What is being done to address the M50 problem?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446763#Comment_121446763

Meh, Dublin's issue is sprawl and it's "iconic" skyline which must be preserved

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446772#Comment_121446772

The sprawl is very much a result of successive govt economic policies. Also planning policies both urban and rural.

Kermit.de.frog

More lanes and major junction upgrades will help OP. There should be at least 5 lanes each way on the M50 and larger proper flyovers at all junctions catering for all movements to enhance capacity and also removal of any remaining roundabouts on approach roads.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447073#Comment_121447073

It wouldn't matter.

More capacity = more cars will use it.

Dublin needs proper transport, but not government will plan more than 5 years in the future.

Have a look here and see how many transport plans were proposed and cancelled by successive governments

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_21

alinois

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446763#Comment_121446763

Everything that as mentioned above makes sense. I get it, we want to make public transportation more reliable so people do not have to depend on the car for commuting, but let's be realistic here: every plan currently on the table that has a chance of making an impact is aimed for 2040. With the so much growth in our economy and so many budget surpluses, we can't find a team in the world that develops these plans quicker? We have metro lines being built in Spain, Portugal and France bigger than the MetroLink being built in a quarter of the time.

Our plans for Bus Connects and Dart+ also sound promising, but the speed at which we're moving means that when these plans are executed and running, we'll already be on the limit of our capacity again.

On top of this, the plans for the Luas and every other major transport plan in the city are aimed at supporting areas of the city that don't depend on the M50 anyway, so I doubt it will have any impact.

If people cannot move around easily, housing estates outside of the M50 ring won't appeal to anyone as commutes are unbearable.

I just don't see things moving along at all, it's all taking way too much time. The estate has loads of cash, but what good is it if we can't use it to improve our quality of life? Our transportation network is an absolute joke and we're, by all means, a small capital with a huge budget.

The ambition of becoming a 15min city are ridiculous, Dublin has at the moment one of the worst commuting averages in Europe.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447073#Comment_121447073

Indeed...

https://youtu.be/pCzCJzwrB_c?si=U4RPs9D_mNybFHGy

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447073#Comment_121447073

I think the US has thoroughly debunked the notion that more lanes solves congestion.

The only thing that will really be a game changer is rail. And lots of it.

So we'll be fu*ked for decades to come because Irish governments are only in it for the here and now.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446020#Comment_121446020

Whether you want it or not that's the direction the island is heading in through births and immigration.

SuperBowserWorld

It's incredible to think that despite huge numbers of people working from home, we have gridlock. WTF.

People drive everywhere even when they could walk or get public transport.

And public transport is still **** here. Not enough buses. Should be a lot more smaller buses serving loads of different routes. Etc etc etc instead we have to dream about high speed rail blah blah blah. Keep it simple stupid government.

But instead we go promise 25 million for some climate action which is little more than water off a duck's arse.

magicbastarder

i've pointed this out before here; the larger luas trams have a capacity of 408 passengers. at peak of one tram every three minutes, that's a capacity of 8,160 passengers per hour in one direction.

take a four lane motorway (the M50 is three lanes plus auxiliary lane for most of it, so let's call that four). at a standard 2s gap between cars - 2s being the usual benchmark for minimum safe driving distance - the M50 has a capacity at any one point of 7,200 vehicles per hour.

i.e. in terms of capacity to carry people (given that the vast majority of cars carrying commuters on the M50 are single occupancy), the M50, running in a 'safe' mode is beaten by a standard tram.

Jinglejangle69

If your want to go from Belfast to Cork you have to use the M50.

Everything has to go through it.

Disaster.

alinois

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447478#Comment_121447478

Again, that makes a lot of sense and I'd love to rely on the Luas, but it took us 7 years to extend the green line by a couple of stops and the NTA are pledging 1 new Luas line in the next decade, 2 others in 20 years.

