What is being done to address the M50 problem?

alinois

Hi! I'm trying to understand what is currently planned to address the traffic problems in M50. As most of you probably know, with the significant growth in population and the expansion of housing in Dublin, the M50 has quickly become a huge problem. For a city this big, having one motorway is a problem and I don't really see any ambitions to ameliorate the situation, so I'm trying to understand, is there actually anything planned and for when?

bop1977

nothing is going to be done. ever. there is no planning or thinking outside the box and for that matter no thinking inside the box either.

no driver education to stop the crashes every morning and evening. same spots crashes like clockwork everyday.

no 24 public transport to offer an alternaitve. no public transport that goes across the city rather than in straight line into dublin. not everyone who lives around the city works in the city center.

Flinty997

The problem is not the size of the city, but the volume of cars. Hence the efforts to move people out of cars into alternative transport.

I assume you want a solution that enables you to use it more. You can see the problem there.

sparrowcar

Public transport, car pooling, hybrid working grants... basically anything to avoid building the DOOR which was pushed back beyond 2035 now.

alinois

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444599#Comment_121444599

Absolutely, the problem is the volume of cars on the same road. If there are no alternative roads that can help cars drive at a faster pace, then it's natural all cars will converge on the same road.

I think the problem is not me or other drivers wanting to use the M50 more, the problem is that there aren't any other alternatives for those working outside of the city center. I feel we should use some of that extra surplus money to build a outer motorway, that runs parallel to the M50 on the outside (because there is literally no space to do it on the inside), which would give those living in the outer areas of Dublin and alternative, and prevent cars from converging all on the same road.

This utopian idea that public transportation will solve a problem in the next 20 years is absolutely flawed and missed the point where if there aren't any roads for cars today, there won't be for public transportation and the problem will persist. We should learn a thing or two from larger more efficient cities in the world.

Flinty997

The idea you can solve traffic with more traffic (more roads) is what's flawed. That thinking is what you got where we are today.

The future of Dublin is London or LA. Go drive there and see if you think it can be fixed with more cars.

The problem is you're all trying to do the same journey at the same time, using the same form of transport. If you want innovation and solutions you need to change that mindset.

Nothing wrong with Building another orbital motorway but it will be full within 5 to 10 years. You'll be right back here again.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325350/what-is-being-done-to-address-the-m50-problem

The Eastern Bypass might take some pressure off.

I think realistically though if the Metro went as far as Sandyford it would help. Also another metro line from maybe Tallaght to somewhere Northside also with P&R.

People have been saying traffic has gotten way worse in Dublin recently.

At least Bus Connects is progressing.

idi na khuy hai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444599#Comment_121444599

He certainly can. It's called human progress being blocked by green-tinged Hitlers with more mouth than brains.

Quelle suprise.

Car drivers pay through the nose for what is a basic civil right.

Only to be told by rich little hipsters that we are not entitled to own our own car anymore without paying a small fortune for everything from road tax to fuel tax and the list just goes on and on.

Ordinary decent motorists have had enough. It's the same with our free speech being removed by Darth Varadkar and Mucky McEntee.

We aren't going to put up with it any more.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444959#Comment_121444959

No one's stopping you from sitting for hours on the M50 like lemmings. If that's working for you, keep doing it.

Pete_Cavan

A public and active transport bridge linking Blanch to LV is the only solution. Then run multiple BRT routes across it serving the various west Dublin suburbs. It would take thousands of short journeys off the M50 every day.

Closing a junction or two on the M50 would also be a good idea. Won't happen for a very long time but it would be worth that suggestion appearing in an official document just to see the hysterics to would cause.

ColemanY2K

A solution which would have an immediate positive affect would be to reduce the speed limit to 60. It would have an instant impact on congestion and could improve journey times as traffic would keep flowing. A variable speed limit with fixed speed cameras issuing fines would ensure compliance.

This of course is only a sticky plaster. Bus connects and other transport initiatives are what's needed in the medium to long term as the island heads towards a population of 10 million in the next few decades.

Flinty997

If people keep choosing a commute that's faster using a car, they will keep using a car. Granted a lot of it is unavoidable, I'm not blaming people for it, but that's what's happening.

If you were in London you'd be factoring public transport in your location and job choices far more than we do in Dublin. We don't have that mindset.

Yeah, housing crisis, Yadda Yadda I know.

It took decades to get into this situation. There are no quick fixes.

I avoid the M50 at peak. That's my solution.

Sam Russell

The M50 was widened a few short years ago, because it was congested. The Port tunnel was built to take HGVs from the city centre.

Now the M50 is congested, but the Metro North was canned despite having a Railway Order. I wonder if that was a mistake?

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445282#Comment_121445282

Sounds like a government more interested in votes than progress

dickdasr1234

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444959#Comment_121444959

Another riot?

magicbastarder

"According to the report annual average daily traffic for the M50 eFlow Toll in 2021 was 123,667 trips"

So approx 62k per day in each direction. Which is 43 per minute, or more than one car every six seconds in each lane - and that's the average including weekends and off-peak periods at night. People complain about the number of crashes on the M50 - and poor driver behaviour is definitely a significant factor - but the fact that the traffic levels are so high means crashes are baked in.

