RTE Investigates: Irish Planning Extortion

For Forks Sake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456253#Comment_121456253

It's there:

https://www.rte.ie/player/series/rt%C3%A9-investigates-the-planning-trap/10001424-00-0000?epguid=IH10001423-23-0003

Ten of Swords

Surprised this isn't being featured more prominently in today's news. Apart from a couple of fluff pieces last night after the show aired and a few articles way down in the list of stories this isn't really being discussed much in most news outlets today

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456271#Comment_121456271

I just thought it was funny someone having a go at Fine Gael over something like this when you have Sinn Fein who have serious criminals in their ranks. Im not some die hard Fine Gael supporter either, I voted for them in the last election but will be voting Fianna Fail in the next one.

I think them 2 brothers are dirt by the way and anyone who acts like they did and I hope they get prison time for what they did.

lawrencesummers

This is just another example of the terrible legal system we have which works to serve those with their nose in the troff instead of the public.

If the legal system was able to process these judicial reviews in a timely fashion instead of 2 years then these two gangsters wouldn't be able to operate.

Its the same with many other areas. Direct provision centers full with people for years while their cases are delayed and delayed legally.

Insurance premiums high because of dubious legal claims brought by the legal profession to get their slice of the pie.

A revolving door for crime and criminals, i dont need to say any more about that.

If you take the entire legal system which is dinosaur not fit for purpose and reform it with modern standards you could both save money and provide to the people at they need.

spaceHopper

If Verona Murphy brought it up with ABP and they did nothing, do you think they even launched their own investigation or had the brothers protection?

In a statement, An Bord Pleanála confirmed its former interim chairperson Oonagh Buckley had spoken with Verona Murphy, and that she was told about people making an appeal for financial gain.

However, the statement says An Bord Pleanála did not have sufficient information to take the matter further.

https://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/2023/1204/1420117-meeting-between-objectors-and-developer-observed-by-verona-murphy/

mickdw

The system I'd crap and this shouldn't go on but I'm not going to cry for the property developers either.

Programme smells alittle bit government supported perhaps to help with introduction of new planning bill which might take away some powers from the people.

The programme made developers out to be heros providing housing for the people.

The same property developers are well able screw their own customers when the going is good so not a bit of pity for them and no its not a cost passed on to customer. They will charge the highest price they can get per unit regardless of profit levels.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456545#Comment_121456545

Too many people with their nose in the money unfortunately. This wasn't run to protect and serve members of the public and address the housing crisis. It was done solely for the developers benefit. It's a murky enough world and these two belong in it.

I'd love RTE investigates to run an expose as a follow on from this and reveal the massive profits a developer will make on a 3 bed semi.

What should also be done as part of that is an expose on the developers who were let walk away from hundreds of millions of euros worth of debt. Where are they now? I know at least 3 in my local area who are now making serious profits again and have never been held to account. That's not right.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456599#Comment_121456599

This stuff really should belong in the conspiracy theories forum.

In Ireland, we love going on about fraudulent behaviour, and why is nothing ever apparently done about fraudulent behaviour. Yet when fraudulent behaviour is exposed, we equivocate. "Ah yea it's terrible but sure it's just property developers", "ah he was a member of FG and ran for election like 15 years ago, and THAT'S what we should focus on".

It's similar to how we celebrate cute-hoorism with other people who game/cheat the system.

It doesn't matter if it's property developers or an elderly granny getting screwed, fraud is fraud and either we're serious about addressing it when it's exposed or we're not.

Ireland's planning system is too open and exposed to this sort of abuse. Yea it's great that everyone and anyone can lodge an appeal about anything anywhere, but this is the flip side of the coin of that argument. I think there is a serious discussion needed about restricting planning objections somewhat, there is surely a happy medium to be found.

But you can bet that the same people expressing outrage at this will be the same people expressing outrage if planning was changed. Go figure.

I think everyone apart from the most dim-witted understands we need property developers to build more houses in order to ease our housing crisis, and anything that slows this process down for nefarious reasons is not in the interest of Irish citizens. This sort of garbage is contributing to our housing crisis.

STB.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456599#Comment_121456599

The programme highlights the apparent actions of 2 individuals who some might say were gaming the system for financial gain.

Not to be confused with the rights of individuals to object or comment on planing developments.

And you think the programme is something to do with Government agenda to push new planning laws through. That doesn't even make sense.

Same as the comment above yours about Judicial Reviews which makes no sense either. JR's and the Appeals Process/Right to comment are completely separate areas.

Northernlily

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456545#Comment_121456545

The legal system does seem to be the cause of a lot of our woes.

Gregor Samsa

And by the way - it’s not just residential property developers that get targeted by spurious objections from people that are in no way affected by the development.

A pet crematorium in the back of an industrial estate in Ennis, Co. Clare received just one planning objection when it was proposed in 2022 - from a guy called “Don Weldon” in Navan, Co. Meath, 175 km away. One of the grounds for objection was inadequate parking!

It turned out there was actually no “Don Weldon” at the complainant’s address in Meath - but there was a “Dawn Weldon” there who worked for a local pet crematorium in Trim.

