Our planning system backin the news

Bridget Clarke

The self-styled NGO withdrawing planning appeals for cash

https://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/2023/1203/1419888-the-self-styled-ngo-withdrawing-planning-appeals-for-cash/

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325606/our-planning-system-backin-the-news

They aren't using the money for gym memberships. Thats for sure.

Could be quite a lucrative “career”, time to let my bot trawl planning applications and put in objections and letters to entities that I will withdraw objection in exchange for a bit of loot. 🧐

Kaybaykwah

(Planning objections "evaporate" when a sum is handed over to the Callaghans.)

The two brothers look like they need some evaporation, too. Maybe prison food would help them thin out.

SuperBowserWorld

These are the kinds of lads that sided with the British during the famine.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325606/our-planning-system-backin-the-news

They are not any style of NGO.

Montage of Feck

The NGO sector is out of control in this country, the tyranny once wraith by the church has been opened up to the private sector in a free for all.

Kimbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121452998#Comment_121452998

I take it youve never been to prison then.......... the food is actually really good ;)

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453221#Comment_121453221

They are not an NGO.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453396#Comment_121453396

RTE Prime Time are referring to them as an NGO, so rather than continuously responding to every post on this thread that they aren’t, take it up with RTE instead.

No prizes for guessing what sector you are employed in, though.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453437#Comment_121453437

They are not an NGO.

RTE are calling them a "self styled NGO".

Anyone can call themselves something it doesn't make it fact.

If you read the link you will see what someone actually in the NGO sector thinks about them.

https://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/2023/1203/1419888-the-self-styled-ngo-withdrawing-planning-appeals-for-cash/

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453437#Comment_121453437

Didn’t RTE refer to them as a “self styled” NGO? Maybe you missed that piece of the article.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453459#Comment_121453459

You seem to think I have any respect for the NGO sector in this country. The level of parasitic behaviour these lads are accused of would seem par for the course. Between Anthony Flynn and the Fr McVerry trust, and all the cases in between, it’s a complete scam that allows the incompetent and the ill-intentioned to suck away at the government teat with no governance standards whatsoever.

Like I said, these lads fit right in.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453475#Comment_121453475

“In this story, the environmental NGO, normally the group we trust to protect the environment, are not actually the good guys.”

RTE don’t call them self-styled until later in the article and inconsistently. Maybe you missed that bit of the article?

expectationlost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453221#Comment_121453221

seem they got you hook line and sinker

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453498#Comment_121453498

Like I said they are not an NGO.

Your views on the NGO sector are irrelevant to this thread.

The gentlemen in question are not in any way related to the NGO sector.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453531#Comment_121453531

I hope you include this thread when you apply for your next round of funding. Try not to suck all the resources out of the productive economy for your pet project and wildly-inflated salary. Have a good one!

Duplicate on mobile

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453511#Comment_121453511

The clue is in the headline. Right at the very start. Maybe you missed this.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453583#Comment_121453583

I'll ignore your ad hominem nonsense for now.

You just got the wrong end of the stick is all its not the end of the world.

Watch the the programme tonight and all will be revealed.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453531#Comment_121453531

Anyone can set up an NGO, it's literally just an acronym for a private enterprise, so i, you, or they are entitled to call themselves one as much as any other NGO is. It's not an official designation, it's just a term that's been dreamed up that people have bought into, in reality it's meaningless.

Kaybaykwah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453253#Comment_121453253

Good for them, then. Give them a double helping of a sentence.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121454655#Comment_121454655

Just like anyone with a printer can pass themselves off as a business.

But five minutes of doing a bit of due diligence will expose them.

What exactly our heroes sought to achieve by passing themselves off as an NGO is unclear to me so far.

Difficult to imagine hard nosed developers being taken in too easily.

I suggest you watch the programme tonight.

You will see what the genuine NGO sector thinks of the antics of this pair.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453396#Comment_121453396

It seems kind of of immaterial whether they are or not. That's not the story here. Focusing on the accuracy of "self-styled NGO" seems trivial. But FWIW, the self-styled prefix does appear to make it an accurate statement.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121455134#Comment_121455134

As an aside, what defines a "genuine NGO"?

Not entirely sure what you mean by 'hard nosed developers being taken in". The lads weren't masquerading as potential NGO objectors, they were actually do it, actually lodging objections - and soliciting payments to withdraw. The builders were not tricked in any way, what was insinuated was exactly what was happening.

Lumen

I have two questions that have not been answered yet by the RTE article or this thread.

1. Is what they did illegal?

2. If not, what change in law would make it so?

Any ideas?

I'm hoping I won't have to watch the actual programme because RTE Player causes cancer and impotence.

