermuda shorts.

The rules were set over 20 years ago. No touching, no bullying, no harassment or intimidation by those with rank to those under training. Military training can still be military training without raping or assaulting people under training.

How hard is it to comprehend?

The system failed to operate the policy in a fair, measured and consistent manner. This is down to a failure by successive leaders, and those under their command. It came from a time when guys "threw themselves into the army" before they ended up in prison, and discipline dealt with them accordingly.

That's in the past.

Manic Moran · 15-12-2023 3:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325641/bullying-in-the-army-a-whistle-blower-is-being-driven-out-of-his-mind

[MOD]I have never deleted a thread, though I have closed them. I also have no dog in this hunt, as I am not even living in Ireland, let alone am I a part of the Irish military. Whatever happened to any previous thread, it was certainly not 'removed'.[/MOD]

evolvingtipperary101 · 15-12-2023 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454522#Comment_121454522

The last twenty years?

"That's in the past.' you state. It's not. The first three points make that clear.

Discharges for Sexual Assault: In the last 10 years, only three members of the Irish Defence Forces have been discharged after being found guilty of sexual assault, despite there being more than a dozen official complaints of alleged assaults.
Reported Cases: There have been 13 cases of alleged sexual assault reported in the Defence Forces since 2012, as per figures released under the Freedom of Information Act.
Sexual Harassment Reports: There has been only one formal report of sexual harassment recorded by the military over the same 12-year period.

Are you sticking your head in the sand?

From article in may of this year: 'So why has changing the military’s culture been so hard? The problem isn’t just the scale of the abuse, but the Defence Forces’ determined resistance to scrutiny and institutional reform.

Tom Clonan, a former Irish army officer and now a senator, learned that the hard way at the turn of the millennium when his PhD on the experiences of female officers kicked the scandal off.

“I interviewed 60 of my female colleagues,” he recalls, “and 59 of them reported some kind of discrimination, bullying, sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape. One in four of them disclosed a serious sexual assault, including rape. The armed forces also had policies that were explicitly discriminatory as they applied to women and men.'

Can the Irish Defence Forces end their culture of sexual abuse? | Euronews

evolvingtipperary101 · 15-12-2023 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497375#Comment_121497375

Closed them... You don't have to live in the country to be pro army or army biased. And I'm not saying the poster is. I'm just asking why this isn't properly discussed?

A poster tries to maintain this is in the past when it's very much a current issue. Seems to be a concerted effort to bury this without discussing it.

evolvingtipperary101 · 15-12-2023 11:14am

"In the subsequent years, the Defence Forces were forced to alter their discriminatory policies and put various safeguards in place. But then, on 11th September 2021, a newly formed group of servicemembers came forward with shocking new allegations – ones that landed the Irish military and government in scandal all over again.

The Women of Honour first came to public awareness in 2021 thanks to an eponymous RTE documentary detailing both their experiences of ongoing abuses in the ranks and the aims of their nascent campaign: to force the issue back into the public eye and hold those responsible to account.

Since they put their heads above the parapet, the Women of Honour have helped spur the government into action. An Independent Review Group (IRG) was mandated to produce new recommendations on dealing with military abuse issue. Its conclusions were released this spring, and they made for depressing reading. Among them were confirmation that women are still granted only “low status” in the military, and that “gender and particular hypermasculinities are strong organising forces in the culture”.

Can the Irish Defence Forces end their culture of sexual abuse? | Euronews