Planning was eventually given, but only after a significant delay

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/pet-crematorium-gets-go-ahead-despite-single-objection-from-other-side-of-the-country/41551840.html

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456627#Comment_121456627

I'm outraged by what these two gougers are at. It's disgusting. I'm also outraged about the fact that the developers, government and vulture funds screw over people for profit. It's possible to be disgusted at both.

arctictree

Obviously you cant just charge 5K for an objection as that would prevent people of limited means lodging a genuine objection. But there must be some way of weeding out serial objectors who are just in it for the payoff.

arctictree

Obviously you cant just charge 5K for an objection as that would prevent people of limited means lodging a genuine objection. But there must be some way of weeding out serial objectors who are just in it for the payoff.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456764#Comment_121456764

Common sense? If an objector is living hundreds of KM's from these developments that should raise flags straight away.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456829#Comment_121456829

There should certainly be much stricter criteria for lodging objections.

If you are a local then you can submit objections for any reason (within limits) like traffic , visual/noise impact etc.

But once you are beyond say 5-10kms away then the criteria under which you can lodge objections should be seriously restricted and limited to very specific items and should also need to come with more significant supporting evidence etc.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456900#Comment_121456900

I think it would be fair to have a charge for people objecting to things that don't materially impact them directly on top of this.

I understand why it's important that the less well off are not railroaded over when it comes to their own property, however I don't see why someone living in Wicklow needs to be able to object to something in Mayo for free.

Ten of Swords

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456900#Comment_121456900

While true that doesn't solve the problem in the first instance, namely it will still (in theory) take ABP a year to review the objection and see that it's invalid due to [INSERT CRITERIA HERE].

The issue is the delay, not whether the objection has merit or not

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456974#Comment_121456974

Absolutely. Its bizarre really that this hasn't beem addressed before now.

These two lads will have their cards marked now though. That expose last night was shocking to say the least. The necks of them. Pure ignorant.

They will mess with the wrong developer. There are stories of developers paying protection / security "consultants" all over the place. Im sure a visit from some of that lot would soften their cough a fair bit.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456974#Comment_121456974

Agree completely.

I think that administrative bodies should have the ability to submit an objection for certain reasons , but that ability should be limited to registered and certified bodies.

I'd have no issue in principal with a registered environmental group submitting an objection for a development anywhere in the country but ONLY if they are "pre-vetted" as it were.

For example - A wild-life organisation lodging an objection to a development on breeding grounds for an endangered species or something like that.

If you are an advocacy group for something, then go through a process and get yourselves registered as a valid organisation that has shown themselves to have the abilities/knowledge to submit objections/questions regarding planning - This should need to be reviewed/renewed every few years.

So , the scenario described in the RTE program should absolutely categorically not be possible.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121457202#Comment_121457202

Or you could just ensure that ABP does the job its mean to do in the timeframe its obliged to do it and then frivolous objections wont matter because they will only delay proceedings by weeks not years

chooseusername

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/1205/1420364-diageo-appeal/

On 20th 0f Nov. RTE sent Callaghan a right of reply letter.

3 days he withdraws his objection!

Dr Turk Turkelton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121460372#Comment_121460372

So a €200m project is under threat due to planning delays.

Shows how bad this country is when a fat fcuk like him can jeopardise a project like that for money.

Seriously need to look at the whole planning system.

BrianD3

This individual has had objections to wind farms and a development at Tara mines. The wind farm would apparently "adversely impact on the health and development of his autistic son".

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/father-fears-proposed-wind-farm-will-affect-autistic-son-7/30777296.html

He has been praised on social media by Senator Regina Doherty for his work in relation to this.

Slippery cute hoor but clever enough in the RTE programme not to make a straight demand for money.

Something that I haven't seen discussed much is the claim by RTE that 70% of An Bord Pleanala appeals are not decided within the 18 week target. What about the other 30%? if a developer just happened to have connections to someone in ABP would they magically find themselves in the 30%? While others end up handing over tens of thousands to John Callaghan to make environmental concerns "evaporate".

Anyhow I've no doubt that this sort of crap happens in other aspect of Irish life too. We have a health service in disarray with multi year waiting lists for treatment. Many of the same consultants working in the public system have their own private clinics. There is great potential for skulduggery here to manipulate the system so that patients are steered towards private clinics for financial gain.

MegamanBoo

I can understand gougers trying to take advantage of a loophole.

What sickens me is that it seems Minister For Driving Up The Price Of Housing, Darragh O'Brien, knew of these practices and did sweet FA about it.

https://www.thejournal.ie/developer-received-demand-of-e500000-for-withdrawal-of-objection-to-housing-scheme-dail-told-6243131-Dec2023/

Why do people keep voting FFG???? Just why?

Beta Ray Bill

In fairness the planning bill is a huge piece of legislation that attempts to tackles this.

However it's very unlikely to make it through.

I think the planning board needs to be reorganized, and more staff added, in combination with a more relaxed piece of legislation.

duck.duck.go

I would strongly object to any wind farms anywhere near me unless everyone on the road gets free electricity for the life of that farm.

I don’t see why we need to carpet bomb the countryside with them and new power lines when a single nuclear plant on a site 800m square can generate more power for cheaper and greener with 3x longer operational lifespan

roosterman71

This hasn't got any traction in the media and I wonder if it's because its "environment" related and paints that cohort in a bad light. Unlike say the expose on the calf welfare which got wall to wall coverage

Mick ah

I rarely comment. But the ignorance of that statement is unbelievable.

Nuclear power is not cheaper.

And, I doubt you'd want a reactor anywhere near your home, regardless of how much free electricity they would give you.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486640#Comment_121486640

And you're OK with the nuke plant going sited on your road, presumably?