That said, the issue of what constitutes an NGO is fascinating and I'd love to read another ten pages of bickering until everyone's hobby horses die of exhaustion.

sydthebeat

The very first thing that should happen on foot of this programme is ABP should consider every appeal with any connection to these two chancers are being "vexatious" and should throw out the appeal. I'm sure this would lighten their work load a bit.

The next, more medium term thing to do, is to ensure anyone making a planning objection on a planning appeal must show they have some legal interest in some property which will be affected by the application. It's completely laughable that a private citizen in Wicklow can appeal a planning application in Galway with zero interest in anything that would be affected by the application.

An bord Pleanala should undergo a huge change, including a name change, and be properly funded to ensure that applications are deadly with within a statutory period, or if not, the appeal is deemed withdraw.

The current situation is ABP are not even giving out decision dates anymore because they are so backlogged.

Any application that goes to ABP can be simply forgotten about because you won't see it for about two years at this stage

Lumen

Is there any kind of gatekeeping process with ABP? If not then it doesn't matter what happens to the appeal after two years.

This was reported on a couple of weeks ago. Not sure whether there's any overlap.

Garda fraud squad investigates allegations of ‘extortion’ over housing objections

In the middle of a housing crisis, there have been several allegations of “go away money” being sought to withdraw objections.

Gardaí have now confirmed a case in Dublin is under criminal investigation by the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau (GNECB).

...

Mr Fanning pointed to section 17 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, which states: “It shall be an offence for any person who, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, makes any unwarranted demand with menaces.”

Mr Fanning said this law is finely balanced to prohibit improper activity while allowing for compromises that are necessary in domestic and commercial life, including the settlement of claims and business arrangements.

“Any alteration of this balance would require very careful consideration and would not be without risk. While the position may change when the outcome of the current criminal investigation is known, at this point it is not clear that there is a need to reform section 17 of the 1994 Act,” he wrote.

The attorney general also advised that sections 6 and 7 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act may apply in instances such as these.

Section 17 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act:

(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—

(a) on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to both,

(b) on conviction on indictment to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years or to both.

Section 6 of Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.

Section 7 of Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.

So it seems we might have enough law already, but it can't be enforced if incidents aren't reported.

TruthorBust

It would be a service to all of us if these 2 scrotes would evaporate

Water John

This is plainly extortion, cloaked with a light cover. Its the same as the boys who come to the door, offering to 'tarmac' your drive or 'fix' your slates. Just at a higher level. More widespread however is the use of objections to ABP to delay projects so much as to make them non viable.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121455653#Comment_121455653

It might seem immaterial to you but if you look at the thread you will see that the story sparked off a certain amount of anti NGO posting.

I was posting to counter that.

Clearly it matters to the ENGO sector as evidenced by the contributions to the programme by their spokesperson Sadhbh O'Neill.

A genuine NGO is properly constituted with a board or committee. It has a structure and set aims which are publicly declared. It publishes annual accounts and is tax compliant.

In short it's the opposite of two guys printing off a letterhead.

Any developers I ever had dealings with would consider themselves hard nosed and men of the world. They wouldn't necessarily see it as pejorative term.

I couldn't see them being fooled so easily.

After watching the programme and Upfront after it I'm still not sure why they used used the fake NGO tactic. As you say the builders knew exactly what they were dealing with.

Perhaps it was a cover for the "consultancy" services they offered.

No doubt we will hear more about these gentlemen and a clearer picture will emerge over time.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456651#Comment_121456651

After watching the programme and Upfront after it I'm still not sure why they used used the fake NGO tactic.

It was simply cover for them involving themselves in cases that they had no personal interest in.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456028#Comment_121456028

In terms of planning law, no I don’t believe so. But overall, clearly extortion.

It’s a separate aspect of law and not up to LAs or ABP to police imo. If ABP is under resourced, that’s a separate issue.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456651#Comment_121456651

I didn’t miss those posts in the thread. I also consider those posts to be irrelevant. They are random opinions online, as are your posts and mine. None of these are part of the story. The No True Scotsman argument is immaterial imo.

Clearly it matters to the ENGO sector as evidenced by the contributions to the programme by their spokesperson Sadhbh O'Neill.

I had never head of that person. But their online profile does not highlight relevance. English degree, Yoga diploma, Philosophy PHD. Lots of campaigns. Seems like another fake expert tbh.

A genuine NGO is properly constituted with a board or committee. It has a structure and set aims which are publicly declared. It publishes annual accounts and is tax compliant.

Is a board or number of staff required? I’d a suite of 5 excluded? Is the constitution/accounts etc required to be published? Does the law say that? Genuine question.

We dont know whether these guys were paying tax. Of course they should.

im not claiming these guys were a NGO. I’m literally curious whether NGO status is a legal definition

I couldn't see them being fooled so easily.

who was fooled? It was objection for ransom. Even if they knew it was BS, the fact if exists means they have to respond.