Jayuu

At this risk of sounding depressingly negative the current outlook is that there isn't much that can be done for the M50 from a peak time situation in the short term. The reality is that there is no one simple solution because of decades of underfunding on transport options and the geographical spread and size of Dublin in relation to the rest of the country in that time.

As for alternative car routes well, the Eastern Bypass would only be a minor temporary solution and it would take at least 15-20 years to implement at this point even if could ever get through planning from an environmental impact scenario. It would most likely end up in years of judicial litigations. DOOR (or LOOR) is not realistically much of a solution because most of the traffic on the M50 is local traffic and so while an outer motorway would take some capacity away from the M50 (maybe from a freight perspective) it wouldn't probably result in a huge reduction in peak time volumes.

An increase in public transport options would clearly help but as we've seen with BusConnects that's not as straightforward as it sounds given competing needs on limited road space for public and private transport. Alternative methods such as trams, metro, underground are decades away even if they were planned now. I also see no appetite for the kind of investment that would be required to bring Dublin up to a reasonable level of public transport option. Hybrid working models would help if more people could avail of them but not everybody is able to work from home.

Ultimately it would be better if we could contain the spread of Dublin and get more balanced regional development so that we're not bringing more and more people into the city and the greater Dublin area. That would require more road and rail building outside Dublin to complete a decent interconnected city network for the rest of the country. However I don't see that as a major objective in anybody's plans at the moment and again it's years away from completion even if it was the plan.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444600#Comment_121444600

That does nothing for traffic in Dublin. It would be or some benefit for the small amount of **long-distance** traffic that currently prefers to use the M50.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445642#Comment_121445642

Isn't that what the M50 was meant to do?

Dublin needed a metro going around and through the city 20 years ago. They got 2 unconnected light rail lines (connected years later) which were immediately oversubscribed, so they decided to add more branches onto those oversubscribed lines.

The LUAS completely torpedoes the government, with regards to public transport in an unusual way. It absolutely proved that a well provided PT option would be lapped up by the public and highlighted that the stick mentality has backfired with no alternatives

Charles Babbage

The M50 has been a public transport failure. From the road opened there should have been buses on it so that it you live in Clondalkin and get a job in Sandyford then you have the option of an effective bus from day one. This could have been combined with park and ride so that you could park on the other side of the city and take the bus over the toll bridge. None of this happened, many people work along the M50 but public transport largely ignores them or takes a multiple of the travel time.

Combine that with the ridiculous efforts to inhibit travel by any route other than the M50 and you have the chaos we now have.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445778#Comment_121445778

Government and NTA policy is to use more sticks than carrots to entice people out of their cars. Close roads, implement cycle lanes, one way systems, bus only times etc. All are valid approaches, but all are implemented with no alternative for motorists.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445778#Comment_121445778

That entire expansion, years back should have been a bus lane

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445876#Comment_121445876

There should have been bus interchange points at each junction where you can quickly change from a radial bus to the M50 express.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445938#Comment_121445938

Nah, let's add another choked car lane

McDougal2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058325350/what-is-being-done-to-address-the-m50-problem

You are joking "planned" This is Ireland we don't do planning. We'll object to planning all right to our deaths but to plan for anything that would solve a problem forget about it.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445170#Comment_121445170

Why on earth would we want to get to 10m?

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444939#Comment_121444939

How can I ask is bus connects helping the daily gridlock?

For me there are 2 ways to alleviate the madness that is the M50 gridlock

1. Build an outer motorway ring road ( didn’t FF propose this years ago? ) &
2. build an underground.
3. I have reason to drive down the quays 2-3 times a week ( for work ). I notice the bus lane is nearly as jammed as the traffic lane these days. I also see nearly every day cyclists in the bus lane creating more build up as the busses cannot pass them, even though the powers that be took away one traffic lane to facilitate cyclists ( I believe that there is no law compelling cyclists to use cycle lanes where available ). Sorry I deviated from the thread title.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446128#Comment_121446128

The intention of Bus Connects is to improve our bus transit system and increase ridership. This will absolutely alleviate traffic congestion.

I've no idea if they've been successful in their objective.

1) I'm not sure about an outer motorway but it's been suggested before.

2) Agree 100% about underground Metro. Should be planning a second line already. My suggestion is Tallaght to Poolbeg Peninsula, but maybe to Clongriffin is better. I'm not sure.

3) I don't use the quays but I imagine the buses are gridlocked regardless of bikes.

It's a complex problem overall.

Really the only solution is a proper Metro which will take decades at best.

The Eastern Bypass if it went underground might still be good idea, even though I know it's been mothballed.

It's difficult to know without data.

I'm sure they could model this, which would be interesting.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446128#Comment_121446128

In theory less people driving. No?

Before the bus lanes and the cycle the quays were still gridlocked. All that's really changed is it's improved for other road users.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446246#Comment_121446246

I used to think an outer orbital motorway was needed. These days I think it obviously still useful but I don't think it's going to have much impact on the M50.

We've made the country even more Dublin centric. Same with all cities. Sure urbanisation is world wide, but we've accelerated that in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121446763#Comment_121446763

Meh, Dublin's issue is sprawl and it's "iconic" skyline which must be preserved