Could we not just build a plan that expands the Luas drastically and quickly? I'd expect at least 4 new lines in the next 10 years, its a fkin tram for god sakes, every major city in Europe has them, it shouldn't be hard to expand it quickly, especially when we don't lack the money to actually do it.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447478#Comment_121447478

Wow

TheSunIsShining

Personally, I reckon that the M50 is always going to be a mess in the absence of an underground system being delivered. Out of curiosity, are there any doodles that someone has put together to show what an actual underground in Dublin might look like? And twas an awful pity the Brits didn't leave one behind and, given how important Dublin was in the British empire at the start of the 20th century, I've often wondered how close they came to building one.

Edit: looks like it was discussed here before!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057593181/were-the-brits-planning-a-dublin-underground/p2

Another disaster of a decision was the cross city Luas not going underground. So typical of our ability to get things wrong. In fact, the green Luas should have gone underground right after the Charlemont stop by design day one, so that it would have been easy to convert to full metro as it should have been the old Harcourt line plus underground.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447471#Comment_121447471

Schools and childcare will be near people's offices. You've parents making commutes to the office and back each morning

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447471#Comment_121447471

"smaller buses" - the main cost of running a bus service is staff. Substantial standardisation keeps bus operating costs low. Running smaller buses doesn't save a huge amount of buses. The risk is that you would then complain that the buses are too small. :)

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447073#Comment_121447073

Can't wait for the extra lane

Ezeoul

If Bus Connects objective is to get people out of cars, they're kind of failing here:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ill-have-to-get-three-buses-each-way-now-dublin-college-students-say-bus-connects-changes-will-leave-them-stranded/a1824331975.html

“The changes to the service are extremely negatively impactful for not only me but other IADT students who rely on the bus service as the only transport provided to our areas. I’ll have to get three buses each way now. That’s six buses a day!,” Ms Doyle added.

“I currently don’t drive. I have my lessons completed and plan on trying to get a test as soon as possible,” she added.

G_R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447893#Comment_121447893

Dublin Commuter Coalition have debunked this - it's false.

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1728776184060674398

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444915#Comment_121444915

Buses will change nothing.

Like the cities you quoted, we need an underground system or go home.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446736#Comment_121446736

Buses share the road with cars and Luas.

There will be no signifincant change in public transport usage until we build an underground.

Its that simple, when you consider a rapidly growing population in County Dublin & PT that still takes longer to get to your destination vs a car journey.

And a PT journey is often unsafe.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447801#Comment_121447801

I meant 3 standard sizes: double decker, single decker, mini bus. Smaller buses can serve less used routes until demand is such that bigger buses are required. Also, they connect to other routes. There should be very little excuses to get in a car.

And lots more staff to drive lots more buses on lots more routes.

If we can't find or train the staff to drive buses then stop pretending we are a first world economy and admit we are a tax haven that only does short term planning.

Once we figure out how to do buses we can move onto more advanced things.

Being part of the EC we can ask our fellow EU countries how to do public transport, instead of re inventing the wheel and wasting a load of time and money.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447904#Comment_121447904

So is the 75 still running? I know kids from Tallaght who use it to get to college.

Trampas

Trains are to slow here also and one train stops the network stops. Other week a train broke down near Sandymount and stopped both lines as driver could check around the train. Trains out of heuston just crawling along. Plenty of padding on timetable.

It has taken to long to move on that not everyone works in the city that get on a bus.

G_R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447916#Comment_121447916

No, but new routes have been launched with overall more coverage and frequency. The L25 mostly replaced the 75

There are only 3 roads I'm 100% for

Cork/Limerick to get cars and HGV out of villages but they'll toll it and undo HGV removal (just like Fermoy)

Cork Northern Distributer and/or NRR and close the city centre to private traffic but have shuttle bus Park and Ride services at NRR junctions, and a LUAS connecting east/west rught through the city. Never have the balls to do that though

Basically what they should have done with M50. That horse has bolted. Needs urgent underground rail now and would take decades. Which means no Irish government will do it

celtic_oz

Maybe if we build a hospital serving over a quarter of Ireland’s population inside in D8

Should help matters.. it'll be expensive tho.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447582#Comment_121447582

It is a pity that the Brits didn't leave one behind, but its an even bigger pity that we just can't seem to build them ourselves.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121448545#Comment_121448545

100%. Especially when you look at comparable cities right across the continent....